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[Caz]

NQT

What kind of question is that? I'm seeming reasonable because I am reasonable. What would you expect town to do?

It just seems like you'd be more genuinely annoyed with someone trying to convince others that you should be lynched.  Yet you're defending his play as if you have no problems with it.

If he was making these arguments against someone else, would you be convinced and lynch yourself? (Assuming you weren't you, of course.)

No, as I don't consider defensiveness to be a scumtell. No one else appears convinced either. What do you think?

It's hard to tell at this point, but it looks a bit like townvtown interaction to me.


Nerjin

Nerjin:
Lazy lazy bastard. Doesn’t seem to have put as much effort into it as he could though I’m pretty sure he’s town. I lied a bit when I said I’d give out pieces of information on everyone. Make that everyone-1. Also apparently confuses BYOR12 with this game in which there is quite a bit less than twenty quadrillion players.

Uhm... Not sure what to make of this.

Makes me wonder something: Why were you considering changing your vote and is me not panicking really a good enough reason to keep it on myself?

I want to make the best use of my vote. Persus was starting to look more scummy than you in the last few pages, but this sarcastic "You've found me out! I'm scum!" is enough to put the bead on you again. I find it a desperate joke to convince others of your towny-ness. "Hey look guys! I claimed scum! I'm obviously not, right? Ha ha!"

[Toaster]

I could go for an extend.


Nerjin:  (Also Caz and NQT, et al.)

Oh fuck off. This late in the day there is no such thing as a pressure vote. If you're not voting the person you think is scummiest you're wasting everyone's time.

Crap, okay, I did screw one thing up.  That was actually referring to the vote on Toony, not you.  I don't always write my posts in the order they end up.  As of me reading this post (#237) I am okay with lynching you.

@Toaster: I'd like to apologize for what I said last night. There was no reason to lash out at someone who had nothing to do with the problem.

Nah, it was my fault for being confusing.

Not knowing what I'm looking at creates fear. Fear creates mistakes in people who have something to hide.

Also, you're not the Batman. Passive non-accusatory play isn't striking fear into anyone, it just makes you look like scum.

NQT has pretty much nailed this one.

In any case, I'd like to hear your response to my vote now that the uncertainty has been cleared away.


Tiruin:  You'll have to wait until I hear a response from Nerjin.



Max:

Toaster

NQT bought it up to try and justify having an especially good wincon.

This is false.

What do you make of reply number 107? I would like it but I apparently am unable to link to specific posts right now..

He just said he was optimistic and that his wincon wasn't impossible.  How is that "an especially good wincon?"

He also listed several other wincons he had in the past claiming they were unwinnable, including a lot of town roles. If in a single post he is willing to say he has a winnable condition, and in the same post he lists several town roles, including some cop roles that are apparently unwinnable, it stands to reason he has a better wincon than then a town player, even one with a good ability.
Yes, he goes on to correct himself that those are actually winnable, but the implication that his is especially good, being better than the average ones, is still there.

Oh, okay.  I see what you're saying now.  I don't agree with it, but it's not a scummy argument.  (I think trying to draw that implication out all the way is stretching a metaphor way too far.)

Fair enough on your case.  Again, don't agree, but I don't see it as scummy now.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Cmega3: Persus13, Tiruin
Jim Groovester: ToonyMan
Max White: Cmega3, Nerjin
Nerjin: Caz, Toaster, notquitethere
notquitethere: Max White
Persus13: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: Imp



Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Thursday. There will be no more extensions this day.

[Nerjin]

My response is that you do what you feel is right.

Anyways I wasn't saying fuck off because you voted me, I was saying it because 1. I was pissed at something unrelated to the game and that lead me to 2. be annoyed that you were claiming  pressure vote so long after day end.

@Caz

I was saying I'm a lazy bastard. What else do you want? A diagram?

Also you don't understand sarcasm and anger it appears. Meh, not my problem.

Well it looks like I've been given a second chance. I'll have the rest of my reads up after I update my games. See y'all soon.

[Persus13]

First off, I just looked back at my original question (thanks to Nerjin) to Cmega3, and realized that I worded it the wrong way. I asked because I was confused about Meph's vote count. I should have said something like "Cmega3, you said you were canceling your vote on NQT back in [post whatever]. Is that an unvote on NQT or not?" Sorry if that came off much more aggressive then I meant to, I write like I talk, and that can be problematic without inflection.

