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[IronyOwl]

Sorry about the absence.

Dariush:

Yes, I am the wizard. Yes, I killed Vector and Jim. Happy? Now, the catch - I asked LNCP and he directly replied that once I fulfill my win condition, the town won't need to lynch me any longer. Oh, and about that wincon...

If my NK's target is the golem (whom I desperately tried to lure out for the whole game), he becomes my ally, and I win. Not immediatly, for that I'd need to find the bracelet, which is definitely possessed by witches. If the witch that possesses it is lynched or killed, I'll need to wait until the natural end of the game. If the golem is lynched or killed, I lose.

I don't believe this at all. There's a number of reasons why, but the most obvious is "why would we think you're telling the truth this time?"

More concretely, your kill pattern doesn't match someone who's not anti-town, nor does it match your claimed wincon. You knocked off the most experienced players first, and even admitted it was because you wanted easy-to-manipulate people around later in the game- yet, supposedly town has no reason to get rid of you and vice versa, and indeed you're united in wanting to find witches. To top it all off, if all went well you wouldn't even be around late game, having fulfilled your wincon and bolted.

Furthermore, your inspect/kill pattern doesn't make much sense. If killing the wrong target really screwed you over, presumably you'd inspect everyone as/before you killed them. Instead, there's only one overlap out of three. Logically, all these targets would also be the scummiest players, since you're looking for a golem and a witch- instead, they've been the best players, because you're looking to not get caught.

Finally, you'd have us believe that you have an awkward secondary wincon that bypasses everyone else's. Riiiight.

It isn't technically killing (since the primary purpose of the ritual is to enslave the golem, and if used on human it kills them as a side-effect, but no, I don't.

Also, this is just priceless. "Technically it's not killing, it's just a ritual that kills everything but one player that I use for killing."



Think/Jim:

Reply from Jim, insult preserved:

I'll be nice and replace instances of "I" with "Jim," which still explains nothing. Why would you/the scumteam withhold such relevant information?

They didn't, you dumbshit.

How do you figure?

By the time you decided to pass this information along to Think for him to tell to us, you had the whole story- robes and rod, magical Dariush, column of light- but just gave us "Dariush was leaving Vector's."



Toaster:

However, I can't help but point out you never actually denied being the third witch.

I'm not the third witch. I'm also not fond of stating the obvious.

Here's the thing- if the golem got here the same time all this started, how could he be impersonating an innkeeper?  Investigating Simple's flavor indicated much that he's been innkeeping for quite some time.  I'd think the golem would be someone that would have no strong ties to the town.

Not really. In theory the same ought to be true of all non-town, but it hasn't been for the witches, was lied about convincingly by Dariush, and supposedly is true of the pro-town Inquisitor.

Speaking of which, how is it that you're "Town-Aligned" but have a completely separate (albeit similar) wincon? Isn't the defenition of X-aligned that you win or lose with X?

Irony:  Let me formalize it:  Are you the golem?  If not, who do you think is what role?  If so, what is your wincon?

No. Currently leaning:

Dariush = Obvwizard
Flandre = Townie. If she's not dead tomorrow, likely the last witch. Faint chance of being golem, if it's the kill and replace sort and/or the witches were in cahoots with it for some reason.

Think = Witch or Witch-Ally. If Ally, Toaster is probably the last witch.

Toaster = Inquisitor, Witch, or Golem. Top suspect for Witch if Think isn't, first in line for golem for similar reasons; in either case, knew too much to not have an inspect. Normally I'd rule out the golem because of this, except Dariush appears to have both an inspect and kill, so evidently it's not impossible.

Simple = Anything. Was getting kind of a townie vibe off him, but his preference for flailing is making me wonder.



Simple:

Toaster: If he's a golem i have no way of winning so i couldn't care less for this option. It seems unlikely due to inspect stuff(Why would he go around people homes AND kill others ?)

What do you mean by this?

[Toaster]

Irony:  The witches possessed people, per Jim.  He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch.  It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents.  The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush.  Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.  Getting rid of the golem should get rid of the wizard, too, so...

Unvote Dariush.  IronyOwl.

In regards to my wincon, I don't know.  I specifically asked about that, and was told I was town aligned, but with a different wincon.  Asking what happens if my narrower wincon was filled was met with a generic "You win when your wincon is filled."  Didn't I already answer this?  In any case, calling it "completely separate" is intentionally misleading.

[IronyOwl]

Irony:  The witches possessed people, per Jim.  He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch.  It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents.  The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush.  Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.

So you're admitting to being third party?

That would help explain why you'd assume a third party couldn't inherit anything from someone they were masquerading as.

In regards to my wincon, I don't know.  I specifically asked about that, and was told I was town aligned, but with a different wincon.  Asking what happens if my narrower wincon was filled was met with a generic "You win when your wincon is filled."  Didn't I already answer this?  In any case, calling it "completely separate" is intentionally misleading.

