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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - GAME OVER! SCUM WIN!  (Read 59623 times)

Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #270 on: June 09, 2014, 09:11:18 am »

Extend, post coming up.
Being sick + depressed + :( ==  :'(
Sorry for being that one IC x_x
Who's like, inactive. But I'm active :x
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #271 on: June 09, 2014, 01:31:08 pm »

TheDarkStar: You seem scummy to me. Please give the reasons for the following:
1. You avoided doing much for the first 6 days you were playing. By looking at your forum profile I can see that you were quite active posting on other things at the time.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
2. Your posts since have been mostly defense.

Also, Fniff was fairly inactive. His posts were either
Oh hey, I'm here, don't worry.
type statements, responses to others, or vague theory about not voting for someone without sufficient evidence. He spent more effort on theorizing on when not to vote for someone than he did on how to actually identify scum. This seems scummy because the mafia benefits by convincing other players to doubt. He was requested to ask questions by tn and Jack A T and never did. I know you don't have any control over that, but since your are playing his slot, it's a point against you.

1. It's usual for me to not do much on Day 1 in games.

Post on the 30th:

Question Post: I had RL going on, and two of those days were during the night. Also, see what I said above. Also, have you posted your reads yet? Even if Kansa has posted them, I want to see your reads.

What are examples of my defensive posting? You can say whatever you want, but it is useless unless you include evidence.

Yes, Fniff was inactive. That's why he requested replacement - he didn't think he could spend enough time playing this.

PTDFun: Why didn't you vote for me? Also, Kansa was even less active than me. Why do you think that Fniff's inaction is more significant than Kansa's inaction?

MOWE:

Sorry for this, but I'm asking for replacement. I will be unable to post for a month or two.

Is this four replacements so far?
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Teneb

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #272 on: June 09, 2014, 05:24:21 pm »

Extend

Just got an internship and am quite tired. I'll try to post later after resting a bit.
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LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #273 on: June 09, 2014, 05:49:18 pm »

No time, Extend as well.
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PTDfun

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #274 on: June 09, 2014, 05:50:55 pm »

This question still needs answering. If TheDarkStar doesn't want to answer, then I'll refer it to his replacement.
TheDarkStar and Tiruin:
What do you think the best way to play mafia (as in scum roles) is?
I know it's a bit open ended. Answer however you would like. I am asking about strategy. Assuming you are town, it will be helpful for scum hunting. Assuming you are scum, it may also be helpful for scum hunting.

Jack A T and TheDarkStar:
PTDFun: A quick question with regard to your attack on TheDarkStar: When looking at his early inactivity, did you take into account the fact that 2 of those 6 days were during the night, when nobody could post?
That is a good point that I did not take into account.

Extend, post coming up.
Being sick + depressed + :( ==  :'(
Sorry for being that one IC x_x
Who's like, inactive. But I'm active :x
Tiruin: I am sorry that you have been sick and depressed, and that RL has been a pain in your butt the past few weeks. (To be clear, I am being entirely genuine.) With that said, you might want to get a replacement rather than trying to juggle this game (a lesser obligation) with things in RL that have consequences. I'm new, so I don't know how that works for an IC, but it's worth considering and completely acceptable.

TheDarkStar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My reads:

LARD: Town leaning.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What do you think of Deathsword? He and Scripten have arguably been as lurky as Kansa.

Deathsword: Null to slightly scummy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jack A T: There's a lot of content to go through. The fact that Jack A T is an IC makes it harder for me. Null read.
If that is not an option, then at least answer this: What possible motives are there for killing tn5421 other than avoiding being blocked?
A few posts back, in a spoiler addressed to TheDarkStar (spoilers being a useful way to organize posts.  Do read spoilers not addressed to you.  It's worthwhile.), I listed a few of the many, many possibilities.
I'm having trouble finding the spoiler addressed to TheDarkStar you mention. Would you mind linking to it or giving me the reference number?