Jim said we where scum buddies. I was affected too. What I meant is someone asking another person if they are to do something doesn't mean both are scum.

True but if I flip town you can argue that since I flipped town we weren't scumbuddies and therefore the buddying was accidental. Meanwhile, you get an easy mislynch and an extra day.

Persus

Why are you buddying me Cmega3? Why should you care so much about a question I asked? It won't have much effect on you and will have a big impact on me. Are you scum that thinks buddying a newbie town will get him lynched?

...Buddying suspicion + a vote? Buddying in this scenario is that much of a tell to place your vote on?

It seemed pretty suspicious to me as the one getting buddied, particularly as I couldn't really think why Cmega3 would ask the question as he isn't the one being voted at the moment. And his question about busing right above his question to Jim seems suspicious in context. Cmega may be a newb, but he hasn't really behaved the way I'd expect him to as a newb. His reasons seem odd even for newb reasons.  And his concern at my question seemed too interested for town.

Also, when did you put your vote on Cmega? I just noticed that in the vote count but didn't remember you placing the vote.

Do you really think Cmega is buddying you?


NQT's Log, Day 1: Nerjin breaks down and claims scum. Could this be easier than anticipated?

Not knowing what I'm looking at creates fear. Fear creates mistakes in people who have something to hide.

Also, you're not the Batman. Passive non-accusatory play isn't striking fear into anyone, it just makes you look like scum.

I loled at your two comments to Nerjin. Also, yes I think Cmega's buddying me.

I find you analysis an intriguing idea but I want to seer how much it works and how much it can be manipulated before making a judgement.

I have to go somewhere, I'll post again in over an hour from now

[Jim Groovester]

I suspect him but I'm not sure whether this behavior is normal for him or not. Is this normal behavior of Max? I believe you also ignored the section that says I'm not getting good reads on people.

So what?

You're going to let yourself get stopped because you don't know Max White's meta? You're new; you're not going to know a lot of people's meta before a good long while. In fact, while you're new, this is going to happen more often than not.

You still have to vote somebody.

I fail to see how that's a slip-up. Thanks for the tip though. By the same implication any insult thrown at me that I just ignore is true. And if I have a technical question I'm going to ask it and not care about how scummy I look.

It's a horrible slipup. I called you and Cmega3 scumbuddies. You did not deny this.

Recognition of a tactic is not an invalidation of its content.

I'm glad I'm back too. At the moment I'd vote Max, but until someone answers my questions on playstyle I'm going to wait.

And what if you never find out whether this is typical for Max White or not?

Are you just going to sit around, paralyzed by it?

You can't sit on your hands forever. At some point you're going to have to decide on you're own whether you really mean it or not.

Persus

Why are you buddying me Cmega3? Why should you care so much about a question I asked? It won't have much effect on you and will have a big impact on me. Are you scum that thinks buddying a newbie town will get him lynched?

...Buddying suspicion + a vote? Buddying in this scenario is that much of a tell to place your vote on?

It seemed pretty suspicious to me as the one getting buddied, particularly as I couldn't really think why Cmega3 would ask the question as he isn't the one being voted at the moment. And his question about busing right above his question to Jim seems suspicious in context. Cmega may be a newb, but he hasn't really behaved the way I'd expect him to as a newb. His reasons seem odd even for newb reasons.  And his concern at my question seemed too interested for town.

I think you need to elaborate further on this.

How was his question buddying?

How is he not acting like you'd expect him to?

Broad, hand-wavy arguments aren't convincing and they make it seem like you have reasons when you really don't.

Now - Why does my saying and asking about the words 'Jim is quiet' rate a double dose of profanity from you, when the first time those words were posted you were... completely quiet... in reaction to them?

But Toaster is cool.

Oh, and forgive me that I couldn't appreciate the subtleties in what you were saying, that, when you said "Jim is quiet," you in fact meant, "Toaster, you said Jim is quiet," something which would have no doubt been made abundantly clear to me had I read your post. Because your posts are art. In a true reversal of expectation, I assumed that in a 4500 word post there was no room or even need for subtelty; how happy I am to have been proven wrong. Clearly this discovery adds a whole new dimension to my previous impressions of your post; whereas before they were long and tall, they are also now deep. All fine, excellent mafia qualities.

