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Author Topic: Bring Your Own Monster (8/12) — Game Over  (Read 16200 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #705 on: August 22, 2024, 09:11:16 pm »

That's really the best way to handle it. Confirming or denying anything about a mod error could lead to one faction or another gaining an advantage. It's best if only the players involved know anything happened, so nothing unintentional can be mod-confirmed any further.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

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Crystalizedmire

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #706 on: August 22, 2024, 09:16:41 pm »

I didnt have the energy for a full examination of 4mask so I am just going to respond to current events.

Okay, for the sake of politeness, let me rephrase.

If he is town, then his Day play is not furthering the town's objectives at all, and is not oriented towards doing so.

That's what I mean, in the most factual sense.

Max.  You able to consider and evaluate this observation?  Like, do you think it's true?  If not, can you help identify 3-5 pro-town 'day game' thingies that FoU's just not seeing?

Or, are you specifically and Maxily determined to avoid doing that this game if you can (i.e., FoU's right about that specific detail, for whatever reason you're doing that on purpose if you are, and maybe say why)?
Sure. No, I don't think it's true. I think I'm acting the same way as always. I think Fallacy is scum and is therefore refusing to admit that my drawing attention to his Typical Fallacy Scum Behavior on day 1 and not letting up about it since was a pro-town daygame action. I think Fallacy is also ignoring, maybe intentionally, the suspicion I've directed against Magma as well as my needling of the lurkers (about the fact that they won't be able to lurk through two whole consecutive days). To be totally fair, I think that a town Fallacy who has fallen down the rabbithole would also think "Magma is the ONLY ONE WHO BELIEVES ME, therefore Magma must be town and EVERYONE ELSE IS EVIL", and never consider that Magma might be opportunistically jumping on those misdirected suspicions, so failing to recognize my arguments against Magma as pro-town isn't inherently a scumtell. And yes, I even think it's possible that they might both be town. Although I'm not sure which I think is worse.

I definitely played a pretty low-key d1. That's not unusual for me. D1 is the time for listening patiently and collecting data. When, on top of that, I'm also developing a plan to try to get a fully surviving town two nights worth of information followed by two days worth of following up on that information, there's even less reason for me to make any waves. And of course I'll admit that when a profoundly scummy Fallacy starts screaming bloody murder about "me behaving the same way as I always do" and gins up a micro-wagon against me with, oops, flipped scum on it which I know is just going to fall apart if I ignore it like always, then yeah, it doesn't encourage me to want to engage either.

I think Fallacy, if you look closely, does not have a single iota of a case and is just enacting a strategy of making a lot of noise to drain my attention and interest, which has been largely successful. On the subject of not having a single iota of a case, don't forget that this started with Fallacy complaining about me leaving my vote on him... due to Fallacy starting the day off incredibly scummy... and not "using it to pressure anyone". You know, that thing I constantly say I never do because I believe in putting my vote where I mean it (which is usually the player I want to lynch). What else do you think I'm gonna do? I can pressure people just fine by telling them I don't trust them regardless of redtext.

Meanwhile, while Fallacy has been headless-chickening about me, at least a few people are sort of just there and I don't feel like the game has moved any closer to being solved if it ISN'T one of either 4mask/Fallacy/Magma or 4mask/Fallacy/hectoongeon (or 4mask/hectoongen + Fallacy/Magma, which I've thought a bit about). Yeah, it'd be really nice to address that and figure something out about how players like Oliverz and CrystalizedMire are interacting, but every time I flip back to this thread Fallacy's screaming at me again and I just. Don't. Care. The point of playing a game is to have fun.
Yeah, sorry for being absent. I do think your behaviour this game is just your usual town play. You mentioned that town!Fallacy would trust magma mater too. But I haven't seen any sign of Fallacy trusting Magma Mater. Please point me to specific posts.
shrugs. Max could be scum, but A: That would waste my action, and B: We're not dead yet. C: Might be my fault Max is a bit distant, though the switch off was somewhat scummy. Not enough on it's own to push for their lynch today.
Any mafioso with half a brain wouldn't use some random ability given to them that essentially says, "Use me if you're mafia, definitely NOT a trap!!"
If using it would out him, then not using it isn't any sort of evidence that he's town.

