~~~~~WARNING: FROSTMOON IS STILL ANGRY--PLEASE PROCEED WITH CAUTION~~~~~~ First of all, yeah, sorry about my rather snippish
response NJW, but I'm rushing, and I'm still a little peeved by this game.
I respect your decision to do math over this game. If there are particular things about my behavior that upset you I hope you will let me know; I play for fun, and don't want to impede anyone else's fun in doing so and I am sorry if I have.
We have at least another 25 hours, I do hope you will have time to make a defense.
1. T'was more my parents' decision about the math, actually.
2. I hate to say it, but it was (mainly) some stuff you said that really...angered me. I'm really sorry about that, but....
However, this apology of yours, especially since you didn't know that some of stuff you said was bothering me, really...lightened my mood. Thank you.
This is a reasonable reason for an extension.
This was what finally threw me over the edge of a game that's been bothering me for a while. It...no. Just, no. This sentence made me say "no" so many times it wasn't funny. At all. People may lie about many thing in mafia, but they will not lie about real life. That, and when I posted to extend, the game was both at a standstill and geared straight for no lynch, which, as you can see from the opening post,
is not (generally) a good idea on day 1. That, and you know, who the heck wants to play a game that ends on a bout of inactivity on day 1? It's just not fun. Thankfully, your post voting me brought the game back to life, so I guess I have to thank you for that, huh?
There's a bunch of other stuff that helped anger me, but if they're relevant, you'll see them down in your own section.
Oh, and I'm a
girl. Just in case
these two
posts haven't drilled it into your head yet.
No I don't think both IC's are scum but I haven't gotten a read on persus13 yet so I can't say.
Wait, what? Does that mean you had a read on kilakan who, before he was replaced by roo,
hadn't posted yet? What? XD
Everyone what is your typical scum hunting strategy and what do you think never works.
I like to ask questions to multiple people, and then respond to whatever they said with more questions if I can. I also like to ask people about what they said to other people 'cause, ya know, I'm not the only person in this game. As for stuff that doesn't quite work, I'd say Griffion's current playstyle is rather anti-town. Not that it never works, as a lot of the stuff he's asked has been great, but the stuff he's told people not to do has been...bad. Like the whole "other people's reads are too ethereal to make sense of", while I think I see what he means,not posting reads
is something that very much helps scum. Actually, just his general "lone wolf" style might work as say, a third party, but is just generally anti-town. You'll see more of this in Griffion's section. (Note that I do not necessarily think that Griffion's scum--in fact, I really can't read him right now without being afraid that my read's based more on anger than actual play, so yeah.)
If people don't worry too much about the questions and answer them they are less likely to lie and it just makes it harder to lie later.
Huh. Do you think that only scum players worry about answering questions?
Griffionday you being opposed to an extend when we don't have a scummy lynch target is bad enough, but then you also go and say that everyone should just make reads and vote on who to lynch without leaving much room for a discussion, almost as if you don't want to give Fostmoon a chance to save himself. Also you have done two things to scum hunt, one you voted for kilakan, and defended why you did that. After that you did a form of active lurking where you didn't contribute much, just helped people out and acted like an IC, which I get since the Ic's are inactive. Then you write a well written attack on frostmoon and why he is scum. Your reactions in particular were interesting to me. You seemed confused certainly, but I didn't feel like it shook your views of either of us. Your questions seemed to take away from the absurdity of it, and downplay things rather than try to genuinely get more information about us from your questions. Which made you feel like you already knew more about what was happening there than you should have if you only knew that you were town.
This point is a little invalid since your vote didn't shake my view of you at all, now moonlit's vote made me a bit suspicious of them but not too much since it was a pretty good thing to do looking back on it. To be honest I find Frostmoon a bit suspicious too, but not as suspicious as you not wanting an extend with only your target having a clear case on them.
Griffion is not, in this case, scummy for opposing the extend. He had a good reason for objecting; another day of nothing would do, well, nothing. In fact, it would (marginally) help scum, as it would give them more time to formulate their reads, or to set up gambits.
Griffion: It is good to finally have you back!
Thank you. I would've posted earlier the that you said this, but I had school, and big posts take hours for me to make sure they're actually of quality, and yesterday, well...I got angry, which probably would've made my post nothing but a giant rant.
Completely serious, no sarcasm.
Huh. Any reason for choosing kilakan over Persus? Do you think that voting a random newbie would've netted the same response? Why gambit? Is there any benefit to gambiting in RVS over any of time in the game?
tntey
I am assuming you were claiming a power role, and not claiming a mafia role. What role, and how will you use it?
...no. Just, no. This is role-fishing. This is what I meant by anti-town gameplay, by the way. You know, I don't believe that keeping track of whether or not someone has a power role is scummy--however, asking someone to claim ("What role?") day 1 is something that will
only benefit scum. I mean, wooo, town might know who the cop is! But the issue is, scum does, too, now. And scum's willing to kill tntey if they think he is a power role. What did you hope to gain from this question? But this, combined with your earlier post...