Nerjin's meta analysis

Well, this is interesting.

Are these all his latest games?

We have 10 people posting very actively. Having me throw walls of text at people I'm not particularly focused on just throws out chaff.

Everybody else is doing work so you don't have to?

Yeah, right. You're making excuses for yourself so you don't have to hunt.

@Jim Groove:
Why are Cmega3 and Persus13 scum buddies again?  Also you seem pretty relaxed, are you enjoying yourself?

I accused Persus13 of being buddies with Cmega3 because Persus13 clarified, or reminded, or whatevered, Cmega3 that his uncolored unvote of NQT early in the game was not valid. It looked visibly like Persus13 was looking out for Cmega3, which I found odd and notable and seemed like evidence of collusion. I accused them of being buddies mostly to get a reaction out of Persus13.

I don't find the tell very valid, and it's not a significant part of my case on Persus13. I'm more or less convinced that Persus13 is scum because he has yet to vote anybody despite suspecting Max White.

Relaxed? I'm halfway to full-on swear mode. This game is resembling homework more than a little and I am losing patience.

I was trying to start to know you guys. Not only good for now, but for later games I may play in. I thought it was implicit.

You did it again!

What specifically were you trying to find out?

Never mind, I don't care anymore. Clearly I'm not going to get a response any different than the one you gave.

@Jim Groovester - What do you think is suspicious about Persus asking me if I would unvote NQT? I'd not posted for a while, he could've thought I wasn't gonna unvote or was undesicive.
I don't know how someone asking another person a question could be scumtell for both of them. Especially if it happened nine pages ago and nothing else particularly suspicious happened.

See my response to ToonyMan.

Imp, so your argument against ToonyMan is that he's scum because he's lazy because he hasn't had the time to post more than superficial content and analysis on players in the game. And that he wants to win without effort.

And that these two points in concert together paint ToonyMan as lazy, selfish, malicious, corner-utting, narrowminded, selfish, lazy, inconsiderate, lazy, selfish scum.

I think you're underestimating the amount of time that school and mafia take (for any college age player there's often not time enough for both), and I think you're extrapolating a pattern on limited evidence.

[Persus13]

I suspect him but I'm not sure whether this behavior is normal for him or not. Is this normal behavior of Max? I believe you also ignored the section that says I'm not getting good reads on people.

So what?

You're going to let yourself get stopped because you don't know Max White's meta? You're new; you're not going to know a lot of people's meta before a good long while. In fact, while you're new, this is going to happen more often than not.

You still have to vote somebody.

Well I can't tell if Max is being poor town or scum. But I think if he was scum he'd be less obvious about it. And the discussion between then and now is making almost everyone look scummy, so I'm not sure I know anymore.

I fail to see how that's a slip-up. Thanks for the tip though. By the same implication any insult thrown at me that I just ignore is true. And if I have a technical question I'm going to ask it and not care about how scummy I look.

It's a horrible slipup. I called you and Cmega3 scumbuddies. You did not deny this.

Recognition of a tactic is not an invalidation of its content.

I thought your accusation was ridiculous and like a troll accusation meant to get some guy to angrily yell at you. Which was why I didn't deny that fact. And I do deny it.

I'm glad I'm back too. At the moment I'd vote Max, but until someone answers my questions on playstyle I'm going to wait.

And what if you never find out whether this is typical for Max White or not?

Are you just going to sit around, paralyzed by it?

You can't sit on your hands forever. At some point you're going to have to decide on you're own whether you really mean it or not.

I agree. I would probably have voted Max today if it weren't for Cmega being scummy.

Persus

Why are you buddying me Cmega3? Why should you care so much about a question I asked? It won't have much effect on you and will have a big impact on me. Are you scum that thinks buddying a newbie town will get him lynched?

...Buddying suspicion + a vote? Buddying in this scenario is that much of a tell to place your vote on?

