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[IronyOwl]

If you thought about your attack of not liking my scumhunting style, you'd realize that's how I fucking scumhunt. It's a nulltell. All you've got are nulltells but oh no, you want to go on the lynch wagon. Fuck you.

Okay, it's how you scumhunt. How is this different from policy lynching Org, then? You're being absolutely worthless when I know you don't have to be, so I'm going to lynch you. If you're scum, hurray! If you're not scum, hopefully you'll learn to be worth a damn.

But seriously, look back at the day. Look at the posting patterns. Look at how many times lemon has posted. Look at how many times Jokerman has posted. Keep your vote on me, fine, but call an extension so that these lurkers will stop lurking. I find it frankly unacceptable to be lynched when Jokerman has not posted at all today. The fact the day's ending on Thanksgiving is also bullshit. Most of the playerbase probably can't even post. In about an hour, I won't be able to post either (not that it matter since the day's ending in 20 minutes.)

If you find it unacceptable, you should have called them on it earlier, when you had nothing to do because nobody was giving you anything to do. You didn't mention it until it became apparent that you needed to deflect onto them, at which point suddenly it's scummy. You had nothing, but there was all this lurking going on the whole time? Weird.

[Jokerman-EXE]

But seriously, look back at the day. Look at the posting patterns. Look at how many times lemon has posted. Look at how many times Jokerman has posted. Keep your vote on me, fine, but call an extension so that these lurkers will stop lurking. I find it frankly unacceptable to be lynched when Jokerman has not posted at all today. The fact the day's ending on Thanksgiving is also bullshit. Most of the playerbase probably can't even post. In about an hour, I won't be able to post either (not that it matter since the day's ending in 20 minutes.)

Nice attempt at a deflection, but if you actually looked you'd see that I have posted, both this physical day and this game day. I've posed my suspicions on Jet and asked him questions that he has yet to answer. In addition, it's the fucking holiday and everyone is busy.

But seriously, nice deflection. I was almost suspicious of me for a while there. /sarcasm

[Mr.Person]

No no, I never said lurking was scummy. I was merely pointing out a distinct lack of posts. Just a request of action, that's all. Believe me, I know what it's like to accidentally miss a day then get yelled at. I'm just saying I wish to hear more from a few people who haven't posted much. If I thought somebody was scummy for lurking, I'd be voting that player.

I apparently did miss a post by you, Jokerman. My read-through must be significantly worse than I was giving it credit for being. I guess it's time to reread the thread. That's going to suck. The worst part is I'll probably finish it just as the day ends tomorrow. Oh well, it's not time sensitive. Either I'll be dead or I won't, but either way I'll be holding onto IronyOwl for bullshit reasoning for voting me.

@IronyOwl: There's no such thing as OMGUS. What you're looking for is "reasonless vote", and I've stated my reason for voting you. If you want to come forward with something I've done that's actually scummy, that'd be great, but I seriously doubt any such thing exists.

If you thought about your attack of not liking my scumhunting style, you'd realize that's how I fucking scumhunt. It's a nulltell. All you've got are nulltells but oh no, you want to go on the lynch wagon. Fuck you.

Okay, it's how you scumhunt. How is this different from policy lynching Org, then? You're being absolutely worthless when I know you don't have to be, so I'm going to lynch you. If you're scum, hurray! If you're not scum, hopefully you'll learn to be worth a damn.

It's not any different from policy lynching Org, which we've all agree'd is a bad idea. So why are you trying to push a policy lynch on me? If I'm doing anything abnormal, please say so. If all you've got is what I normally do and you don't like it, well, that's not my problem.

But seriously, look back at the day. Look at the posting patterns. Look at how many times lemon has posted. Look at how many times Jokerman has posted. Keep your vote on me, fine, but call an extension so that these lurkers will stop lurking. I find it frankly unacceptable to be lynched when Jokerman has not posted at all today. The fact the day's ending on Thanksgiving is also bullshit. Most of the playerbase probably can't even post. In about an hour, I won't be able to post either (not that it matter since the day's ending in 20 minutes.)

If you find it unacceptable, you should have called them on it earlier, when you had nothing to do because nobody was giving you anything to do. You didn't mention it until it became apparent that you needed to deflect onto them, at which point suddenly it's scummy. You had nothing, but there was all this lurking going on the whole time? Weird.

