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Author Topic: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - GAME OVER! SCUM WIN!  (Read 60015 times)

Kansa

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #225 on: May 30, 2014, 05:04:47 am »

Sorry for not posting in the last couple of days, I'm sad to see people leaving

To Tiriun: Most confusing thing would probably be finding the right questions to ask people to ascertain their scumminess.

To borno: Why did you claim it was a pressure vote to get tn5421 to defend when you do believe he was actually scum?
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borno

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #226 on: May 30, 2014, 06:06:34 am »

tn5421:
Hey, tn5421 finally got up and did something for once! Horray for him!
Quote
Firstly, he states that Jack A T is suspicious for giving IC advice. Not a case on its own, but gives early insight into tn5421's aggressive, trouble-brewing nature.

Aggression isn't alignment indicative.  His advice was essentially "Walk off the cliff; you don't fall down".
Actually, it is. There's nothing wrong with pursuing someone aggressively, but when you fire at anyone and everyone for anything and everything, usually you're scum.
Quote
Then he attacks me for asking a hypothetical question. This is where I start to think that he is scum, as he once again all he is doing is trying to stir up trouble with a nonsensical question.

What did you want me to do, lurk the whole game?

No. But you did that anyway, what with your refusal to respond to me. Also, how is the solution to not making baseless attacks on everyone lurking? Enlighten me, please.
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Then, when Jack A T votes him for his behaviour, he suddenly just gives up and refuses to make any sort of defence.

I don't see how this is relevant.
It's pretty relevant. Not only is refusing to defend yourself annoying to your attackers, it's also incredibly scummy.
Quote
He then gets really mad at the three people voting him, and again refuses to defend himself-except with a single hypocritical statement and insults to the people attacking him.

Also, apparently being on the verge of being lynched is 'the perfectly acceptable' for him.

I love how you distort what I said here.  YOUR hypocrisy and that of every other person I've played with is fucking sickening.  You advocate 'playing aggressively' and then jump on someone that actually takes your advice.
Aggressively, not overly-aggressively. And how am I distorting your words? What I've written all came out of your mouth.
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Again, more insults and a baseless accusation that I'm scum. And apparently my hypothetical question wasn't a question but instead a statement. Huh. Also, more refusing to defend himself.

Lying is a universal scumtell, and you've lied more than once over the past game-day.
Please tell me where exactly I have lied today, because I can't remember lying myself.
Quote
Once again refuses to defend himself, and claims that nothing he says will be believed until he dies.

Of course it won't, because you'll keep scumpainting me until I flip town.
You've tunneled me so hard that everyone has noticed it by now.
No, I'll keep on attacking you until you prove that you're town. Also, I don't know where all of these tunneling claims came from. There has just been little activity, and subsequently nothing I've found scummy.
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It's not like he's even innovating at all, this is a post from him I've seen dozens of times: Nothing but insulting and baseless accusations.

That requires effort that I wasn't willing to make.  Besides, your case by this point is extremely circumstantial at best.
You know that laziness is a scumtell, right? Why exactly weren't you willing to make the effort? And how is my case circumstantial?
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Says that he refuses to read my post. That explains a lot, including why he got negative attention in the first case: The refusal to read posts properly. He also does his usual act of portraying himself as a poor, alone townie who has everything they say turned against him.

Because that's exactly what you're doing, trying to turn almost literally every word I have typed in this game against me.
If you did nothing scummy, then nothing would be turned against you. And don't be ridiculous. If everything you said had been turned against you, then you would have been lynched by now.
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Apparently tn5421 can dictate what I think, and so refuses to defend more because I have already decided that he's guilty. What he fails to realise is that, by now, this is the major reason why I'm voting him in the first place.

No, you aren't voting me because the rest of the players caught on to your attempted train and told you to fuck off.

What? I am voting you. What are you talking about?
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More pathetic excuses. He claims that scumtells are all intentional and asks why he would drop one on purpose.

