On that note: your vote is on Toony. Several other players believe his vote on you is generally weak, but why does that make him more likely scum than any other player?
tl;dr summary, Imp's 'case' on Toony:
Toony does not appear at any point to be working towards a Town wincon, even accounting for his extremely limited playtime time. He appears to be working to create the illusion of scumhunting without any indication that he is concerned about anything other than protecting himself. What appears to be scumhunting from him is largely disconnected from other instances of apparent scumhunting (with the exception of keeping his vote upon me for the sole reason he gave when placing it) and he attempts absolutely no follow through until he is strongly attacked. He does not try to verify anything, challenge anything, or achieve anything other than that goal of self protection and continued survival (thus the illusion of scumhunting) and this shows in every post he has made this game.Here are my observations. All bolding is my own, I have removed any previously present bolding to clarify my emphasis.
EVERYONE: What role would you most like to have and why?
The role that let's me win without having to do anything.
1) This statement shows goals of self centeredness, corner cutting, and laziness. That's very generous of him to openly tell us to say, especially if it's honest and serious. It also does match what I see of his philosophy and playstyle this game. Extremely tuned towards 'not having to do [much of] anything.' I don't see this as a Town attitude. I'm surprised he even alluded to having this attitude - but he goes on to display it in multiple ways over time.
@Max White:
Toony
Putting your education before internet games, for shame!
Will you have a chance to really be active any time soon? I have no read on you what so ever, and that annoys me.
Unfortunately, probably not until Friday or this weekend. Ideally, I won't die by then so it should work out.
2) Selfish, narrowminded, inconsiderate. This would be "ideal" for whom? This will "work out" for whom? No one but Toony. And he's talking about his not dying. He's promising activity - whatever that means to a person who's said the role he most wants is one that "let's [him] win without having to do anything."
@Imp:
I think Imp is too good a player to make that error
What are you basing this belief upon?
If you lack the self-esteem to see yourself as a skilled player I should say by my impressions you seem pretty competent or at least proactive.
3) Lazy, grabbing any answer convenient, not actualy bothering to answer the question asked. Even in what I below credit as his 'Scumhunting' - nothing he questions or challenges in this game has required more than a few glances at the thread to pick up. There's no deeper thought, no actual work done by him. To say "[his] impressions" given the level of play he has shown so far and claims to be able to currently provide -this is akin to saying in "[his] imagination".
When I challenged Toony about his having made so little of a presence for so long, that one player's claimed he had no read of him whatsoever, his answer -
A lack of a read is not a scumtell or a towntell. You can say they're lurking I guess.
4)"They're" lurking? Players who can't read Toony are lurking, according to Toony? Toony is so uncomfortable with his own behavior, so arrogant, so selfish, that he can't even answer "I'm lurking, I guess". Guess? Further evasion, deflection, deceit.
Oh right, if you expect anything better from me you would be good and extend.
5) Either didn't bother to check the game's rules about extension limits (as he later indirectly claims) or just doesn't care. Just not caring could explain not bothering to check and isn't contradicted by any evident care or effort in any other part of his play this game. Toony's here to 'win easy, if he can', just like he said in his first post. Game can work around him, players can wait on him. This would be acceptable to me, if Toony had been saying 'I can't play yet, I can't give this game what it deserves yet'. Instead, he keeps his focus on being here to 'win easy, if he can' - thus his illusion of scumhunting.
6) Except Town is extremely unlikely to win 'easy', or by 'accident'. I do not believe that Toony believes that he can glance at the thread and pick out sure Scumtells and win as Town by doing that as his strategy. But that could work if he were Scum, thus had a list of players known not to be Scum, any of which were good targets to be lynched by him to help ensure his win; he could skim those players posts and grab anything convenient and just ride that vote to likely success without much effort, as long as no one made that too unpleasant to achieve. Or if he were some third party role which did not care who was lynched, especially at this point.
This is everything I can find from him that appears at all to be focused on Scumhunting. Otherwise all of his words appear to me to be focused on answering questions, once offering additional information, several times offering excuses, and a frequent focus on self defense.1st post -
Also I'm voting Imp for voting a player who doesn't exist, you should know better.
No follow up, no examination, nothing but a vote with a statement.
2nd post - no scumhunting.
3rd post - no scumhunting.
4th post@Cmega3:
Max white, could you please calm down a bit?
You are acting rather weird.
This is a bandwagon vote.
NQT and Max White are being kind of dicks at each other, and judging by NQT and Dariush acting against each other in WC3 one of them is most likely town at least. I doubt both are scum of some sort.
To me each of these challenges barely qualify as scumhunting, especially without follow up, but I am trying to identify everything that even hints of Scumhunting in Toony's posts.
5th postWhen it's my first post of the game and I prefer not asking RVS questions. I don't feel particularly keen on moving it right now, maybe Tiruin for being defensive (that vote on Caz was pretty bad) or Nerjin for going for easy targets (first Imp with me, now Max White with somebody). Max White and NQT seems like too much of a gamble since either or both is/are likely town I feel.
This quick, weak, unsupported list of suspects looks thrown together in great haste to me. Grabbed helter skelter, to make it look like he's scumhunting, when a more true answer seems to be along the lines of "I don't have time for this, I haven't been following it; no chance I'll follow up on this either".
@Cmega3:
@Cmega3:
Max white, could you please calm down a bit?
You are acting rather weird.
This is a bandwagon vote.
The fact that someone voted for him before did not affect my opinion. I knew there had been a vote, but I didn't pay much attention to it.
Oh pish-posh. I've used that excuse before, but it doesn't change your lackluster post there. You explained your reasoning now though so it's better.
This is kind of scum hunting. I'm not sure how much 'better' means. All better? It's not followed up on (yet), so apparently 'better' is good enough for now.
6th post - no scumhunting.
7th post - no scumhunting.
8th postYou don't post like a newbie player, at all...
...
So you're drawing the inexperienced card now?
@Jim Groove:
Why are Cmega3 and Persus13 scum buddies again? Also you seem pretty relaxed, are you enjoying yourself?
The scumhunting towards me, the first two quoted sentences is greatly weakened by the addition of "
I don't even care anymore. Unvote Imp."
The vote and questions towards Jim appear to be quickly snatched from whatever he had time to scan and jump on.
7)
This compilation of Toony's scumhunting does not display any real scumhunting. The fake version looks a little like it; but there's no focus towards finding Scum. Nor is there honest admission of not having time to do a good job, there's no concern about doing a bad job instead of a good job. It does look like he's trying to cover himself, protect himself, make it look like he's trying. If this is 'working towards his wincon', that wincon one that doesn't matter if the target is actually lynched or not, one that doesn't matter if the target is actually Scum or not, and one that mostly just requires that Toony for now at least not be lynched.Is Toony doing this so he can just survive? So he can take night actions that do advance his wincon? Because there's no clear vote lead on anyone when he looks (thus no Scum is in great danger) and he doesn't have to care who's lynched as long as it continues to probably not be him?
I don't know. I wonder those questions, but as I search everything I see from him seems to be working without regard for a Town win - even with the qualifier of 'I have no time! I've had no time all game!', Toony appears to be working towards his own survival - period.