I'm a nice guy, I was giving them all time to post. It really pisses me off when people complain I'm not posting when I either haven't been physically able to post or there's still time left for me to post. It's really fucking annoying when both are true. So I try and avoid being "that guy", but at this point, it's gotten a touch silly how little lemon and Toaster have posted.

In hindsight, prodding the lurkers yesterday would of been a good idea. Oh well, what's past is done. I'd like to hear lemon's thoughts tomorrow and I'd really like to know why he didn't call for an extension. I'm also interested in what exactly Jokerman means by "deflection". I don't get what's scummy about pointing out what the other players are doing.

[IronyOwl]

No no, I never said lurking was scummy. I was merely pointing out a distinct lack of posts. Just a request of action, that's all. Believe me, I know what it's like to accidentally miss a day then get yelled at. I'm just saying I wish to hear more from a few people who haven't posted much. If I thought somebody was scummy for lurking, I'd be voting that player.

So you don't see any problem with people being useless to town. Your own excuse for not having any suspicions was even based on nobody else doing anything, and you still feel this way? I'd like to ask why nobody finding scum is perfectly alright with you.

It's not any different from policy lynching Org, which we've all agree'd is a bad idea. So why are you trying to push a policy lynch on me? If I'm doing anything abnormal, please say so. If all you've got is what I normally do and you don't like it, well, that's not my problem.

I didn't mean the Lynch Org Because He's Org policy, I meant the Lynch Org If He Refuses To Be Useful policy. You've flatly refused to do anything, and see no issue with yourself or others doing this. For a townie interested in finding scum, this simply doesn't make sense.

[KaminaSquirtle]

What points? There are no points. So far the only point I've seen is "anybody who helps the town can't be scum!", which is so wrong it's not even funny.

Afraid to vote, I see. Why might that be? If I'm so scummy, why not vote me? If Jetsquirrel is so much scummier, why not vote him?

More like 'anybody who helps town has a better chance of being town than scum.'
The question we need to ask is: Why are you so defensive of blue?  Why are you reacting so violently to anyone attacking your precious blue school?

At least I have suspicions, you hypocrite.  You're not voting anyone either.  You're too defensive.  I wasn't sure about either of you before this post, but now I think we can say you're scum, Mr. Person.  Good job making up my mind.

All I'm saying is that either the blue or green sorcerer could be scum. Everything's still on the table, nothing's been confirmed yet.

I could turn this around and ask why you're so defensive of the green sorcerer, but I won't since that'd be a waste of time. What the sorcerers did/do is irrelevant. It's far more important who the actual sorcerers ARE and what they've done during the day. I operate under the assumption that night actions are only relevant if they clear a townie or catch scum. That's just how I operate. If you really, really want to drink wine, I'm not going to stop you, but I've really got to recommend against it.

Good job avoiding answering my question. Why didn't you vote for me or Jetsquirrel before? And why are you voting for me now, anyways? Because I'm not voting? I'm not voting anyone because I've still got no suspicions worth voting for.

Yes, it doesn't matter what the sorcerers do, doesn't it?  Who cares if the scum sorcerer gets a powerful spell?  I'm not defending the green sorcerer, he still could be scum, however, I think it more likely that the blue school is scum.

I didn't vote you or Jet because I didn't feel that strongly about either of you.  Now I feel strongly enough to vote you.

Mind coming here Jokerman-exe?, you dropped your vote with little evidence against me and started lurking.

lolOMGUS.

If that you = mr.person then ignore this piece of text as i dont know who he is mentioning besides me.
You have posted in the first quote your  2 top picks and then all of a sudden you drop it all and go vote for mr.person. With no Evidencial backup from your side, so it looks like you are just going for an easier target. with your scumbuddy IronyOwl, he makes the solid statements and you join him in with weak questions.

Blatantly defending Mr Person much?
I find amusing how your chosen scumteam is the two people who are attacking you and Mr Person.  That is the weakest chainsaw I've ever seen.

Unvote
I simply havent had enough time on the computer for the last couple of days to post and read this thread, so ive been lurking. And as such i don't think i will be able to read the tread and vote on what has been revealed today.

