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Author Topic: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!  (Read 85199 times)

Jim Groovester

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
« Reply #210 on: September 13, 2012, 03:53:29 am »

I get the sense that the game is slowing down because of me. For that I apologize.

Well done markressler. Until such a time as more evidence presents itself I stand by my case that Mark is a scum. And now for flavor.

This is several days late, but not so fast.

I dislike your congratulations here, since it reveals that you think you're incredibly certain about markressler being scum. Believing somebody is scum to the point of certainty is usually a problem, but especially so in Beginner's Mafias since nobody knows what they're doing and hence they're probably wrong.

You also can't really accuse any player of performing the night kill, since there's no way it could ever lead to any specific player. If you're going to call a player scum, it should only be in reference to evidence that's happened during the day or role results. That's for the most part the only legitimate evidence that can be used in role-light setup like this.

1.   I don’t see how I pander like a schoolchild but I think I know what you mean. Jim is a teacher here so I find it appropriate to give him a decent amount of respect as he is taking time from his busy schedule to inform us on how to play the game. That being said the second he tries anything scummy I’m voting for him.

On the one hand, I like it when people are deferential to me.

On the other hand, I don't like it when people are deferential to me.

All I care is that you respect my lessons. The man who gives them out, less so.

Jim: You're being non-commital, and the only player you've seriously pressed (me) is the only one that has engaged you at all.  Why? And what would you have done if you were Sox, unsure of either player's guilt but with the power to break a tie? 

Noncommittal is putting it nicely.

Before Day 1 ended, I was planning on going through the thread and finding things to question of Kamin and Nerjin since my gut was telling me that they're suspicious, as well as cast a vote on somebody. (I still plan on doing this but it'll have to wait for sometime tomorrow.) However, the day ended 16 hours earlier than I expected, since the mod lives in GMT+8 and I live in GMT-8. By the time I woke up the day was over.

Breaking a tie is sometimes easy and sometimes hard. If it's a choice between a player you're suspicious of who is not your top suspect and another who isn't your suspect, then the choice is obviously easy. From where I stood near the end of Day 1, I had no strong suspicion of either kingfisher111111112 or Wrex. The choice was not ideal at all, and I don't think I would've made a choice one way or the other. I make a big deal about any lynch being better than a no lynch, but then I'd be willing to coward out if I didn't have a reason to think either of the two players were scum. I would have voted who I thought was scum, tie be damned.

Hypocrite, much?

Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell, as brought up by Shakerag.

[Flavor post! Doesn't impact the game.]

Anything you post has an impact on the game.

Anything you say is potential material for someone to use against you whether you meant it to or not.

Now that Wrex is gone, we don't even have a cop to point your scummy ass out of the crowd.

But who needs a cop when there's players like you!

Decrying the loss of town players does nothing. What's your primary goal? To find scum. How does mourning the loss of dearly departed members of the town help you do that?

I suspect you did this because you think it makes you look more town. Well, it doesn't. Nightkills are a basic fact of mafia. They happen, it sucks. No use worrying about it. Anybody who does looks weird and they look like they're trying to look town in the hollowest way possible, which is scummy.

Here you go again. I didn't bandwagon Mark. I've explained that to you. And I'm rightly tired of you digging for some other answer that doesn't exist, Vodot. Now that Wrex is gone, we don't even have a cop to point your scummy ass out of the crowd. I've been pretty adamant that I think you're scum, just like last time--your probing won't change that. Oh, and here's my "evidence" again (we've been over this, just as I explained to you how "evidence" works in this game.)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588182#msg3588182

That's your evidence?

That's the emptiest string of accusation devoid of evidence I've seen in a long time.

You can't shout out empty accusations and then claim that a player complaining about empty accusations is evidence that they're scum. You'll find that pretty much everyone has a problem with empty accusations.