Unrelated, y'all really think the mafia have both an investigation-immune player, AND a godfather? Much more likely is that Fallacy is the miller analogue this game.
Umm.. Magma, who's the godfather in this analogy? Godfathers are a bit bastard.

Fallacy, how can we trust you in this scenario. Two people dying does not line up to the whimsical fearlessness you showed day 1. Your day 2 self was like night and day. Also that seems designed to get Imp's paranoia up in arms.
"Godfathers are a bit bastard" says the one who ran a game with a godfather and millerizer that wasnt labeled as "bastard"/j
Please explain which Fallacy you're talking about and how is it getting Imp's paranoia up? (Unless the statement is that Magma mater's post is stirring up paranoia)

Those were some fast wagons.
Fallacy of Urist wagon: Maximum Spin probably would've voted Fallacy regardless of whether or not toony voted. And tricmagic switches votes often according to toony. Though, I dont remember Tricmagic switching votss this often.
Oliverz wagon: Magma mater voted Oliverz earlier today. I will have to review the context that the vote was made in. Juicebox followed suit long after. Tricmagic quickly followed suit and so did vermillion. Of the three that voted in quick succesion, Vermillion is town leaving only Juicebox and Tricmagic of unknown alignment. Tricmagic's vote switches often so this means nothing. Juicebox voted shortly after tge Fallacy wagon started so I am voting Fallacy to see what they flip.
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Magma Mater

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #707 on: August 22, 2024, 10:04:15 pm »

A full claim from Oliverz would be nice to have. The lack of posting today has me thinking that he's mafia who's just given up.

Imp, I'm not sure what the limitations of your and Vermilion's roles are. But you might want to consider hiding your inspection results from now on, until you either get a red or have a full solve. If you're a full cop who can't die, then this game becomes a little trivial to win. Concealing your green checks can prevent the mafia from killing them as you get them.

Those were some fast wagons.
Fallacy of Urist wagon: Maximum Spin probably would've voted Fallacy regardless of whether or not toony voted. And tricmagic switches votes often according to toony. Though, I dont remember Tricmagic switching votss this often.
Oliverz wagon: Magma mater voted Oliverz earlier today. I will have to review the context that the vote was made in. Juicebox followed suit long after. Tricmagic quickly followed suit and so did vermillion. Of the three that voted in quick succesion, Vermillion is town leaving only Juicebox and Tricmagic of unknown alignment. Tricmagic's vote switches often so this means nothing. Juicebox voted shortly after tge Fallacy wagon started so I am voting Fallacy to see what they flip.
Amazing that you've managed to mention everyone while not giving any reads at all.
Why are you voting based on how juicebox voted?
Who do you think is mafia? Do you think Oliverz is mafia? Do you think that Fallacy is mafia?
You talk about votes here, what are your thoughts about the 4mask voters and the behaviour around that wagon?

Checking in, do people still have the meta town read on TricMagic? If the meta read is "paranoid about SK", then that's easy enough to fake and I'm concerned that the paranoia has seemingly disappeared since he started being town-read for it. Now, instead, he's talking about a second mafia team and such. I'm not saying that this is scummy, just checking in with people who know him since my townread is mostly based on that.

Okay so Fallacy continues to tunnel Max, which yeah at this point is really sus, but I think Oliverz is a better lynch today. I feel as though his D2 behavior is way more suspicious than Fallacy's obsession with Max.
Why?
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #708 on: August 22, 2024, 10:05:13 pm »

Right.

Looking back at 4mask's Day 1 posts:

Crystallized Mire is my first town lean.