The day ends in a couple hours. Why didn't you ask for an assist, lemon10?

Yes let's vote the lurker with a real excuse, so we don't actually have to scumhunt.  That'll obviously help.
Actually, to use the proper term, lemon would be a flaker, right?
Anyway, I think he's telling the truth, however unacceptable his absence may be.

No no, I never said lurking was scummy. I was merely pointing out a distinct lack of posts. Just a request of action, that's all. Believe me, I know what it's like to accidentally miss a day then get yelled at. I'm just saying I wish to hear more from a few people who haven't posted much. If I thought somebody was scummy for lurking, I'd be voting that player.

I apparently did miss a post by you, Jokerman. My read-through must be significantly worse than I was giving it credit for being. I guess it's time to reread the thread. That's going to suck. The worst part is I'll probably finish it just as the day ends tomorrow. Oh well, it's not time sensitive. Either I'll be dead or I won't, but either way I'll be holding onto IronyOwl for bullshit reasoning for voting me.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you obviously has bullshit reasons.  Duh.

Yes.  Your readthrough has, frankly, been atrocious.  You've been missing all sorts of relevant details.  Especially ones that incriminate you.  Selective reading, perhaps?

@IronyOwl: There's no such thing as OMGUS. What you're looking for is "reasonless vote", and I've stated my reason for voting you. If you want to come forward with something I've done that's actually scummy, that'd be great, but I seriously doubt any such thing exists.

You pretty much just defined an OMGUS.  It's a vote whose only reason is that the person you're voting voted you.
You didn't just seriously say you haven't done anything scummy, right?  Maybe you should read through the thread closer because you've done quite a few.

If you thought about your attack of not liking my scumhunting style, you'd realize that's how I fucking scumhunt. It's a nulltell. All you've got are nulltells but oh no, you want to go on the lynch wagon. Fuck you.

Okay, it's how you scumhunt. How is this different from policy lynching Org, then? You're being absolutely worthless when I know you don't have to be, so I'm going to lynch you. If you're scum, hurray! If you're not scum, hopefully you'll learn to be worth a damn.

It's not any different from policy lynching Org, which we've all agree'd is a bad idea. So why are you trying to push a policy lynch on me? If I'm doing anything abnormal, please say so. If all you've got is what I normally do and you don't like it, well, that's not my problem.

Yes, but we're lynching you on a combination of being useless this particular game, and you acting scummy.  It looks to me like you're trying to 'work with us' in this post.  That, my friend, is a scumtell.

I'm a nice guy, I was giving them all time to post. It really pisses me off when people complain I'm not posting when I either haven't been physically able to post or there's still time left for me to post. It's really fucking annoying when both are true. So I try and avoid being "that guy", but at this point, it's gotten a touch silly how little lemon and Toaster have posted.

In hindsight, prodding the lurkers yesterday would of been a good idea. Oh well, what's past is done. I'd like to hear lemon's thoughts tomorrow and I'd really like to know why he didn't call for an extension. I'm also interested in what exactly Jokerman means by "deflection". I don't get what's scummy about pointing out what the other players are doing.

He probably didn't call for an extension because he's new, and probably didn't even know he could.
HOW can you not see what jokerman means by deflection.  He means you attempted to deflect suspicion from yourself by pointing at the other players and not answering the points against you.

Mod: You seem to have missed my vote on Mr Person.

Mr Person: Still haven't seem any scumhunting from you.  No pressure at all.  If that isn't scummy, then I don't know what is.

[Toaster]

Mind coming here Jokerman-exe?, you dropped your vote with little evidence against me and started lurking.

You go down to nothing and all you can come up with is a lurker vote?

I apparently did miss a post by you, Jokerman. My read-through must be significantly worse than I was giving it credit for being. I guess it's time to reread the thread. That's going to suck. The worst part is I'll probably finish it just as the day ends tomorrow. Oh well, it's not time sensitive. Either I'll be dead or I won't, but either way I'll be holding onto IronyOwl for bullshit reasoning for voting me.

So even if you read through the thread again, it won't matter- you've already decided to vote Irony.  You've already decided it's in your best interest to vote Irony, regardless of what a reread of a thread you've missed a lot of turns up.  Scummy- you're next on my vote list.