Where did I say my 'scumtells' were intentional, liar?
@Everyone: If I were scum, why would I draw your attention and paint a target on myself?
The quoted bit. You ask why you would draw attention and paint a target on yourself, as if you drew the attention on purpose and not by dropping scumtells.
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He doesn't post anything meaningful for a while, but then this. He's going to throw the game because he doesn't really care about its outcome in any case. Honestly, if he is town then this is the worst town play I've seen.

Stop appealing to emotion.  It's making you look like a loser.  I don't even understand how this qualifies as a case, since you don't have enough evidence to convince water that it is wet.
I'm sorry, but I'm appealing to emotion? The one reason that people keep stating as why they aren't voting you is because apparently you seem to be a 'confused, lost townie'. I'm not the one appealing to emotion; It's you.
Kansa:
To borno: Why did you claim it was a pressure vote to get tn5421 to defend when you do believe he was actually scum?
Because he was refusing to defend himself, and so I left my vote on him as a pressure vote. Since almost a whole day had passed and he still was refusing to defend himself, it transformed back into a lynch vote.
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LARD

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #227 on: May 30, 2014, 09:18:05 am »

For one thing borno, when I say I you seem to me to be a quite experienced scum player, I can hardly be wrong, can I? But semantics aside, can I ask you a question pertaining to your tirade against tn5421? You say you are quite confident that he is scum. Judging on people's behavior towards him, who do you think is the scum buddy? 
      It seems to me that the whole of the recent game has been you two fighting, and making it easier for the buddy to hide.

As for your case against him, I don't think very many of the points are valid, as I have said.  He is playing like a jumpy new player who gets depressed when the tide turns against him. He could be scum, but I don't think any of his behaviors are specific scum tells in a new player.


 Your most suspicious behavior to me has been to tunnel on one guy and ignore peoples points in his favor. The fact that the guy you are tunneling on seems to be a fairly easy target is also suspicious.  D1 is a good place to set up interactions between players so that later we can look back and prod people about them.  Your only interactions will have been with a dead guy if you succeed in getting him lynched.  This will give us no information about you for other days except to look at what you did to a lynched guy. 

The reason defensiveness is a tell for you and not tn5421 is because he is fairly new.  I don't gauge all people and their behaviors the same.  You seem to have played here before and therefore you will be held to the standards of normal scumtells. Read a bit of supercharazad in King maker IV and that should explain that if he could be town and spazzing like that, then tn5421, who is certainly not defensive in the same degree but is hauntingly familiar (I'm sorry) will have no problem excusing his behavior. I just think a scum player would do better than that because they can get private advice from scumbuddy and IC. 
By the way, that FOS you put on me is just not a convincing thing for a town to do. If I am suspicious, then tell me why. It can't be just that I made an incoherent accusation. (which I don't believe I did)



For other players
Tiruin: what is your opinion on this conflict and who could be a likely scumbuddy?
Jack A T: Why are you not going for tn5421?
Those not voting: Why not?


As for my take, the scumbuddy is probably hidden in those few we haven't heard from recently. This kind of bothers me. If a scumbuddy is under fire, I think a scum would probably be active in either bussing or trying to get buddy off the hook.
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Silthuri

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #228 on: May 30, 2014, 01:58:15 pm »

Votecount:
  • LARD:
  • borno: tn5421, RangerCado, LARD, Jack A T (4)
  • TheDarkStar:
  • Deathsword:
  • tn5421: borno (1)
  • RangerCado:
  • Kansa:
  • Jack A T:
  • Tiruin:

Not voting: Tiruin, Kansa, Deathsword, TheDarkStar

Day ends today at 7 pm EST (4 hours from now)
There are no more extends available for today.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #229 on: May 30, 2014, 02:27:04 pm »

Day ends today at 7 pm EST (4 hours from now)
There are no more extends available for today.

