ToasterThese are two separate possibilities. You could be scum, AND Max could be overreacting to a minor tell. It is totally possible that both claims are correct- they are NOT mutually exclusive.
If Max is right for the wrong reasons, then again, both arguments can be correct. Don't try to set them up as opposites when they are not.
A fair point given my specific wording. Not actually being scum, I had already discounted that possibility, but I can't expect you to take that on faith. A clearer way of formulating it is: Max claims that my actions thus far have been enough to mark me out as scum. I know this is incorrect, but I'd much rather players appraise his arguments and come to the rational conclusion on their own.
You're voting Toony and I agree his case on Imp is weak. Do you think other people should follow your vote? (I only ask because Day one often ends with the vote split between half a dozen candidates, a situation that makes it easy for a mislynch to occur.)
JimSo why did you wait until now to change your vote if your vote on Persus13 was pretty much dead weight when you decided that the time was right to focus everybody's attention on Nerjin and Max White?
Well I still wanted to hear Persus's response. Perhaps weak pressure voting is a bogus strategy and shouldn't be encouraged, still if I do have such a vote it doesn't do to undermine it by switching it before I even get a response. If Persus had evaded or given a more suspicious response I'd have kept the vote on him and pursued it further.
Why Nerjin, anyway? Suspecting him because he hasn't done his lip service to asking everybody questions strikes me as a weak reason for a vote.
No it's more than that. I wouldn't care if he didn't ask random/hypothetical questions at the beginning of the game. Functionally, that stuff is mostly just to get people posting. No it's more than that, he hasn't actively engaged more than three people in the entire game. I counted. He's playing almost completely passively, answering questions and pursuing a single case. Also, as I will go on to explain to Nerjin below, this behaviour fits completely with his recent scum-meta and is completely contrary to his recent town-meta.
ToonyAnd in the very post you quote me giving reasons on other suspects like Tiruin or Nerjin who I would easily vote if I wasn't particular to Imp right now.
I just don't buy your case against Imp. She mistakes the game for a Bastard and harmlessly pursues that line until she's proven mistaken and then she immediately switches to engaging everyone with questions and playing the game as normal. In what way is that a scum-tell?
NerjinIs it tunneling if I pursue the person who seems scummiest to me? Do I have to carry the whole game? Every other player is questioning everyone else. Me re-asking the same question would accomplish nothing more than inflating posts. Wall'o'texts aren't legible as a rule. I'm paying attention to everything everyone is saying and I do have a few suspicions and a moderately decent case for another player outside Max. But it's just that: Moderately decent. I don't feel that it's strong enough to merit mention. But as a whole: Yes, I do try to stick where I need to in order to not gum up the works of the game. No, tunneling [when it IS tunneling] is not helpful.
I just don't believe you. I took a moment to reflect and I thought,
maybe Nerjin is really just quite lazy about scumhunting. There are such players (*cough* Ottofar *cough*). So I looked back at some of your previous games.
The last game you played town in you asked
everyone questions in your first post. There were eight other players, and yet you have trouble when there are just two more? Well, thought I, what does Nerjin look like when he played scum, so
I looked and lo and behold, in your first post you passively answer the questions posed to you and then press a single question.
Okay, maybe that was just coincidence, thought I, so I looked at
another recent game where you played town and again there are eight other players and again you ask everyone questions. Hmm. Well, let's see how you play as scum in yet
another game. Surprise surprise, your first post is passive answering of questions and the pressing of a single case.
This all isn't really very surprising: in general scum struggle to earnestly scumhunt and prefer to passively react. I've detailed all this
elsewhere. Your whole play this game is screaming scum-Nerjin and the only way I'm going to be convinced otherwise is if you start upping your game and demonstrating that you've actually examined
all the players and are genuinely hunting scum.
And yes, Nerjin, each
town player does have to try to carry the game: they cannot rely on any one of their fellows doing it for them.
PersusI'm glad I'm back too. At the moment I'd vote Max, but until someone answers my questions on playstyle I'm going to wait. I'm doing what I normally do, look for things I find confusing or wrong and ask questions on them or just point them out. This sometimes gives me good reads. Is being defensive, attacking someone defending you, and analyzing people asking questions normal for you?
I looked back and didn't spot a question on play-style, where did I miss it? Being defensive is
very normal for me; attacking players that are suspicious is good play and you should never be swayed by the fact that they're defending you: buddying is the oldest trick in the book of scum; analysis is mostly how I form reads: players rarely make fatal slips, but the shape of their over-all play can give them away. People don't tend to like my analysis and it's nowhere near as infallible as I'd like but I believe I hone in on more relevant factors with every game. Scum, third-parties and poor town players generally keep a low profile and don't press many cases, good town players genuinely suspect everyone and press a lot of cases. I was able to use this fact to 100% identify who was town (if not who was scum) in the recent
Witches game.
I think there is definitely a pretty clear Day One tell. I'll reveal it after the RVS.
I may have missed this, but have you revealed this yet?
Chiefly what I was just saying, but more specifically, players who don't follow up on the answers to their Day 1 questions are often scum or third party just going through the motions. Hopefully, if I get the time, I'll try and chase up whether everyone chased up.
Imp[/quote]
Seeing someone's roleflip as a Cult-Scum type is the clearest clue I can imagine now.
[...]
What are your thoughts on how to detect a Cult?
Detecting a cult is much easier if you're scum, because you can rule out your fellows and can more clearly watch for patterns of tacit collusion in voting (cult members typically won't bus each other and will tend to enable the lynching of non-cultists), but regardless of alignment, looking for teams in the voting over the course of the game is hard given the unstable/growing membership of a cult. I'll give it a bit more thought.
Cult-hunting in general, while there is no evidence of a cult, is pretty scummy behaviour as it detracts from what town's main focus should be.
On that note: your vote is on Toony. Several other players believe his vote on you is generally weak, but why does that make him more likely scum than any other player?