I need to take a break. I'll EBWOP my read of RangerCado later tonight.
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PTDfun

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #275 on: June 09, 2014, 05:53:02 pm »

EBWOP: lurkiness* (stupid spelling)
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #276 on: June 09, 2014, 08:58:10 pm »

This question still needs answering. If TheDarkStar doesn't want to answer, then I'll refer it to his replacement.
TheDarkStar and Tiruin:
What do you think the best way to play mafia (as in scum roles) is?
I know it's a bit open ended. Answer however you would like. I am asking about strategy. Assuming you are town, it will be helpful for scum hunting. Assuming you are scum, it may also be helpful for scum hunting.


TheDarkStar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote]

1. The best way to play Mafia is exactly like town in the day, except for those times when you push someone towards lynching who is innocent. During the night, try to kill those people who either have dangerous power roles or who are good players. Sometimes it makes sense to kill people who suspect you; sometimes it doesn't. It all depends on what people will be left.

2. You have an odd way to count. Why do you call my main question post something other than offensive? If you include that important one (especially what I ask the people I suspect), I have about as many offensive posts as defensive ones. Also, it doesn't have to end in a question mark to demand a response. Why did you make it seem like I was being much more defensive than I was?

3. People tend not to have too much control over some things in RL - if he doesn't have time, he doesn't have time. Why do you see this as scummy?

4. It doesn't matter if someone else is using that logic - if it's a bad argument, it's a bad argument. At this point, your argument against me is that I'm defensive - but that isn't all that true, despite the way that you are portraying things.

5. I did not think Jack A T and RangerCado were scum; I thought they (along with others) were scummy. It wasn't as much specific things as the general feel I got from reading things; my results from reading things in detail are already posted. I've said this several times; why do you ask me again?
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it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now

Silthuri

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #277 on: June 09, 2014, 09:36:29 pm »

Votecount:
  • LARD:
  • TheDarkStar: Jack A T (1)
  • Deathsword:
  • RangerCado: TheDarkStar (1)
  • PTDfun: LARD (1)
  • Jack A T:
  • Tiruin:

Not voting: PTDfun, Deathsword, RangerCado, Tiruin

Day two has been extended and will end Wednesday at 10 pm EST.

There are no more extends available today.

TheDarkStar has requested replacement!
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PTDfun

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #278 on: June 10, 2014, 03:23:52 am »

Final read.
RangerCado: Town lean.
He has been consistently inquisitive to other players while being scattershot in their topics. The former gives credibility that he is actually trying to figure things out. The latter gives credibility that he has no prior agenda.

Jack A T and RangerCado:
*RangerCado: Part of both major lynch pushes in day 1.  After initially FoSing tn5421 for vague reasons largely relating to tn's poor playstyle, what finally got RangerCado to vote for him was tn's breakdown and decision to let himself die.  Of all of tn's attackers, Cado had the least reason to attack.  However, RangerCado withdrew soon after I did, for much the same reason that I did.

RangerCado then started the main push against borno.  The focus was on borno's failure to do much beyond attacking tn5421.  Borno didn't do much to get rid of that.

Overall: slight scum lean, primarily gut-based.  I await that more substantial post he's promised.
I read what follows this in the thread, but I couldn't see if this ^ actually got resolved, is currently being resolved, or has been passed over. I'm also interested in the more substantial post (which may already be written somewhere). Thanks for understanding that I'm trying.
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LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #279 on: June 10, 2014, 09:20:48 am »

Hey PTDfun, nice to see you here.
Alright, in a side note Jack about this
LARD: If you had just replaced in, and had only read early posts in the thread, do you think you would be able or willing to post anything long and detailed about the game?
It was simply a pressure vote to get the game moving and to get you (PTDfun) more invested in the game.  Now that you are here, I have a whole new list of questions.

Why did you ask that question about the best way to play scum?  Was the scum IC not responding in mafia chat?:P  Seriously, it just seems like you're asking how you should play scum.  As I said though, it's not a bad piece of evidence against you because if you were scum, you would just ask talk in scumchat.

Could you state your reasons for accusing TDS that haven't been said by the other players, or more specifically, Jack?

When you give your reads, the one you are least suspicious of, it seems, is me. Now to me that seems like you are buddying me. You're just making yourself seem more suspicious.

However, earlier I was suspicious of TDS, and if we reach day end with a tie, then I would not be adverse to changing my vote to him to avoid it. I want to hear what PTD has to say about this yet.