Unlike some people (cough Spin cough), 4maskwolf is scum willing to indicate reads of people. Doesn't really say anything definitive about Spin and Max's relationship, though, given that day chat isn't a thing and as such scum are much less able to coordinate.

The more interesting question will be if 4mask's read on Mire changes.

Tric being weirdly paranoid about things is very classic town TricMagic. My only reservation is that he's specifically paranoid about an SK which is a fairly wolfy things to be worried about on D1 with no evidence of their existance.

Reasonable observations, or defending a partner? Not easy to say.

The one where you try to be webadict but don't succeed.

"Look, isn't it cool how I'm going to tie everything back to fear? Fear is cool, isn't it? So by extension, that means I'm cool. Cool and in control. And definitely not panicking, hahaha, wouldn't that be so funny good thing it isn't true help? Sorry, did I just say help? Must have been a slip of the tongue. I'm in control. Fear. I mean fear~."
Calling it now this is going to be the best quote of the game.

I'm actually dying over here.

This is still hilarious. And (within the reread) so far the only interaction, however tangential, Mask's had with Spin.

For what it’s worth I think Magma is town like my accuser was last game too, his takes are bad but not wolfy.

Reads Magma as town.

I have to wonder what his wolf-y game plan for the reads is, though.

Divert suspicion towards town? Divert suspicion away from his team? Just attempting to emulate town as best possible so he blends in well?

I try to avoid wasting my time pretending to have strong wolfreads D1. People like to lie to themselves that finding wolves D1 is reliably possible but all reads are just vibes. I prefer to find people I think are town and have collected a few. The problem with Bay12 games is that people post so little (and so many people have downright bizarre playstyles) that my usual town finding strategies aren’t turning up many results.

The worst part of it all is how much this makes sense from a town-point-of-view. For all that other perspectives are entirely possible.

I’ll be honest, from my perspective it reads almost exactly the same. You both accuse me of being wishy-washy, you both accuse me of taking the game seriously, you both accuse me of not having reads despite quoting posts where I definitively had reads, and you both saw one post you hated and then confhiased yourself into thinking the rest of my ISO was wolfy.

I don’t have wolf reads this game because my “wolf reads” last game were basically the only players who didn’t have anything going for them. And there’s, like, five? People I have literally no opinion of because they’ve posted so little of substance.

I think you’re more likely town than not. I think Tric is in his town range adjusted for a recent uptick in 3P paranoia. I think Imp is broadly townie even though I don’t like the whole “look at me I’m town” thing. I’d oppose any of those three eliminations today.

Also NQT you’re a nerd.

Granted, if you refuse to look for scum Day 1, you're also wasting your chance at using the execution properly. Similar to Max in that way, at least.

Come to think about it, I'm not sure Max has ever once said who he trusts during the Day. Finds me scummy, yes. Voted several other people, yes, but where's the town reads?

Okay lunchtime over I read up to about page 13.

Short version.

Fallacy is fine.

Vermillion is fine for now.

AP and the wrong Wolf both scream “newbie”, or at least coming from an insular community with an unusual playstyle, so they are going to be a nightmare for me to solve. If I had to pick one to shoot it would probably be Wolf because while AP’s read list is nonsense it’s at least something. If this were a game with ITAs I’d happily toss these two on a shotlist and never look back.

Juice I felt underwhelmed by but just made a big post I have to read. Will reevaluate after but my initial thoughts are “could be a wolf”.

The way Oliverz writes inflicts psychic damage on me so I’ll have to reread later to get an opinion.

CM is basically fin, I still think their initial posts aren’t wolfy.

Max has mastered the art of saying little while posting. While his post on Fallacy was hilarious there’s nothing there that screams “town” to me.

Eventually reads null on a lot of people. Which may or may not be a more generalizable tell. Downgraded CM to null.

At what point does an absence of towniness become scummy?

Maximum Spin

I would unironically take my own elimination over a no elim, at least then the rest of the town gets information.

Does vote Max, does not comment on it whatsoever.