[Nirur Torir]

You and Jetsquirrel. 80% certainty.

I have decided that Mr. Person is more likely to be the scum sorcerer, blue. As he is more competent then his scum buddy ...

Unvote Jetsquirrel.
Vote Mr. Person.

If that you = mr.person then ignore this piece of text as i dont know who he is mentioning besides me.
You have posted in the first quote your  2 top picks and then all of a sudden you drop it all and go vote for mr.person. With no Evidencial backup from your side, so it looks like you are just going for an easier target. with your scumbuddy IronyOwl, he makes the solid statements and you join him in with weak questions.

As I was responding to Mr. Person, it was pointed at him.

[JanusTwoface]

>>> End of Day 2 <<<

Mr.Person	(5)	- IronyOwl, KaminaSquirtle, Nirur Torir
Jetsquirrel	(3)	- Jokerman-EXE, Toaster
Nirur Torir	(3)	- Jetsquirrel, lemon10
IronyOwl	(1)	- Mr.Person
lemon10	(0)	-
Jokerman-EXE	(0)	-
KaminaSquirtle	(0)	-
Toaster	(0)	-

As the long day draws to a close, you feel it in your hearts: Mr.Person is the one to die today. Your greatest fears are confirmed as you go to confront him and he brings out his SPOON OF SELF-DEFENSE.  Unfortunately for him, the peddler who sold it to him was a total crackpot.  Who uses a spoon for self defense anyways?

Looking through his pockets, you see the official Warranty for SPOON OF SELF-DEFENSE, Dark Sorcerer Membership Card, and a curious hourglass talisman. It must mean that he was really Mr.Person the Blue, Master of Time Magic.  Quite a blow to the Dark Sorcerers indeed!

[JanusTwoface]

>>> Day 3 <<<

Day Ends: 2 Dec 2010 @ 5 pm EST

Notes
Apprentices: Send me your assists (or lack thereof) before the day ends.

It's starting to get lonely, with only 7 of you left. Especially when you realize that 7 is actually 6. Nirur Torir (Innocent Apprentice) may be standing there, but he's certainly not breathing. No-one can quite just how long he'd been standing there dead, but you do know one thing: There's still a Dark Sorcerer around!

In his pocket, a note:
the battle you win
but the war you will still lose
I will reign surpreme

The lack of Nirur Torir seems somewhat offset by IronyOwl's recent growth spurth. He seems much larger. And greener. And lifelike. Wonder what that means?

Remaining Players
IRONYOWL, AVATAR OF LIFE
Jetsquirrel
Jokerman-EXE
KaminaSquirtle
lemon10
Toaster

Remaining Schools
Green Magic

Yesterday's subport
Blue Magic - 1 Apprentice
Green Magic - 4 Apprentices

[Nirur Torir]

You looted my corpse?!?!

I see no reason to ever forgive any of you for this.

[IronyOwl]

I can't believe you didn't drop any treasure.

[IronyOwl]

Just from day 1:

Three people bandwagon JS in quick succession:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To be frank, I don't really have a clue. I know that i'm supposed to look at what people say, and deduce who has the most scummy behavior, (eg. lurking), but i'm not quite sure how to do it.
I'll try to work it all out by the end though.
Yeah, you guys were right, this is extremely "interesting", i probably should have tried a game of beginners mafia first lol

Deduction is only half the game though. You also need to actively go out and find scum. You do this by asking questions. Hypothetical ones about things people would do, questions about what they have done, and so on. You will be suspected if you just sit around doing nothing and figure out who's suspicious just by the work other people have done.

Unvote for now. As long as you look like you're interested in finding scum people will forgive any newbie mistakes you make. The dark inverse of that statement is that if you don't look like you're interested, people will suspect you and vote for you. So if you're town, make an earnest attempt to play the game.

Meanwhile, Jetsquirrel! Who are you going to parrot this game? Squawk squawk squawk!

Jetsquirrel, what do you think will be the easy way to catch our scum?

Lemon:  You'll do fine.  Just take things in stride.
Other than that, please tell us what characteristics you would want in your scumpartner, so we can learn how you think.