As for reads on Deathsword, I just don't have one. He's not active enough. I couldn't say one way or the other.
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Jack A T

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #280 on: June 10, 2014, 01:12:18 pm »

A few posts back, in a spoiler addressed to TheDarkStar (spoilers being a useful way to organize posts.  Do read spoilers not addressed to you.  It's worthwhile.), I listed a few of the many, many possibilities.
I'm having trouble finding the spoiler addressed to TheDarkStar you mention. Would you mind linking to it or giving me the reference number?
PTDfun: The list I referred to is the quote immediately after the material you quoted.  Clicking on the timestamp for that quote would lead you to the post (link here) the quote was from.
I read what follows this in the thread, but I couldn't see if this ^ actually got resolved, is currently being resolved, or has been passed over. I'm also interested in the more substantial post (which may already be written somewhere). Thanks for understanding that I'm trying.
The substantial post Cado promised was this.  In addition, my read of Cado has changed little: still slightly off, primarily gut.

Questions:
*I noticed in your reads that you say you like several of LARD's posts.  It doesn't help much to just say you like certain posts.  Why do you like the ones you like?
*You seem comfortable using Fniff's low activity against TheDarkStar.  Considering Fniff quit due to finding the game too advanced for him, is Fniff's inactivity worth all that much against TheDarkStar?

TheDarkStar: Sad to see you have to leave.  While you're still here, and still posting, and still responding to attacks and questions (with a certain consistent notable omission), would you be so kind to respond to mine and the associated questions, including the important questions from the start of the day about your current vote?

When you give your reads, the one you are least suspicious of, it seems, is me. Now to me that seems like you are buddying me. You're just making yourself seem more suspicious.
LARD: Can you give more detail here?  What makes it come off as buddying?

Regarding Fniff and his replacement request: Fniff replaced not due to real life/lacking time to play, but due to finding the game too advanced.

MyOwnWorstEnemy: When we need a replacement, please indicate that in the thread title.
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Jack A T

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #281 on: June 10, 2014, 01:14:52 pm »

Oh, and MyOwnWorstEnemy: Please warn RangerCado.

RangerCado: You've been gone for quite some time now.  When you get back, please give your opinions of each of the cases advanced today.
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #282 on: June 10, 2014, 05:37:39 pm »

LARD: Town leaning.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He doesn't elaborate any more than to say that he likes my points.  While I like that somebody appreciates my points, if that somebody is mafia it changes things a bit.  I feel like he is just trying to make me like him.  And I do, but I still think he's probably mafia.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #283 on: June 10, 2014, 07:39:55 pm »

Continued

Sorry for the wait :-[
Tiruin: I am sorry that you have been sick and depressed, and that RL has been a pain in your butt the past few weeks. (To be clear, I am being entirely genuine.) With that said, you might want to get a replacement rather than trying to juggle this game (a lesser obligation) with things in RL that have consequences. I'm new, so I don't know how that works for an IC, but it's worth considering and completely acceptable.
I'm not aiming for a replacement because...I know I can do this--the game has enough replacements queued already (though they are technically still playing, only until they are confirmed replaced).




Borno is lynched and pops up Town. Tn is then killed.
While it is conventional wisdom to not deliberate on an NK of this matter--it is useful to think about and ponder why, though. Tracing how the now-cleared suspects interacted and their value to people would give a hint as to what the cause for murder was, though it would be not good to dwell on it too much.

Now if any of them were scum, however, then value could be given more to their words--scum either wish to isolate themselves from their partners, or they work together with their partners and provide a vague yet apparent smokescreen now that the cover is up. The tip on these situations is to see the minute details instead of what general tips I'm giving right now and work from there.

That was... unexpected.
Point like this.
Why is it unexpected TDS? What did you think of them?

Tiruin:
What do you think of yesterday's events? What do you vote now? What are your reads?
Currently I'd...honestly abstain from voting at the moment. Really bad stuffs as of late and morale is at an all time low that I haven't focused much here, so rather I'd look back on my notes and check--who seems too be aggressive in such a way that it doesn't need aggression? Maybe that person is pushing for a slip all too eagerly? Who seems to be using brevity in such a way that there is too general a viewpoint on them to glean any pertinent information? Maybe there either is something with how their viewpoint is, or they're using a logical smokescreen.