It seemed pretty suspicious to me as the one getting buddied, particularly as I couldn't really think why Cmega3 would ask the question as he isn't the one being voted at the moment. And his question about busing right above his question to Jim seems suspicious in context. Cmega may be a newb, but he hasn't really behaved the way I'd expect him to as a newb. His reasons seem odd even for newb reasons.  And his concern at my question seemed too interested for town.

I think you need to elaborate further on this.

How was his question buddying?

How is he not acting like you'd expect him to?

Broad, hand-wavy arguments aren't convincing and they make it seem like you have reasons when you really don't.

I see you saying that I told Cmega3 to unvote NQT and this is part of the reason I'm scum and deserve lyncing and me and Cmega are scum buddies. Suddenly, at the end  of one of Cmega's posts, he asks you questions about why my question looked so suspicious. Cmega appears to be defending me for a question I asked him that was pretty aggressive and made two people think I'm scummy. This to me appears to be buddying or getting too comfortable with another player who they should think of as a possible scum, not confirmed town. If Cmega was scum, he could realize that buddying me when I currently am already accused of buddying Cmega and being on his scumteam would cause people's alarm bells to go off and cause other players to vote me, resulting in my lynch. When I flip town, Cmega can argue that he is town too since I'm not town and one of the major reasons he looked scummy was because of buddying accusations about me and I flipped town, therefore he isn't scummy and is town. This whole lynching of me D1 distracts from other members of the scumteam that may be currently in danger of being lynched (not saying that parts true) and so gives scum extra time.

This is probably far-fetched and me being paranoid and seeing scummy traits in everyone, but I still think its odd.

@Jim Groove:
Why are Cmega3 and Persus13 scum buddies again?  Also you seem pretty relaxed, are you enjoying yourself?

I accused Persus13 of being buddies with Cmega3 because Persus13 clarified, or reminded, or whatevered, Cmega3 that his uncolored unvote of NQT early in the game was not valid. It looked visibly like Persus13 was looking out for Cmega3, which I found odd and notable and seemed like evidence of collusion. I accused them of being buddies mostly to get a reaction out of Persus13.

I don't find the tell very valid, and it's not a significant part of my case on Persus13. I'm more or less convinced that Persus13 is scum because he has yet to vote anybody despite suspecting Max White.

Relaxed? I'm halfway to full-on swear mode. This game is resembling homework more than a little and I am losing patience.

Oh, then I clearly placed more value in this part of your case from your last post then I should've.

[Persus13]

Shoot, didn't mean to hit post.

Persus

Ah nice strategy you have of making a statement implying I'm scum to get me angry and make a slip-up. How often does this work?
And I mainly learned you consider newbs a nuisance and would prefer it if we stuck to BM.

That's surprisingly useless information. Do you think it was a good use of your time?

And I would totally agree with you on that. However its better than nothing. And while I didn't know what type of questions were good, it does seem to have gotten a conversation going.

If NQT is an important and got lynched accidentally because of that then there would be major problems.

Why are you so worried that NQT is important? Know something we don't?

That was hypothetical. Notice the key use of an if at the start of the sentence. But I think someone getting lynched by accident because the Mod missed an unvote is bad in general. You can't really undo a lynch and it could at worst stop the game. And if I see something I'm confused by I ask a question to get unconfused.

Why are you buddying me Cmega3? Why should you care so much about a question I asked? It won't have much effect on you and will have a big impact on me. Are you scum that thinks buddying a newbie town will get him lynched?

Too little, too late.

For what?

[ToonyMan]

PFP

Yeah alright.  Unvote Jim.


@Cmega3:
Your vote on Max White was poor and Persus13 seems to have retaliated against you.  This seems fishy.  What's your read on Persus13?


@Tiruin (FoS for emphasis):
What do you think of Caz?  Why are you switching your vote so much?

[Imp]

Looks like Caz has requested another extension, I'll add my extend too.  I don't overly care if we extend further or not, but if we get the time I expect we'll use it, and that seems better rather than worse to me.

Er, I was supporting the first extend. Do we really need two at this point? If we get close to day's end with a nolynch, I'll support it.

Whups, thanks for correcting.

Spoiler: objections to my case on Toony (click to show/hide)

Imp— I agree that Toony's play has been subpar but a lot of what you point out could be indicative of a selfish personality rather than role. Right now though he's my second choice for scum. He at least has made an excuse that he's been too busy to participate.