I as a rule don't like asking people their reads except under very limited circumstances. They tend to be rather aethereal things, difficult to pin down, and can change based on developments in the game. Also they can be a lot of work to put together and write out, and I am lazy. However, to play this game it is required that you have and act on reads, as they are the central point of the entire game; they should determine your votes, who you are trying to get more information on and who you are trying to prove to everyone else as mafia. You can't safely rely on anyone else to give you your reads, as either they are just as ignorant as you, or they will be trying to give you false information.
Do you have reads? Meaning are there people you think are more or less likely to be mafia than others? (Note, a yes or no statement is sufficient here; I expect you to show me your reads by acting on them, rather than just parroting them to me)
A note for your reads: I tend to think that dividing read into "town" and "mafia" can be quite blinding. Those titles have connotations of behavioral patterns, but anyone can be belligerent, not want to play, confusing, cautious, stubborn, panicking or friendly. There is at least one important different though; a mafia member will know who everyone else is. Thus looking at how people react and seeing if they seem to be acting with more information than is reasonable for them to have is a good way to assess your reads.
...creates a HECK NO reaction. No. Just, no! This is verrrrry anti-town! Do you know who not asking for reads helps? Scum! How? Because scum are more likely to have a set of null reads! And yeah, they might be a bit "ethereal", but they still keep the game moving. If someone whom someone thought was scum flips town, ask they about how they feel about that. If they though they were town but they flip scum, ask them about it. Ask them if their reads have changed! I dunno! They just...help keep the game moving. In fact, your playstyle was the topic for one of those rants I had written out. It's, just, no, in general. I'm really sorry, but
please, this play really helps scum, and if you're town, you don't want that, right?
In general I think questions to everyone are a waste of time.
I...disagree completely. Questions to everyone can be useful, like asking everyone what their reads are. Heck, asking people what they think of another player's play isn't necessarily scummy--it gives more insight to the person being asked. (Though I don't quite see how that last point had anything to do with the "everyone questions" thing, so oops. XD)
Firstly, as Frostmoon said, she is a lady, and the fact that you only refer to her as masculine is rather indicative of you not reading anything she says close enough: which you /should/ be doing if you are a town member who doesn't absolutely know that she is a mafia member.
...umm, misgendering me isn't a scumtell, Griffion. Interesting that you kinda defend me for a bit, but okay. I think I get why you did it, in this case, as it was less to defend me and more to tear apart NJW's argument, right? Also, tntey didn't necessarily claim cop, unless I missed something (which is all too possible). There are other power roles, after all.
Moonlit: Hey, you. Yeah, you. What do you think about me "buddying" you? Do you believe I'm buddying you? Do you think I'm scum? If I am scum, who do you think is my scumbuddy? Why is it not you, as everyone else thinks it is if I flip scum? How much of the Jack AT's intro post (as in, the opening post, the one that started the thread) did you read? Why ask about Scum ICs? Why am I only asking you these questions now?
Frostmoon: When I was asking about 'the interactions between Griffionday and NJW2000', it was merely a placeholder. I was basically asking what you thought about what had been said.
Hmm. Well, I hope that this post explains what I think of them. Why ask me, in particular?
Nah, you're just more suspicious than the others
How was NJW more suspicious than everyone else? Why a pressure vote so late into the day? Why was NJW more suspicious than tntey?
tntey:I am going to lynch moonlight I guess. He did jump on griffin in the beginning
...what. Out of everything that happened so far,
that's what you find so suspicious? An RVS vote? I mean, sure, I think that Moonlit's town. Even I, though, could see more legitimate reasons to vote Moonlit. Do you think he faked his "townslip"? Do you think that his early gambit was scummy? Or...?
Unvote. griffonday Fillkp made some good points.
Again, what? Seriously, what the heck? Why is Griffion suddenly so scummy for objecting to an extend?
NJW:While I'd rather not be kicked out the game on the first day, one vote isn't a pressure move. Or it's a pretty lame one. I find your sudden and apparently unmotivated change odd, and even odder the fact that you tell me you're just trying to pressurise me, but I guess it's consistent with earlier flailing on your part.
Moonlit: if all you're doing is flailing when doing stuff like this, and single unmotivated votes aren't gonna scare someone this late in the day, why didn't you bandwagon someone to freak them out? It would have been equivalent to an early flail, I think. You vote seems to be heading us towards nolynch.
First of all, I think that pressure vote did exactly what was intended. Second of all, you're the one flailing, NJW. Sure, I don't get why Moonlit would vote you, and that's really weird, but you're reaction's even weirder. I get being peeved at badly explained votes--heck, I'm completely and utterly sick of all the inane reasons people have been voting for (I almost ranted about it yesterday, actually), but seriously, this is a bad way to react. Especially since I actually had a town lean on you--while you were tunneling, your reasons for voting me were moderately sound. So, what do you think of this quote from Griffion?:
I think Moonlit Shadow's vote was the single most brilliant thing to happen in this game. It was not flailing, it was not "scummy", and it certainly wasn't something that only a noob would do. I would be quite proud of that gambit were I the one who pulled it off, and am eager to see the results of it.