...
><

I am not voting for anyone today--my reads on tn > borno, however on the point on borno, I say that I'm suitably biased against seeing him as scum in that manner [scummy, yeah, but there's something off about him being off, y'know?]
I may be judging due to prior experience with him or that, while I feel his motive or mode of attack may be erring on one side or another-moving too fast or too quick to judge, there is that something in how he makes his arguments that persuade me that he isn't scum--meaning the attitude of the person being scum; the attitude that I often see in scum players (quick to reason, quick to judge, compounding on error and riding on what makes one scummy//acting the aggressive interrogator) while similar to what I see in him, do not...match.

PFP Sorry for that :x Net still is slow and argh. One whole (half) other post lost.
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Tiruin

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #230 on: May 30, 2014, 02:39:13 pm »

EBWOP: Said pinion was formed since my last post--honestly have not read proceeding posts from thereon out
I judged tn on the basis and method of how he argues--rather not on the emotional aspects attached to it, and so have I done the same on borno in that matter.

Disclaimer: Writing this at 3am and currently subsisting on a natural...'high' [heightened state of awareness] possibly due to being up at this time.



For other players
Tiruin: what is your opinion on this conflict and who could be a likely scumbuddy?
Opinion stated above, however in the likelihood that my intuition is wrong and one of them is scum, then I've to paint a possible other as a distancer given how both seem individualistic in their modes of acting and how they seem...like vigilantes(?), like...well, loners(?). In how they act.
Now to expressively answer that as a guess on the scumbuddy--I believe it is too early to forma  conclusion; I'd be basing my ideas on empirical data at the moment, and I do not believe that, in this context rather, the time would aid in showing who would be a special scumbuddy to me (I mean sure I'd be going after who I second most suspect is scum, but given how I see people...eeyeah the radar isn't working. Mostly all players are playing quite well in regard to trust/distrust/logical application, so I've to switch from conventional reasoning on my part to guess.)


Also Hi LARD long time no see :))


Sorry for not posting in the last couple of days, I'm sad to see people leaving

To Tiriun: Most confusing thing would probably be finding the right questions to ask people to ascertain their scumminess.

To borno: Why did you claim it was a pressure vote to get tn5421 to defend when you do believe he was actually scum?
Hi too Kansa, nice to see you around! :)
...Mmm, most confusing is to make a check to ascertain mm?

What do you believe regarding the question system--how would you find scum using whatever tools you had on you? What method of communication would you employ?




Tiruin: No idea what to make of her, just massive piles of post to sift through.  My last game I tried to lead a lynch on her only to find she wasn't scum. Such is life.  I generally get reads on people when they start specifying their attacks.
Do note: My posts are limited to those giant piles of post and smaller posts containing questions :P
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #231 on: May 30, 2014, 03:06:41 pm »

Well, it looks like I took too long to get around to looking at the four people I mentioned in detail. Because of the lack of time, I'll delay finishing looking at stuff until tonight, since I'll be able to see the lynch results. If I die tonight, though, take a look in detail at the three remaining people.
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Kansa

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #232 on: May 30, 2014, 03:09:38 pm »

To LARD: Honestly because I'm not entirely sure who is and who isn't mafia at this point, I probably should have cast a vote earlier on to add pressure to somebody but as we are really close to the end now it wouldn't do anything.

To Tiruin: Nice to see you around too :)

I would probably wait for them to slip up and contradict something or do something that makes them seem suspicious, I'm not really sure what questions to ask to make them slip up though. As for the actual method of that I would probably as them a question to clarify the part that contradicted something else or made them suspicious in my eyes.
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Silthuri

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day One
« Reply #233 on: May 30, 2014, 06:05:45 pm »

The vampires closed in around borno.

"It's tn!" He shouted.

"Liar..." they hissed, fangs bared. No matter what he said, they would not believe him. He fought them until he had breathed his last breath.

When the rush of the vampires' rage faded, they searched his body for clues. They found nothing incriminating and knew they'd killed an innocent. Their hearts heavy with regret and sadness, the vampires retired to their cells for the day.


borno has been lynched! He was a vanilla townie!