One that posts, but posts rather uninteresting and boring things, so that he isn't suspected. And more importantly one that doesn't say anything stupid enough so that people outright know its him.


Unvote , since i don't really see anything suspect.
Jetsquirrel, come on, get out here, and if you were scum, who do you think would be the biggest threat to you?

JS OMGUS's Person.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jetsquirrel, how do you intend to change your game from previous times?  Have you learned any important lessons in recent games?

ehh... lurk less i think and try to not parrot too much.

Jetsquirrel! Who are you going to parrot this game? Squawk squawk squawk!

You ofcourse  , but for real nobody.

Jetsquirrel, what do you think will be the easy way to catch our scum?

Set up a trap involving a NK or lure them out.

Jetsquirrel, come on, get out here, and if you were scum, who do you think would be the biggest threat to you?

Jim groovester but i purely think that because he may have a grudge against me from the previous game as for now nobody else

Mr.person which of the mages would you LIKE to suport and why?

Person claims JS is rolefishing

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jetsquirrel, what do you think will be the easy way to catch our scum?

Set up a trap involving a NK or lure them out.

No plans of, I dunno, lynching them?

Mr.person which of the mages would you LIKE to suport and why?

I have no idea. Hopefully a townie sorcerer. I have to say, this sounds a lot like rolefishing to me.

Okay, cool. We know a lot about you now, but how is that question going to help you find scum?

because it might affect his assist , instead he just would vote for his/her scum school. But by asking that i actually may disrupt his choice of assisting,
because afterall if you say who you vote and suddenly 2-3 votes pop up on a mage the next day something is clearly fishy right? But thats only is he is scum if he isn't however he will just assist according to his thoughts and evidence because he has nothing to fear.

If I wasn't random voting you right now, I would totally vote you for this blatant rolefishing. Why do you care so much what color I assist?

JS calls out Person for lurking again

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Who do you think had the scummiest reason to vote for you?  Why?

cant see any, they just voted for me because i didn;t post. And that was because i was at school and stuff.

would do this, but I'm quite interested in Jet's answer to my question, so I don't want to unvote him quite yet.

please explain because i really do think i answered your qestion about what my plan was

and eeh mr.person maybe you should scumhunt also right now you answered few questions and ran away are you trying to be passive or are you just waiting for some proper evidence to pop up and get a hold on that?

lemon10 jumps off the JS bandwagon, at this point consisting of only Person and himself, and onto the Jim one

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-SNIP-
Now that he's answered, do you think he is scummy?

I didn't ever really think that he was that scummy, i just kinda voted for him.
Unvote

-SNIP-
lemon10:  See previous question.  Also, have you read Dak's scumhunting guide?

Just read it thanks, and just answered your question as well.

So I'll ask everybody, what do you think of my plan, and would you be willing to go along with it? If you're not, be ready for me to badger you individually about sending in your support, because it's important.
-From a earlier post-
I've got an idea for sending PMs out to people with a color for them to support. I don't think this would help the rest of the town out too much, since only I would know which color was sent to whom, and then it would be up to me to figure out who was fake claiming. But at the very least, it would get people off their asses and actually send in a support.

Don't like the plan at all Jim Groovester, although it would help you find out who the sorcerers are (scum apprentices still get to vote right?), and encourage people to vote, if you were scum, finding out who the sorcerers were would be a really big help for you.

JS yet again calls out Person for lurking

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mr. person come in here are you just trying to draw as little attention as possible? and i may found a hole in Jims plan. Lets say that jim is scum he sends his pms as intented with everyone a color he gives 2 dudes the color of his buds scumschool or his own and direct a pm to his scumbuddy that states him to lie about his color and that he should vote for his. At the end of the day he already has 3 supporters allowing him to use his best spell which are good for most sorcs, now depending on the ability he or his bud gained he will think something that will probaly smash town or have a get out of jail card.

But i may be wrong if i understood the plan and what Jokerman summed up badly, so this may be another piece of useless text i created somewhere in the night.

Person unvotes JS, claims he's "oozing townvibes."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I meant to post yesterday, but then I started playing Crusader Kings. Next thing I know it's 4 in the morning and I'm tired as fuck.

I've never put a WoT in spoilers before. This is was just too long, even for me.