At this point both me and Magma Mater were voting on the same wagon. Never updated his read on Magma from 'town' by this point.



Day 3 line break.

But I actually believe you because I know my role, and I'm kicking myself for not claiming the absolutely bizarre alignment fuckery that is my role, I assumed it wouldn't be relevant until I had a chance to act at which point it would be more useful to the town. Because now my claim is going to, at best, cause chaos.

I start the game as a miller and what alignment I peek as changes based on who I target with my day action or any night actions I gain with it. My day action only works on dead players so I have not gotten a chance to use it, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't work with outside gifted actions so unfortunately I can't be inspected right now to determine juicebox's alignment.

Extremely scummy in hindsight, but hindsight always makes things clear. I was reluctant to vote him because I'd see this sort of garbage as a viable town drawback ability.

I'd use it myself, even.

But 4mask seems like the sort of player who would claim this early if he was actually town.

If I understand the mech correctly exactly one of Vermillion or Oliverz is a wolf.

Escalates to indicating scumminess, finally, which he didn't do much of Day 1.

Of course, this is ability-based only.

Mask, Imp investigated me as town. Unless I am a bullet-proof kill-aware bodyguard, who also can read the night results of dead players, who is also a godfather, I'm fairly confirmed by now.
Right I blanked on that.

Then that means exactly Oliverz is a wolf, if we trust Imp's inspect.

I'm not entirely sure I trust Imp but I'm willing to treat the inspection as valid for now.

Escalates to a vote. First actually driven vote of the game, notably.

Good afternoon.

Y'all are gonna kill me regardless so I'm just gonna ignore y'all and solve for a while so you'll have a legacy to go off of.

I found this townie initially, but in retrospect it matches my own behavior from what was it, some BYOR or another where after receiving too much town pressure I just gave up on defense and said that as town if I can't defend myself I should just look for who's scummy. (I was scum in that game.)

It doesn't work. As town you're better off actually trying to defend yourself.

No matter how exhausting, frustrating, and demeaning it is defending yourself against a wagon of four players that's being orchestrated by scum.

That's the price of playing mafia, sometimes. You pay in pieces of your brain for the satisfaction of outwitting people just as clever as you are.

After that is the day-end posts. The problem of course is that he's scum. We can't read minds (unless you're Magma Mater as per Day 1 discussion), so unfortunately I have no way of knowing what depth of mind-games he's playing with the day-end read posts.

The most straightforwards would be scum-reading Max to taint my own attack against Max.

I think the analysis Wolf posted is valid even if he is scum. It doesn't magically make Spin town to have Wolf scum-read him and get voted out by him.



I still think it's Maximum Spin. Sorry. There are some play similarities between the two of them.

Maskwolf did vote Spin Day 1, but that was while the no-elimination wagon was already building up, which Spin then immediately hopped onto.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

Magma Mater

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #709 on: August 22, 2024, 10:37:42 pm »

Doing a full iso of a player seems like a waste of time if you're only going to comment on the dead guy's play instead of how it relates to other players? Not gonna lie your post seems like you're just trying to appear busy. For example this is useless, why even bother saying anything at all unless you're trying to just get the word count up:
Quote from: Fallacy
Reasonable observations, or defending a partner? Not easy to say.
Do what I did and make a list of players who have pairing interactions, anti-pairing interactions, and no interactions.

I can help you a bit by explaining why 4mask town-read me. It's not uncommon for scum to town-read an antagonist, in an attempt to appease them. He has to engage with me (it would be fairly odd to have a null read on someone who's calling you outed scum), but if he calls me scum then it further pits me against him. Calling me town is safer for him. I think there is also a bit of a psychological aspect to it, where he does know that the points I'm making against him are correct, so he feels that he would townread me if he were town.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #710 on: August 22, 2024, 11:05:49 pm »

So we got Vermilion on Oliverz and Crystal on FoU, I see.

FoU is double downing on Max, still don't like it.