Night one has begun and will end on Monday, June 2 at 7 pm EST or whenever I recieve all actions.

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Silthuri

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #234 on: June 02, 2014, 09:09:54 pm »

The vampires awakened the next night to find tn dead in his cell. Seeing another innocent killed enraged the vampires and the debate began once again.

tn was killed! He was a vanilla townie!

Votecount:
  • LARD:
  • TheDarkStar:
  • Deathsword:
  • RangerCado:
  • Kansa:
  • Jack A T:
  • Tiruin:

Not voting: Everyone

Day two has begun and will end thursday  at 10 pm EST.

Votes to extend: [0/3]
Votes to shorten: [0/4]
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #235 on: June 02, 2014, 10:22:14 pm »

That was... unexpected. At this point, we need reads from everyone, along with reasons for why they think that.

My reads will be here tomorrow. My ideas about who the scum are are semi-irrelevant now in light of who has died, although Ranger and Jack are not off my suspicion list. Also, due to voting a guy who flipped townie, LARD is also on my suspicion list until I got through posts in detail. There's a very good chance that one of those three is scum; however, that doesn't exclude everyone else.
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RangerCado

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #236 on: June 03, 2014, 12:12:21 am »

Well... wow. Scum did exactly what I stated earlier, kill those we all suspect to cause confusion. Huh.

I'll get something more substantial tomorrow, its getting pretty late here.
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Jack A T

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #237 on: June 03, 2014, 12:38:45 am »

Alright.

We gained two major pieces of information since we last talked.  One is that borno was town.  The other is that tn5421 was town.  Anything either of them said can safely be believed to be their honest opinions.  This is a good time to look back and look at the pushes against the two dead townies.  Look at who was involved, and evaluate their reasons.

Jack A T: Why are you not going for tn5421?
LARD: Because his behaviour did not indicate scumhood.
As for my take, the scumbuddy is probably hidden in those few we haven't heard from recently. This kind of bothers me. If a scumbuddy is under fire, I think a scum would probably be active in either bussing or trying to get buddy off the hook.
Why did you think this?

Reads tomorrow.
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FUCK YOU JACK
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YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Jack A T

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #238 on: June 03, 2014, 06:58:10 pm »

Reads:
*Kansa: Nervous newbie, still trying to get used to the game.  Low activity seems to be due to inexperience, and nervousness caused by said inexperience.  Since my last read, his activity dropped significantly. Very weak town lean.
*Deathsword: Only content post is on the 28th.  Seemed to be trying to gain information and sort things out, while having difficulty due to the poor activity.  Needs to post more.  Null read.
*Tiruin: Is locked in a desperate battle against bad internet.  When possible, she gave detailed partial thoughts, but it is difficult to read her when she can't get more than fragments of her thoughts posted.  Long, detailed fragments, but fragments nonetheless.  Null read.
*RangerCado: Part of both major lynch pushes in day 1.  After initially FoSing tn5421 for vague reasons largely relating to tn's poor playstyle, what finally got RangerCado to vote for him was tn's breakdown and decision to let himself die.  Of all of tn's attackers, Cado had the least reason to attack.  However, RangerCado withdrew soon after I did, for much the same reason that I did.

RangerCado then started the main push against borno.  The focus was on borno's failure to do much beyond attacking tn5421.  Borno didn't do much to get rid of that.

Overall: slight scum lean, primarily gut-based.  I await that more substantial post he's promised.
*LARD: Nervous about my vote, but for understandable reasons when his inexperience and my position here is noted.  Tends towards long, detailed posts.  Shrugged off borno's claim of inexperience.  LARD's vote was strange, with his top suspect (tn5421, who LARD believed was "probably mafia") not the target.  Declared he wanted tn5421 alive to shake things up in the same post that he stated that tn5421 would likely do nothing unless dragged along with the town and the same post that he stated that tn5421 was probably scum.  Largely ignored borno's questions, aside from the one about inconsistent handling of overdefensiveness.