Bullshit. X-Aligned means "not directly on X's team, but wins or loses with them." Claiming you're town-aligned yet have a separate set of wincons is like saying you're a miller who appears townie to inspections- it doesn't exist.

You even mentioned earlier that as Think was witch-aligned, he must lose when the witches couldn't win- if you were really "town-aligned but that just means pro-town," that would have occurred to you.

Getting rid of the golem should get rid of the wizard, too, so...

Also, I love how you believe half of the obviously lying obvwizard's claim. Killing the golem? That'll get rid of the wizard, the wizard told me so! Bracelet? What bracelet?

I'm assuming that, similar to Dariush, you've got to actually kill him to win. Unfortunately, I'm less convinced you'll vanish upon doing so, or at least, there doesn't seem to be any reason lynching him would get rid of you slower.


Incidentally, this also explains why you "sleep" in front of a window to keep an eye on things- you're not sleeping at all. That's not especially relevant, but I found it amusing.

[Simple]

IronyOwl: I meant that i'm assuming i still have a chance of winning. Toaster got his hands on some kind of inspect that's certain, it could be either what he claims or it again has something to do with the bracelet (info about which we got only from dariush who can't even say what it does exactly despite being it's creator.). This excludes him being golem in my eyes. If he's a witch i doubt he got any other power than this inspect and i can't see a reason why he wouldn't claim.

Also what role should be lynched today in your opinion ? (Wizard/Golem/Witch/Inquisitor/Something else ?)

[IronyOwl]

IronyOwl: I meant that i'm assuming i still have a chance of winning. Toaster got his hands on some kind of inspect that's certain, it could be either what he claims or it again has something to do with the bracelet (info about which we got only from dariush who can't even say what it does exactly despite being it's creator.). This excludes him being golem in my eyes. If he's a witch i doubt he got any other power than this inspect and i can't see a reason why he wouldn't claim.

I'm pretty sure he said something about a "release of souls" earlier, which might tie into Think's claim. Could also be building on each other's lies or something, but if there is a bracelet, there's probably a reason for it. If there isn't, Dariush still has an inspect for something.

Bottom line is, if Dariush has a reason for an inspect, I can see the golem having a similar reason.

Also what role should be lynched today in your opinion ? (Wizard/Golem/Witch/Inquisitor/Something else ?)

Dariush. He's the more openly anti-town of the two SK's, deliberately going after experienced targets. I don't know what Toaster's targeting method was, but it mostly worked out for us. I don't think which one we get rid of first matters on a role-level, but we should obviously dispose of a killer if at all possible.

[Dariush]

I don't believe this at all.

Okay, I stopped considering any input from you after that sentence...

Also what role should be lynched today in your opinion ? (Wizard/Golem/Witch/Inquisitor/Something else ?)

Dariush.

Except for this priceless gem. You are asked what role we should lynch, and you simply point to me.

Since golem still hasn't claimed, it's safe to assume that me converting him would lead him to losing, and probably to win he has to kill me.

About witches (to Toaster and Simple):
Everything we know about witches comes from Think. If he's the witch, he could have lied while (maybe) remaining the most dangerous threat around. For all we know, the witches could be a cult, with three people here being them. And I'm still not buying Think's role as a scum-aware Brother.

[Toaster]

Irony:

Irony:  The witches possessed people, per Jim.  He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch.  It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents.  The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush.  Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.

So you're admitting to being third party?

That would help explain why you'd assume a third party couldn't inherit anything from someone they were masquerading as.

Of course not.  According to this "logic" of yours, you'd be admitting the same thing, since you've said you're not from around here.  "Third parties are nonresidents" and "nonresidents are third parties" aren't the same, and I know you know that because you're not an idiot.

Irony:  The witches possessed people, per Jim.  He was clearly a local per his flavor, and yet was a witch.  It's the third parties that appear to be nonresidents.  The only people alive who have claimed nonresidence are me, you, and Dariush.  Dariush is obvwizard and I know I'm a inquisitor, so you must be the golem.

So you're admitting to being third party?

That would help explain why you'd assume a third party couldn't inherit anything from someone they were masquerading as.

In regards to my wincon, I don't know.  I specifically asked about that, and was told I was town aligned, but with a different wincon.  Asking what happens if my narrower wincon was filled was met with a generic "You win when your wincon is filled."  Didn't I already answer this?  In any case, calling it "completely separate" is intentionally misleading.

Bullshit. X-Aligned means "not directly on X's team, but wins or loses with them." Claiming you're town-aligned yet have a separate set of wincons is like saying you're a miller who appears townie to inspections- it doesn't exist.

You even mentioned earlier that as Think was witch-aligned, he must lose when the witches couldn't win- if you were really "town-aligned but that just means pro-town," that would have occurred to you.