@Crystal:
You seem to be voting FoU because Juicebox went for Oliverz?



Would really like Oliverz and Wolf to play the game so I can present-day read them.



That one vote from ToonyMan scares me more than the rest of yours combined.
Boo.
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ToonyMan

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #711 on: August 22, 2024, 11:21:39 pm »

My thoughts:

Don't think are mafia
Imp - got mafia killed
Vermilion - protected guy who got mafia killed

Probably not mafia
TricMagic - gonna help the mafia but not mafia
Magma Mater - gonna help the town probably

Crystal -
juicebox -

Wouldn't mind voting
Wolf - please show up
Oliverz - please show up
Max - kill die
FoU - die kill
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Imp

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (12/12) — Day Three: Daylight At Last
« Reply #712 on: August 22, 2024, 11:39:57 pm »

Night 1 i used masquerade (bus t1 with t2) on Magma Mater and Crystallizedmire

Night 2 i roleblocked Crystallizedmire

Wolfkey, 4mask's 'wrong wolf', hasn't managed to post yet today, though they did post 5 hours ago in another part of the forum.

I'm a little more comfortable with Toons than his prior slot-holders, he's both talking more and also more in a way I can potentially understand.

He claims he did something in addition to telling a joke when he targeted Juicebox.  That's not much, but it gives me hope.  Plus, I'm not a super-deadly vote-manip person this game, my vote alone does not elim - but maybe I can summon a Wolfkey with it!!

Clearly I gotta inspect Toons' slot at some point or otherwise learn more about it.  Sho'nuff, sometimes it is hard to live the way of the wise, huh.

I can't disagree with a FoU elim.  I can never inspect FoU and expect a result (I might try if FoU does end up 'counted', mech complexities are fun and that mebby could work; FoU maybe could ninja past becoming 'counted').  FoU told us a lot, it's all theoretically unprovable.  The claims don't feel fully-interlocking to me; there's a LOT of artistic interpretation in FoU's rolename if absolutely everything FoU told us is true.  The fake-feeling part is that cop claim.  Mr. False Hydra does NOT traditionally inspect others.  Gets more confident over time and messes up; gets too big and heavy and gets dragged (if too big to carry) to the next town to feast, while confusing everyone around so they don't know what they're doing - there's a huge difference between that weird face staring at you, and that weird face actually understanding you.  It's reaching into your mind to mess you up, not figure you out.  You're food, not a puzzle to solve.  False hydra traditionally doesn't show any interest in investigating more than 'where's the beef' and other forms of food.  And it makes others forget stuff, not itself remember.  It eats you, nobody remembers you were there.  That's... not cop-adjacent.  All the other claims feel reasonable though.  This could be town?  I'd be more resistant if I didn't watch FoU as superman and town literally bite the bullet and break teeth rather than be town's savior.  Town FoU might play like this, even with loads of lies that don't 'work well'.  I dunno.  C'm'ere you worm-eating too-big-for-your-own-good critter, you clearly need a hug.

Neat that Tric isn't voting FoU at the moment, I wonder if that means much.

I can't disagree with a Oliverz elim at this time.  A little uneasy about it, but there's loads of red flags.  I was uneasy about 4mask's elim too, I trust us-the-many to generally make better decisions than most of us alone do (mech sometimes trumps that; when I call a must-elim on someone who I'm sure is super-dangerous for mech reasons (like happened D1 of CYOS) I want to be seriously considered as maybe right even if nobody else is sure why.  But that's really rare.)  This slot would require an inspect from me unless Oliverz starts playing clearly really effectively townie; how can I say 'don't elim here' when I can't even say 'looks more townie than 4mask did'.