Behaviour with regard to tn5421 and borno was... strange.  Somewhat mild scum lean.
*TheDarkStar: TheDarkStar appears to be trying to give the impression of being here, but without actually saying anything of substance.  His first post, as read lists go, is strange.  He declared that he suspected every single consistently active player in the game, each for vague reasons (except RangerCado, who didn't even get a reason), and he declared that at least one of the scum was probably among that half of the players.  No vote was made.  So, there we got TheDarkStar taking little in the way of a position.  He did, at least, say he would give more reasons later.

That never happened.  Two days later, about 3 hours before the end of the day and with numerous questions to answer, he posted that he'd taken too long to get detailed reasons together and that he decided to wait for the lynch results.  Still no solid position taken, and no questions answered.

Today, he again has promised thoughts later.  Let's hope he actually gives them this time.  He has also taken the convenient opportunity to declare his previous reads "semi-irrelevant," (that may just be poor wording, though) and has continued not answering questions about them.

LARD: Please answer those of borno's questions to you that you still can.
RangerCado: Yesterday, you were voting borno due to his failure to do much not related to tn5421.  How likely did you think it was that borno would be scum?
TheDarkStar: Do answer my questions, borno's request for information, and LARD's question to non-voters.  Also, I initially missed the lack of reason for your RangerCado read, and would like an explanation for the lack of given reason there.
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FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

TheDarkStar

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Re: Beginner's Mafia XLVII: Vampire Coven - Day Two
« Reply #239 on: June 03, 2014, 08:01:23 pm »

As I said, here are my reads:

LARD:
Slight scum lean, due to post 213 where he decides that borno is scum rather than tn for unclear reasoning and post 203 for voting borno despite saying that he things that tn is probably scum. However, in those same posts, he questions people and scumhunts to an extent. He also replaced in at the end of the day, so there's a reason for him having less. As for darkpaladin, there is barely anything to go off of (but his reads list will be useful later in this game).

LARD, why did you think borno was scum (or scummier) rather than tn? What are your reads?

Deathsword:
Null read due to almost no real posts excused due to RL and replacing another nearly non-active person. Also, to answer his question, I had two main ideas for scumteams because of the way that people seemed to be cooperating, but later things made this doubtful. However, I still see Jack A T as scummy.

What are your reads, in light of last night's events? Please be more active.

RangerCado:
Moderate scum lean. Post 158: Seems to be interpreting what borno says differently, where he takes a random question as bad scumhunting and votes borno for this. Also, he is the only one who is really defending tn for a while, which could mean that he has insider knowledge. Also, post 156 (just use the previous link): He states that he is voting against the evidence that he sees. In (post 144), he shows all these reasons that tn is scummy and then unvotes him and focuses on someone else.

Why did you not vote for tn? Why did you interpret borno's post the way you did? What are your reads?

Kansa:
Null read due to near-inactivity.

Get in here and tell us your reads!

Tiruin:
Moderate town lean. In post 229/230, she seems like town due to trying to figure things out and asking questions. However, I have trouble getting a good read for her in general.

What do you think of yesterday's events? What do you vote now? What are your reads?

Jack A T[/color]:
I thought this was going to be a strong scum lean, but then I read through your posts, so you're leaning town. In the post just above this one (238), he votes for me rather than RangerCado, who he gives a scum lean, or LARD, who he gives a minor scum lean. However, this could simply be there to pressure me into giving my reads. You voted for borno at the end of the day, possibly for credit in post 218, and you use some reasoning that has mostly been used already. Because there is new reasoning there (and you have been doing some scumhunting throughout the game), though, I think that you found it on your own.

Thanks for the reads. What is your non-pressure vote? What do you think the scum killing tn implies?
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it happened it happened it happen im so hyped to actually get attacked now
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