As of yesterday's event at the time of this question--my reads still stay the same (tn [deceased] had a null read, yet I was a bit curious about how he saw things. There was that tinge of self-centric focus, but he was also contemplative in countering borno. Cado has a null-towny read given how he words his posts, choosing more to be sincerely altruistic and transparent [given the context of such posts] rather than hide or be secretive. Unsure on Kansa given lack of read into her (his?) posts. But I am very ashamed I couldn't do anything about her or...help her at all. Jack is null/towny given the amount of context he's giving, and that he's carrying the IC team and I'm dead weight >_>. Tiruin would be saying Tiruin is town but the silly thing is, it's the same thing she's say if she was scum, in most general situations. So my read on myself should best be discerned by you peoples. :v)


LARD
Tiruin: Same as Jack but vice versa.  Also moderate town. But I can't read experienced players very well. I would like to see her opinions on Jack.
What's holding you back from reading experience? Any details on that?

Jack and Tiruin As the IC's I would like to see you two go head to head because it would be instructive and interesting. If one of you is scum then I would like to know sooner rather than later because later you will be rallying the town to attack itself because that's what good scum does.

If that is not an option, then at least answer this: What possible motives are there for killing tn5421 other than avoiding being blocked?
Ok? So let's say I'm scum--what can you infer from my words since before?
Note: Nobody would declaim themselves directly as scum--while it may be done in jest, its...more of cheap play. >.> Hard to descrbe.
Query on the orange part: Yes that's what good scum does, so take in my first sentence here--what if one of us was scum? What would you--or possibly the rest of you who aren't ICs, do?

Also possible motives? I have no idea where you got that notion of avoiding being blocked (where did you get that idea?) but possibly to narrow down...townies. :v
I have no idea, sincerely. If I was scum, I'd delegate my choice to my partner (though obviously giving my opinion on the matter) but let them choose--because it would be teaching them how to make a decision. Like that ol' adage of teaching a man how to fish as opposed to giving them fish only.


MOWE is bad mod... :(
MOWE is good mod D:<
Tiruin is bad mod! She can't even get her last BM flavor up because worries! >_<
MOWE is good mod :<


PTDfun
TheDarkStar and Tiruin: What do you think the best way to play mafia (as in scum roles) is?
Do not rely on the role and instead define the role by your own playstyle and your own scumhunting. The role is like a crutch or a support to your goal, but it does not define how you play. (unless you're a jester, but that ain't mafia :v)
Like a poisoner--you hit a guy at night, they die next...time tmorrow after day but before night. So you plan in advance who to pick, and 'scumhunt' on the others that aren't your target--usually said target is the one you'd choose as a 'safecard' or someone you don't necessarily suspect but isn't Mafia so you won't kill your own people. :v

Tiruin: I know that RL keeps getting in the way, but I also think you are slightly on the scummy side. Difficulties in RL serve as legitimate grounds for lurking (which benefit the mafia). You have managed to make a few posts, but I did not find them to contribute much.
Valid, though it is wrong.
Assuming someone would use RL as a scapegoat is a...universal NO. in Mafia. It is disgust on the player, the principle, the role and the spirit of the game.

The normal (and yet unspoken) rule regarding people asking for a replacement is: Assume it is for legitimate reasons despite ANYTHING the player acts in game (even if said player is an immature jerk, leave it be...at least they have the...dignity to ask for a replacement).
If the player states RL as the reason--then it should be assumed that RL is giving heck for delaying in playing a game. However, notes of concern should also be posted so in such a case that RL is too much--the player would still know people care [like in this game :-[]

I'd ask what exactly isn't it contributing? Yes, I agree that it isn't in some ways, but what.../isn't\?
On that note: No, an IC or a player [IC is just a tag for me :v] will not use RL as grounds for lurking--that's just scummy, in out-of-mafia context of the word.
HOWEVER, lurking in the case of posting everywhere else? That is legitimate grounds for suspicion--howeve,r should be followed up by a query at first, if ever the case happens.




Will try geting a post up before Thursday end. I can make it.
...What is EST in regard to GMT?
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Jack A T

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #284 on: June 10, 2014, 07:45:26 pm »

Quick post:
Tiruin: Good to see you here again.

EST is the default forum time zone: GMT-5.
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.
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