Why do you think that what Moonlit claimed was gambit flailing? {HINDSIGHT:You know what, I think I just realized why you flailed at this vote. You're angry that a lot of the votes this game have pretty bad reasonings, right? Yeah. I with you there. But still, you did kinda flail.}
@FROSTMOON: can you EVER show me a time in which you attacked or pressurised Frostmoon in any way, or were anything but friendly towards him? (Above relevant too)
[joke]Oh yeah, I can show you soooo many times where I pressured myself![/joke] You're talking about Moonlit, right? Well, here's the thing--you wanna know why I stopped asking him questions? I'll give you a hint: you can see it in the mirror! In other words, you're the darn reason I stopped pressing Moonlit earlier on. Remember this gem?:
Frostmoon:why are you pointing at Moonlit when it's pretty blantantly obvious that his play has been noobishly scummy, and he's just nominating people for info/RP/weird draconic reasons, as far as we can tell? Mighn't it be better to see if he calls them off quickly, near the end of the day?
In other words, I agreed with what you had said then about how it was silly to press Moonlit, as he wasn't adequately responding to most questions about that. In fact, that was the other reason why I didn't follow up on Moonlit's evasion of one of my first few questions in the game--I didn't think he would answer well. And then Moonlit revealed that it was all a gambit, and I thought "A gambit? Why would he gambit like that...?" and I kinda felt like Moonlit may be scum, and while he probably wasn't (my gut was saying that he was town), I kept an eye on him, but decided against asking questions, as I didn't think any of mine would actually do anything to him. And then he dropped
this, and I thought "...huh. He might be gambiting, but I don't think he is this time. Still, I'll keep an eye on him, but I'll note this down as a 'townslip'." Does this explain anything?
Escpecially if it was the thing that led to Frostmoon sitting out for a bit 
No, no, it's fine, really. :3 People always misgender me on this forum--it's not that that infuriated me. It was...a lot of other stuff. But seriously, it's fine. Really. Same goes to pretty well everyone else here, even if you did anger me--I...have a bit of a temper. And I really don't want you guys to feel upset, or anything, so that's why I took a break. You wanna know why though, that I'm so conversational? Because this is a game, and I'm here to have fun. So yes, some of my comments, like this one, are conversational. It'd be that way for no matter whether I was town or scum (or third party). In fact, the reason why I stopped being as friendly after a while was because I starting getting more and more fed up with this game, and it was harder to be friendly when you're upset.
You know what the weird thing is, though? I don't think NJW's scum. Sure, he's been tunneling like all heck, but I still don't think he's scum. I could be wrong, but, well....
kilaroo: (a.k.a. roo) Hey, welcome to the game! :3
Frostmoon Am gonna catch up today; for now i will vote fm. A combo of making posts with nothing in them and questions that do not forward the game and instead makenothers post fluff. I know I know, but roo it was rvs. I wanna get into this game. It is a high possibility of me changing it as I am on the first page. Although I shouldn't say that for 'pressure' reasons. Now FM wont feel the heat. We'll see though if they have more questions like the gem above.
What the heck was even the purpose of that vote? To hop on a bandwagon? To tell me that I'm not allowed to actually be friendly, curious, and, most importantly, have fun in this "game"?
Oh, and you never replied to this, kilaroo:
kilakan: You're quite popular today, it seems~! :3 What do you think of these votes? Do bandwagons usually start during RVS?
How do you feel about being the victim of a gambit?
I'd be okay with a filipk lynch.
...what. First you vote me for an RVS question, and then this. Why? Why is filipk scummier than me, your previous target?
filipkis scum. Die scum, die.
...what. Again. How is fillipk so scummy?
I'm here hitting the refresh button while everyone else is jacking off. Fine I'll go read fm vs nsfw.
Frostmoon VS Not Safe For Work? So...me against porn? XD Okay then.
wait is njw blatant scum?
You know the drill. Yet another "what"-inducing post.
DoctorDynamo: (a.k.a. Ddynamo) Hello, and welcome to the game~! :3 Any ideas about who might be scum? Does that
list include anyone you think is scum?
Woooo! I actually finished this post! It may have taken me what, six hours, but I still finished it! XD Yayyyy~! But again, I'm really sorry for getting so angry guys, but please, this is a game. I just want you all to remember that, as it seems that this game occasionally just gets too serious, okay? Oh, and those comments on your playstyle, Griffion? They're important, no matter what I might be playing as, okay? But...thank you. Thank you for not getting angry at me for being angry. And good luck and good game to all, okay? :3 Oh, and I'm sorry if I didn't answer any questions--I probably just missed them. Again.
Author
Topic: Beginner's Mafia LVI: The Messengers - Town Victory (Read 31114 times)