@Imp

[Lots of reasons Toony isn't town aligned]

Alternatively he's working towards a college education to which he's admitted.

Imp

4)"They're" lurking?  Players who can't read Toony are lurking, according to Toony?  Toony is so uncomfortable with his own behavior, so arrogant, so selfish, that he can't even answer "I'm lurking, I guess".  Guess?  Further evasion, deflection, deceit.

I took this to mean "If you can't get a read on someone, it's usually because they're lurking." Not the other way around. I do find fault with Toony's lack of input so far, but lurking isn't enough to warrant a lynch D1, imo. Stick to who is scummy. If Toony fails to participate on D2 (as he promised), we can lynch him then.

Trying to lynch a lurker is also lazy, in my opinion. I find it strange that you're going for Toony's lynch - maybe because he can't really defend himself (hard for him to get several large posts in before the day's end, especially when matched against your own verbosity), and if you lynch him D1, he won't get a chance to.

Imp, so your argument against ToonyMan is that he's scum because he's lazy because he hasn't had the time to post more than superficial content and analysis on players in the game. And that he wants to win without effort.

And that these two points in concert together paint ToonyMan as lazy, selfish, malicious, corner-utting, narrowminded, selfish, lazy, inconsiderate, lazy, selfish scum.

I think you're underestimating the amount of time that school and mafia take (for any college age player there's often not time enough for both), and I think you're extrapolating a pattern on limited evidence.

Is there a right way and a wrong way to lurk, or just one way?

If Toony had said 'Right, I've got this issue and I can't really play for a bit' (he did) and then not played for a bit, that's honest.  He could have logged on, caught up on posts as he had time, asked questions if he had any, let us know he was following the thread a little or a lot, that's honest too.

Instead he weakly and poorly 'Scumhunts'.  Yes, his target is me, but he asks no questions.  When questioned about his stance on me, he disregards the questions and reaffirms his 'certainty' until he starts to recieve votes for his behavior, then he backs down and throws his vote elsewhere.  Now he takes the time to appear to be working much harder at Scumhunting, and maybe he truly is now, which is a total shame because this is probably the time he most needs to put into his studies.

But he didn't have to fake Scumhunting at any point - we're still well inside the time when he said he didn't have time - he could have said 'I don't have time yet' and not done so; instead he decided to say a version of 'I don't have time, but I am doing it anyway', but despite saying this he wasn't but he did try to make the illusion - he decided to mislead instead of be honest.

I remember when he answered thusly:

@Tiruin:

ToonyMan

Also I'm voting Imp for voting a player who doesn't exist, you should know better.

...And this signifies her being or having the characteristic of scum because...?

It's misleading, any form of distraction from the truth can be read as a scumtell and I think Imp is too good a player to make that error.

It's misleading, any form of distraction from the truth can be read as a scumtell

Hrm.  I'd say that Toony's illusion of scumhunting has been misleading and distracting - he says signifies the being or having the characteristic of Scum.  He sure continued it over days, and his motive does not appear to be 'because he believed it was best for the Town', but 'because he believed it protected him' - this is supported by his reaction, when it did not appear to be protecting him anymore, he dropped it like it was hot and ran frantically to give time he probably couldn't afford into supporting his claim that he's Scumhunting; into finding a better way to protect himself.

Your accusation seems primarily that I am a survivor though, which is not true (I am not anti-town of any sort).  Do you think I'm mafia or third-party, exactly?

I don't know.  Your behavior appears to have been anti Town, even if using only your definition to interpret it.  How wrong is it to do what you have done this game, third-party wrong or mafia wrong?  For some flavors of Scum, certain members of the team have survivor as a wincon, right? They lack special powers, and if their team loses the member(s) who do have powers, their only hope of a win is through the vote from what I understood.

I am not viewing Toony as anti-Town because of lurkiness.  I am not viewing him as anti-Town because of things he has not done, or for not having time.  I view what he -has- done as being dishonest and anti-Town.  He could have attempted to lurk with need, but he attempted to create the illusion of Scumhunting instead.  The first is necessary for him, the second is deceptive and it is the second he chose.

That said, there's other Scum to catch and I suspect no one wants to see Toonie die this D.  If he is Scum, this should remain/become apparent as time continues to pass.  For the moment, Unvote.