I love your witch hunt, Vodot, but I'm afraid the one pointing the finger is actually the one to blame. You don't seem all that upset about Shakerag; why is that? Are you upset with your NK decision because Shake was only a vanilla townie? I imagine Jim is the next on your NK/lynch list, huh? God knows those ICs are dangerous!

Yet more empty accusations.

You're throwing accusations at vodot that you don't have a chance in hell of ever proving, much less ever having even a shred of basis, so why are you throwing them out there?

There's literally nothing about the nightkill that could ever point to any specific player; that's the whole point of it. Any arguments based on it are automatically flawed for that reason.

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.
That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

It's not that scummy.

Vodot: The funny thing about your "evidence" is that it would only be satisfied by a copy of the Role PM. Very cute, and hardly absolving on your part. You're pulling the "Sox Defense": Try your hardest to make a claim about yourself seem insubstantial by selectively reading it--then weakly try to turn it around on the one asking the questions.

Useless hyperbole.

Get a case and try again.

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.
[Lurk moar, newb.]

Shawt up.
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I understood nothing, contributed nothing, but still got to win, so good game everybody else.

Dariush

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
« Reply #211 on: September 13, 2012, 06:41:15 am »

kingfisher1112

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
« Reply #212 on: September 13, 2012, 08:15:49 am »

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Ermey: 26/4/13

wsoxfan

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
« Reply #213 on: September 13, 2012, 07:12:15 pm »

Mod:If Mark hasn't responded yet to your prod, can we put him up for replacement? As in now?
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Tiruin

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BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #214 on: September 13, 2012, 10:52:12 pm »

Mod:If Mark hasn't responded yet to your prod, can we put him up for replacement? As in now?
Well, I just came back online and it's past the 24 hour prod-poke.

So, yes. markressler is up for replacement! Checking his profile, it seems he's been gone for quite a long time without prior notice.



"Sir Knight, are you coming back to the table soon?"

"Just a bit...this is just like the water of life!"

"But everyone else is waiting!"

"One. More."
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wsoxfan

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #215 on: September 14, 2012, 07:29:59 am »

@allLurk moar newbs.
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Shakerag

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #216 on: September 14, 2012, 02:17:41 pm »

[DAY 2 STATS:

wsoxfan: 7 posts, no votes, last posted 7 hours ago.

kingfisher1112: 6 posts, not voting, last posted 30 hours ago.

Jim Groovester: 3 posts, no votes, last posted 35 hours ago.

Kamin: 4 posts, voting vodot, last posted 43 hours ago.

vodot: 5 posts, not voting, last posted 43 hours ago.

Nerjin: 5 posts, voting markressler, last posted 50 hours ago.

So, would any and or all of you like to continue playing the fucking game you signed up for?  Let's see some activity; let's see some scumhunting; and let's see some of you voting for who you think is scum.

You've got a full previous day of posts to draw from.  You've got two confirmed roleflips.  The material is there, now you just need to do something with it.

If you're going to complain about not knowing what to do, don't.  You will get no sympathy.  There is plenty of information to go on and make a meaningful post from.  If you're really truly lost, post something anyway, and the ICs will nudge you on the right path.  We respond much much better to earnest (if misguided) effort, not whining. 

If you're bored or maybe this is too hard for you then at least grow a pair and ask for a replacement before scurrying off to write your brony fanfic instead of lurking out of the game.  This is not directed at anyone in particular, before one of you gets your panties in a bunch.]

wsoxfan

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #217 on: September 14, 2012, 06:25:00 pm »

*sigh* starting a re-read. If lurking is scummy, then everyone is scum. Dammit people, post!
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Tiruin

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #218 on: September 14, 2012, 07:26:48 pm »

[If you're bored or maybe this is too hard for you then at least grow a pair and ask for a replacement [...]
Oh dear, too many replacements! D:

Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.

    > Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
    > If you stop playing my game altogether without notifying me, I will come looking for you.
    > Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
Let's do this. Happy Weekends!
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webadict

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #219 on: September 14, 2012, 07:36:23 pm »

Need a replacement?
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Tiruin

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #220 on: September 14, 2012, 07:40:38 pm »

Need a replacement?
For markressler, yes. He's been inactive for more than 5 days (well, not posted for more than that) and hasn't replied to my prods.
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webadict

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #221 on: September 14, 2012, 08:22:40 pm »

Need a replacement?
For markressler, yes. He's been inactive for more than 5 days (well, not posted for more than that) and hasn't replied to my prods.
Okay.
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Nerjin

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #222 on: September 14, 2012, 08:31:40 pm »

I have said everything that I think needs said. When others post a bit more I will be more than happy to analyze their posts. You also left Mark off that list. I still think he's scum. Vote Mark 2012 Scum-Mayor award. Why do I think he's scum? See my previous entries on the matter.
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The demon code prevents me from declining a rock-off challenge.

Is the admiral of the SS Lapidot.

vodot

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #223 on: September 14, 2012, 10:17:00 pm »

Eh, I've got my target, but I only made it about a third of the way through my research. I need a couple hours to just sit and lay it out, and I think I have enough; but when I post, I'm going to want this guy lynched. It's a totally different game than I've been playing so far. 

[Building the casefile for an aggressive Lynch is way harder than hardassery or asking good questions.]

Honestly, after I saw the extension go through, I've been planning on waiting for the weekend to knock this out and actually do it right.  But if you're going to moan about it so hard, Shake, maybe I'll try to get it done tonight.  I feel like doing it half-assed is just way worse than not doing it at all, though, with everything under so much scrutiny.

We'll see. Kamin, if you intend on responding to Jim's questions before I go and pile onto you my critical examination of every one of your posts so far, the time to do it would be now.
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wsoxfan

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Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
« Reply #224 on: September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm »

@kamin-
Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?
Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot
I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.
Given that context, yes it's a little out of line. However, if you don't think I'm posting enough content, then ask me questions to post more content. My read on this was that you FoSed me simply so you could get a reaction to save you some work. The reason I haven't voted yet is primarily because I'm not seeing anyone who looks to be definite scum. I probably would have voted Wrex, however he's up for replacement now, and I'll have to wait for a replacement to get a better read on him. And I understand that you aren't voting me-thankfully I'm not colorblind :D. While you're right that you have to give them a background check, you can't just step foward and say, "here's this, this, and that information. Make of it what you will." I feel that it's less scummy to wait until you're asked for information to give it. I hope that adressed your questions(btw, ironically enough, if this was the last BM, I'd actually be one of the more active players at this point. I'm not saying that it's the reason for a low post count, I'm just pointing out how much more active this is)
You're right, and I appreciate you being candid. I just suppose that I'm kind of on the fence about asking questions now, since we're past the RVS stage (although I'm not entirely clear why that means we shouldn't ask questions in some form or another). However, I'm not blaming you for that; I blame myself for not asking you before RVS and understanding the game as well as I should. If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else  :P
Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] ::).(post in question shown below.

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.
My reasons for voting Wrex? First of all, I was not happy about being forced into that situation. I was not completely convinced that he was scum, and would have liked more time. However, I voted for him because I have heard numerous times(including once from Hapah on this thread) that a no-lynch on D1 is bad. Of the two who were on the chopping block, I found Wrex much scummier than you, and though I would have appreciated more time to feel around more, though no one asked for an extend-so I decided to forgo it as well. Also, if you look at my posts(which you clearly have since you have such exact numbers) you will see that I had several reasons there for finding him scummy. However, I am curious to see your though process, so while I do a more detailed reread, tell me who you think is scum.
Sox: You seemed pretty quick to vote for Wrex. You did not ask for an extension, and that's on you. Just because nobody else voiced a wish for it doesn't mean that you shouldn't--you just voted. 
Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.
That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin
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