Unvote, vote Jim Groovester. That random vote on Jetsquirrel lasted way longer than it should of. Everything Jetsquirrel has done oozes townvibes. He's trying to scumhunt.

Jim, on the other hand, has not been scumhunting. He's been supporting this stupid plan all game that, for the record, I'm not following. Here's why.

JS doesn' drop it

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I meant to post yesterday, but then I started playing Crusader Kings. Next thing I know it's 4 in the morning and I'm tired as fuck.

I've never put a WoT in spoilers before. This is was just too long, even for me.

Unvote, vote Jim Groovester. That random vote on Jetsquirrel lasted way longer than it should of. Everything Jetsquirrel has done oozes townvibes. He's trying to scumhunt.

Jim, on the other hand, has not been scumhunting. He's been supporting this stupid plan all game that, for the record, I'm not following. Here's why.

Suppose Jim is town and not a sorcerer.  Let's say he tells all three apprentices to assist different schools and everybody else is randomly distributed and supports the plan. Jim can gather no useful information from this. Let's say the scum chooses to assist a different school than the one Jim gave 'em. Jim can't say if it's because that player is scum and just wanted to assist the scum school or because the player just doesn't like the plan. Let's say he tells all three sorcerers to assist the same color. Suddenly Jim knows who all the sorcerers are. This isn't helping him catch scum. All he can find out is who is and isn't a sorcerer, which he has no reason to care about.

But let's say he's scum. Not only does the same assist pattern give more information, the information actually matters to him, too. For instance, let's do the same "all three sorcerers assist different people" scenario as above, but this time with Jim as scum. If he tells two other people to assist red and red gets two assists, he knows that neither of those two players are sorcerers. He knows that the town's sorcerers were in the green and blue assistance collumns, so he should only NK those people. Let's take that "all three sorcerers on one color" scenario. Now he knows who the town's sorcerers are! Oh no, that means he knows who to NK each night!

I think I say this later in the post, but I want to reiterate it. I'm not following Jim's plan. Jim's the one with all the information and he's scum. But even if somebody more trustworthy was in charge, I still wouldn't go along. There's no gains at all. None. But there's a real risk of the scum finding out all the sorcerers with a bit of bad luck. No upside, real risk. Very simple decision.

A. You didnt answer my questions
B. What you say is true but after the second sorcerer NK we can also be pretty sure that Jim is scum as he only then would know who the town sorcs are.
C. Jims plans has a purpose, scum must watch out even more as they then can screw themselves up, but what about you? You lurk, post 1 post, lurk , lurk and pop up finally here to protest this idea without doing much and i probally guess you will start lurking more soon

I would most certainly not put it past Person to bus JS, and his sudden shift from "you're rolefishing" to "everything you've done is town" is suspicious. On the other hand, JS repeatedly called Person out on lurking, even after there was no danger of being lynched and even after Person had unvoted him.

lemon10, on the other hand, has done nothing, at all, except bandwagon. JS was a lot scummier Day 2, but he at least showed up somewhat, whereas lemon10 used the Person defense ("oops all suspects dead") and then the Person strategy (lurklurklurklurk).

I'll look into further options later, but I'd like to hear everyone else's suspicions.

[lemon10]

i assume that you are voting for me with the blue text, correct?
As i have said about 10 times, my votes for other people had nothing to do with others voting or even weather they voted.
The reason i didn't post wasn't because i didn't have any suspicions (although i didn't), but rather i didn't post because i had family over for thanksgiving (they just left yesterday), and i didn't have the time to read the thread.
But yeah, i am aware that i lurked for pretty much all of day two, and no, it wasn't part of any scummy plan, regardless of weather i am town or scum, i wouldn't have posted day two.


As i have said before, my votes have nothing to do with who is attacking people at that point, or even if anyone else is attacking them, but weather i think they are suspicious or not.
And at the point i voted for jim, only 1 other person had voted for him anyways.

[IronyOwl]

Blue means FoS (Finger of Suspicion). It's a convenient way to specify that you suspect someone without voting them, like if you're already voting someone else.

[lemon10]

godamn it, godamn firefox, i had about finished up my post, then i accidentally clicked on a quote link, deleting my post, i'm going to go right back and retype it now