Oh, and in case it should be said(it was always true) - I hope you got/get high A's, Toony.  Good luck man.

[notquitethere]

Toony

He hasn't been pressured at all for most of the day.  Since nobody had the incentive to I'll go into unexplored territory myself.  He also seemed pushy on me attacking Cmega3 more, so I'd like to learn in further detail why him and Persus13 are scum buddies.

Yeah alright.  Unvote Jim.


@Cmega3:
Your vote on Max White was poor and Persus13 seems to have retaliated against you.  This seems fishy.  What's your read on Persus13?


@Tiruin (FoS for emphasis):
What do you think of Caz?  Why are you switching your vote so much?

I find it amusing that you FOS Tiruin for changing her votes so much when you do so also. I don't think changing your mind is a scum-tell, do you?

Nerjin— interesting that the two players you claimed to have cases on, Max and NQT, you've yet to outline reads for. I eagerly await your follow-up post.

Caz

It just seems like you'd be more genuinely annoyed with someone trying to convince others that you should be lynched.  Yet you're defending his play as if you have no problems with it.
[..]
It's hard to tell at this point, but it looks a bit like townvtown interaction to me.

The thing is, Max is not succeeding in convincing anyone. I still think that in general he reads more town than scum and I'm waiting for him to realise he's chasing a dead-end. I know from experience that not everyone that attacks you is necessarily scum.

Toaster

He also listed several other wincons he had in the past claiming they were unwinnable, including a lot of town roles.

It's worth pointing out that I quickly clarified that I didn't mean to imply that town roles were unwinnable, as Max admits:

Yes, he goes on to correct himself that those are actually winnable, but the implication that his is especially good, being better than the average ones, is still there.

I wasn't trying to imply anything, I was trying to concretely state that I didn't have a bullshit 3rd party role and the game set-up wasn't overwhelmingly stacked against me. Also, of course I'm more confident: it's a fact that I'm a better player now than I was before.

I don't think Max is necessarily scum, he's just barking up entirely the wrong tree here.

Imp

Is there a right way and a wrong way to lurk, or just one way?

A player can be absent with varying degrees of legitimacy. Toony has presented a legitimate reason not to post as much. I still think what he has done is moderately suspicious, but his patchy participation isn't. I think we should see how he performs as time goes on.

What do you think of Cmega and Persus?

[Imp]

Nerjin:

I don't know what you mean by the 'perhaps' cthing.

Look back to your post to get any context or reference from where you quote me if you need those references.

I'm telling you that your post looks almost purely defensive.  And in a way which is shockingly ineffective.  And that it's hard to understand, for me at least, if you are claiming that is what you mean, or if you're just deflecting him with fluff... which is a Scummy choice because if you had a real reason that didn't sound Scummy, you'd state it, right?

By putting qualifiers on your answer, which both 'Perhaps' and 'has it occurred to you' are, you make it look like you are saying that the answer you are giving is not your real reason - thus when you change your reason later it's 'not even lying', because you even said that was only perhaps the reason, you only asked if he'd considered that could be your reason.

Maybe you are intentionally not giving real reasons, I dunno.  Are you giving real reasons and making it sound like they're not real?  Or are you openly giving fake reasons, and why if so?  Part of why I -have- to ask, this statement appears in the same post.... heck, in the same paragraph.... not even 65 words past where you said

Hark! I admit it! I am scum!

Now, surely you meant that as a joke/sarcasm/a poke back at NQT's assumptions. But wait - where does the sarcasm stop?  What can we use to tell when you mean what you say, and when you mean the exact opposite of what you say, or for that matter when you maybe mean what you say and maybe don't? 

Do me the hugest favor ever in this game and only say what you mean from now on, okay?  That would go miles towards helping me understand you, your thinking, and your intentions - and it probably won't make it harder for anyone else to understand those either.  You appear to me to be walking boldly towards being the D1 lynch, head up and eyes open.  I'm fine with that if you're Scum.  I'm going to be annoyed -with you- if you be a mislynch in the making because boy, you are effectively saying 'pick me!  pick me!'.
There's another thing that you're doing which is driving me crazy.  Not 'I can't stand it, stop it stop it stop it' crazy, but the sort of crazy you get when you're a newbie and your Scummy senses are starting to grow in or something and they start to pick stuff up.