I'm not sure what you want me to do here.  I specifically asked and was told I was town aligned, despite my not 100% matching wincon.

I think the discrepancy can be resolved by the fact that there aren't any witch-aligned roles or killers (that aren't magical entities), meaning they're effectively the same.  (Yes, I've figured out that Think is indeed the witch.  More on that in a bit.)

Getting rid of the golem should get rid of the wizard, too, so...

Also, I love how you believe half of the obviously lying obvwizard's claim. Killing the golem? That'll get rid of the wizard, the wizard told me so! Bracelet? What bracelet?

I think he's told enough truths that I can piece together everything.




In any case, Max White was right- it's all about the flavor.  LNCP even said so:

read the flavour for detective work (highly recommended!)

So I did just that.

Here's the full role list, as I've got it:

Toaster:  Inquisitor.
Simple:  Villager, probably miller.
Flandre:  Lover Villager.  Doomed to die tonight.
Think:  The third witch.  Has the bracelet.
Dariush:  Wizard.
Irony:  Golem.


Why?  I think Dariush is telling the truth about having just chased the golem here.  That would imply the golem is someone new in town, which is either Dariush, me, or Irony.  Dariush is the wizard, as claimed by him and reinforced by Think, leaving Irony as the golem.  His strong desire to get rid of Dariush backs this up.

Dariush I believe is the wizard, and I am hoping will indeed lose (or at least win and be gone) when the golem is lynched, taking care of the magical entities.

Why do I say Think is the Witch?  Because he's got the bracelet!  Think about it- the bracelet has some sort of power relating to souls, right?  What else but giving him the power to talk to the dead!  Since (per Dariush) the bracelet is held by a witch, that makes Think a witch!


So we hang Irony today, Dariush and Flandre leave/die in the night, and tomorrow it's me, Think, and Simple.  We lynch Think, good game.



Yes, I'm relying on several things Dariush the Wizard said, but a lot of that I don't see him lying about, as it's related to people he's against (the witches).  I think there's enough in there we can trust so as to solve the case based on it.


If anyone sees any problems, let me know, but I believe this is it.

[Toaster]

Also, Flandre, we have a tie right now.  Please get on and vote  (Ideally Irony.)

[Dariush]

Why do I say Think is the Witch?  Because he's got the bracelet!

Why are you so sure?

Besides, why can't we just lynch Think today if the end result will be the same, except I'll win?...

[Reverie]

I apologise, everyone. I was not active this past week as I should have been... I am on vacation, and Mafia is on the back of my mind. I am about to die, so it would be absurd for me to ask for a replacement,and the alternative is getting mod-killed, which would hurt town. Both of these feel rude!

[Toaster]

Dariush:  Read the next three sentences after the part you quoted.

Why not lynch Think now?  Because I don't trust you enough to trust your stated wincon*.  Sorry.  Also, without knowing Irony's wincon, what's to stop him from stomping you and wrecking everything?


*Yes, I am fully aware I am selectively trusting Dariush.  I think the little things he's revealed are trustworthy while the big thing (IE- his wincon) is not trustworthy.



Flandre:  Understood, but you need to vote.

[Dariush]

...except you can lynch Irony tomorrow, and if he kills me tonight, then well, hooray town.

Also, what wincon do you suspect I have?

[Reverie]

I do not want to vote for IronyOwl and regret it, Toaster. What if you are wrong? 

[Toaster]

If I am wrong, then I assume the real golem will stomp Dariush in.  Dariush will try to control the real golem, whoever that is (Probably Simple at that point, but I highly doubt it isn't Irony.) 


There's always a chance to be wrong in Mafia, but at some point you have to commit.

[Think0028]

Unvote, vote IronyOwl. I'm pretty damn certain he's the golem by process of elimination, and that should rid us of both him and Dariush hopefully.

As for me being the third witch because obviously the bracelet gives the ability to speak to the dead: I suspect that the bracelet's actually related to what's responsible for me not being able to talk to dead people who have their souls taken away. Either the bracelet's taking them away, or they'll be released if Dariush get the bracelet, or something. Either way, I don't have the bracelet, the witches won't tell me anything about the bracelet if they know anything, and I'm not the third witch.

Post from Jim:

How do you figure?

By the time you decided to pass this information along to Think for him to tell to us, you had the whole story- robes and rod, magical Dariush, column of light- but just gave us "Dariush was leaving Vector's."

Obviously Jim and Urist weren't holding out as Dariush has now claimed to be the wizard. What's your problem again?

Apparently, Dariush leaving Vector's house wasn't enough for everybody, despite that being more than grounds enough in most games, so Jim provided more information. That's not holding out, and even if Jim and Urist were (which we they weren't as Dariush just claimed Wizard), what the hell for?

You're not making any sense here, and it looks like you're raising objections for their own sake.