Magma is a 'what is this' still for me.  The skill with which that Extortion continues to be controlled and handled and the outcome of the detectable play and mech is gonna decide a lot for me.  I have a growing respect for Magma's playstyle and he's not obviously anti-town, he also hasn't obviously mishandled that extortion yet (I'm just aware he could be an antitown that also needs to handle antitowns as well as town to win, or could be something even stranger (that's fine; I only really try to mess up anti-town, the folk I need dead.  I'm happy to win with those I can, especially alive when possible)).
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For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Magma Mater

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #713 on: August 23, 2024, 12:17:05 am »

I'd also like to hear anything from Wolfkey. Although I do doubt that he's mafia. I'm sure 4mask would have realized that they could use the bus or roleblock to prevent themselves from getting their kill stopped a second time.

I'm a little more comfortable with Toons than his prior slot-holders, he's both talking more and also more in a way I can potentially understand.

He claims he did something in addition to telling a joke when he targeted Juicebox.  That's not much, but it gives me hope.
Yeah, he doused him!  :P
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Oliverz144

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #714 on: August 23, 2024, 03:51:09 am »

IMP,
I claimed what i did.
N1 i copped You.
N2 i forgot to act.
Are you purposefully forgetting this?
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Oliverz144

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #715 on: August 23, 2024, 04:58:55 am »

Btw, i wonder how CM still tries to scumpaint me for him not being able to steal a role from me yet fully accepts the wolfkey claim of roleblocks and redirects...
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Oliverz144

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #716 on: August 23, 2024, 05:04:56 am »

Of note, is there anyone who wants to confirm an ability of theirs? Omnipresent is random but quite useful. If I targeted 4mask, I had a 50/50 shot of just outright finding their mafiakill.

Of note, that might confirm Wolfkey, or at least bump them way down. Despite the lack of posts. That leaves Oliver and Magma I think?
We've also got juicebox and Anime, but one has taken a leave of absence.

Looking at 4mask's final will, it's not all that conclusive. I don't believe Magma was teamed with 4mask.

I suppose in the vein of Imp, I'd ask Oliver and Juice to build a case on why the other is mafia. Or don't and continue to lurk. Is web's lurkertracker avalible this game?
I don't think i want to randomly attack and scumpush somebody ive barely interacted with, especially if i don't scumread them.
Dear TM, i am not some barking Dog you can unleash on somebody for the sake of exterminating d4 discussion with an unprovoked thunderdome.
TrigMagic
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Oliverz144

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #717 on: August 23, 2024, 05:20:43 am »

Of note, if you plan to investigate me/max, would suggest Max. Sure I could be an SK, but my whole thing on giving that to Max was a gamble.
Either or is fine even if I think there are better targets.
"oh no, dont investigate me!!!
its totally irrational and -EV for town!!"

Summed up that TrigMagic post for you. Unbelievable how he was flying under the radar.
Just another point into the scumminess fund of TM
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Oliverz144

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (12/12) — Day One: Assembly of the Menagerie
« Reply #718 on: August 23, 2024, 05:52:58 am »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
huge Imp post.
First of all, the Hector post was a fish, a reaction fish to be exact, as i later wrote to somebody else.
Imagine just joining into thread, i obviously try to shock them, maybe they are arsonist as you projected and are about to crumble?
The Votecount directly after my post sadly killed all those dreams and hopes.

About my night action, my investigation cop was a one shot. I have directly confirmed you town =)
i also wonder how few Vermillion talks about me, even tho they know so much. What happened?
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TricMagic

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Re: Bring Your Own Monster (11/12) — Night Three: Psych, It's Day Four
« Reply #719 on: August 23, 2024, 08:21:01 am »

Oliver, the lack of night 2 result is the nail that will seal your coffin. If someone has a gun they are welcome to kill me. I'd rather they not, but Jim did.

T(oony)m(an) fair on the bastardish bits in my non-labeled games? But more the fact that Mind Control is something Imp as the Butler of Butlers had to deal with. Eh..

That's not the sort of response I'd expect Oliver. Well, unless you and Fal are teamed so you don't want any sort of discussion. Easier to call me the crazy one than potentially get the vote back on Fal from participating.
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