Explain this, please - At 09:17:59 pm your post includes

I refuse to mention EVERYONE at this point or to elaborate on fetal stage cases.
...
As I just explained I won't give out fetal stage cases.

And then you start doing what less than 13 hours earlier you'd said again... not for the first time in the thread, but again!... that you refused to do.

Well I'm gonna have to double post since getting this out seems somewhat important. I'll have reads and the like on everyone here in a bit.

Wait.  Full stop.  You've repeatedly posted that you 'Would.  Not.  Do.  This.'  And now, half a day later, without a single reason given, you're suddenly doing what you said you refused to do.

Don't do that!  If you're going to change your mind, your strongly held mind, your absolute and repeatedly stated, no chance it's a typo, no this is what you mean mind - explain yourself!  How is the need to do that not obvious?

Now, searching the thread between your last refusal, and your sudden reversal, I see one thing only that might have been a reason for you to change your mind.

Toaster has voted for you... heck, his words around that vote are even qualified like yours sometimes are -

What if I say I don't believe that, and instead say you're pointing fingers with nothing to back it up?  I think you're doing that, Nerjin.
...
My vote is more pressure than lynch right now, so I encourage people to do their own homework right now.  Once I have something more solid and want to convince people, then I'll present a full case.

I don't know if he's doing this to mock you, to teach you, to talk to you in a language you might best understand (because you appear to be using similar) or what his reasoning is.

But wow do you jump to his.... I have to call it 'a gentle vote'.  That's got to be the gentlest vote placement I've seen so far.

Oh fuck off. This late in the day there is no such thing as a pressure vote. If you're not voting the person you think is scummiest you're wasting everyone's time.

Sure, there's also another conversational post from notquitethere, but he's been having those exchanges with you for days now.... that one doesn't seem significantly different (funnier, but not different).

So what are you doing and why are you doing it?  I need help understanding your motives and your reasoning - how is what you are doing (both before and now) serving your wincon, and if it's not - why are you wasting so much time (then or now) on non-wincon achieving behaviors?

[Imp]

What do you think of Cmega and Persus?

I think.... wow I think I need to go to sleep, they both look like I need some sleep.

Gut level and memory-based unverified level - Cmega seems quite newbie, unclassified Town or Scum.  Persus13 is 'weird'.  Super hard to explain why weird, mostly because of comparisons to play in currently ongoing game.  Possibly explicable as 'feeling over his head' and acting erratically as confidence surges and wans.  I'm still studying the murkiness.

I'm currently unvoted.  I'm to tired to fix that right now.  That's not an abstain, I'll be active again in about 7 hours.

[Nerjin]

If Toony had said 'Right, I've got this issue and I can't really play for a bit' (he did) and then not played for a bit, that's honest.  He could have logged on, caught up on posts as he had time, asked questions if he had any, let us know he was following the thread a little or a lot, that's honest too.

Instead he weakly and poorly 'Scumhunts'.  Yes, his target is me, but he asks no questions.  When questioned about his stance on me, he disregards the questions and reaffirms his 'certainty' until he starts to recieve votes for his behavior, then he backs down and throws his vote elsewhere.  Now he takes the time to appear to be working much harder at Scumhunting, and maybe he truly is now, which is a total shame because this is probably the time he most needs to put into his studies.

But he didn't have to fake Scumhunting at any point - we're still well inside the time when he said he didn't have time - he could have said 'I don't have time yet' and not done so; instead he decided to say a version of 'I don't have time, but I am doing it anyway', but despite saying this he wasn't but he did try to make the illusion - he decided to mislead instead of be honest.

What do you really want him to do? It seems to me that regardless of how he acts you're going to call him out on this

Nerjin:
Do me the hugest favor ever in this game and only say what you mean from now on, okay?  That would go miles towards helping me understand you, your thinking, and your intentions - and it probably won't make it harder for anyone else to understand those either.  You appear to me to be walking boldly towards being the D1 lynch, head up and eyes open.  I'm fine with that if you're Scum.  I'm going to be annoyed -with you- if you be a mislynch in the making because boy, you are effectively saying 'pick me!  pick me!'.

Alright, I'll do just that. Be annoyed at me all you like. Bad town play happens. Besides, I have a reputation to uphold.

There's another thing that you're doing which is driving me crazy.  Not 'I can't stand it, stop it stop it stop it' crazy, but the sort of crazy you get when you're a newbie and your Scummy senses are starting to grow in or something and they start to pick stuff up.

Explain this, please - At 09:17:59 pm your post includes

I refuse to mention EVERYONE at this point or to elaborate on fetal stage cases.
...
As I just explained I won't give out fetal stage cases.

And then you start doing what less than 13 hours earlier you'd said again... not for the first time in the thread, but again!... that you refused to do.

Well I'm gonna have to double post since getting this out seems somewhat important. I'll have reads and the like on everyone here in a bit.

Wait.  Full stop.  You've repeatedly posted that you 'Would.  Not.  Do.  This.'  And now, half a day later, without a single reason given, you're suddenly doing what you said you refused to do.

Don't do that!  If you're going to change your mind, your strongly held mind, your absolute and repeatedly stated, no chance it's a typo, no this is what you mean mind - explain yourself!  How is the need to do that not obvious?

Well when you're about to die you've gotta give out what you have. Regardless of whether you want to or not.

What if I say I don't believe that, and instead say you're pointing fingers with nothing to back it up?  I think you're doing that, Nerjin.
...
My vote is more pressure than lynch right now, so I encourage people to do their own homework right now.  Once I have something more solid and want to convince people, then I'll present a full case.

I don't know if he's doing this to mock you, to teach you, to talk to you in a language you might best understand (because you appear to be using similar) or what his reasoning is.

But wow do you jump to his.... I have to call it 'a gentle vote'.  That's got to be the gentlest vote placement I've seen so far.

Oh fuck off. This late in the day there is no such thing as a pressure vote. If you're not voting the person you think is scummiest you're wasting everyone's time.

Sure, there's also another conversational post from notquitethere, but he's been having those exchanges with you for days now.... that one doesn't seem significantly different (funnier, but not different).

So what are you doing and why are you doing it?  I need help understanding your motives and your reasoning - how is what you are doing (both before and now) serving your wincon, and if it's not - why are you wasting so much time (then or now) on non-wincon achieving behaviors?

Why did I act like that? Simple, financial troubles and lots of stress tend to make me a little lashy. I'll admit I'm not doing too hot on this one. What I'm trying to do now is at least explain my views before I die.

Well now that my replies to those posts are out of the way back to writing out my views on the players.

[Nerjin]

Due to limited time left I’m just going to focus on 3 players: Max White, NotQuiteThere, and Imp as they are the ones I suspect most.

Max White:
Null-Lean-Scum
I still find that his pursuit of a case on NQT is mostly based on nothing. All the mistakes he states could just as easily be poor town play or the like. How sure am I that he is scum? About 25%. Pretty low for a vote BUT it’s the portion where he states, with no uncertainty, that he’ll see NQT lynched that made me think that while perhaps Max White is just being overly aggressive over very little there’s also a distinct possibility that he picked an easy target [someone who has made a TON of mistakes] and just couldn’t back out when his attempt at getting a bandwagon going failed because of how single-mindedly he pursued the case. That being said…

Notquitethere:
Null-lean-scum
All the things I’ve defended? All the things Max has pursued with doggedness? Notquitethere trying to force there to be a “Yes/No” between me or Max being correct? Well that leads me to get some vague ideas that he’s either scum or fail-town [not as fail-town as me apparently but still]. So while I don’t think anything he’s done is inherently scummy I do believe that they could be indicators towards it.

Imp:
Null-lean-light-scum
Other than his thing with Toony which seems really odd [“If he comes on and does as much scum-hunting as he can he’s both scummy and town” thing that he just said was really weird] and his inherent love of HUGE walls of texts that could easily be reduced by hundreds of words and still get the same thing out there. I’m not sure if he’s an excited newbie or he’s trying to hide something by being verbose [I know I do it so I’m willing to bet that other people might do it.]. All and all I’m REALLY not sure on him but if I had to pick a third player I’m suspicious of it’d be Imp.

I don’t really have time to go into too much more detail but hopefully that helps clear up some things and give my view on some others.