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Author Topic: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.  (Read 21613 times)

LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #135 on: May 14, 2010, 04:25:38 pm »

Spoiler: HRRrrrrrfffffffff (click to show/hide)

AHHAHAAHAHA the dog is looking down like "I am totally into this. This is what I want to be doing right now, THAT RIGHT THERE is why I am a dog"
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Neruz

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #136 on: May 14, 2010, 04:47:20 pm »

Thankyou for actually providing clear and concise reasoning Zombie, i was starting to despair of ever getting anything except declarations of my intelligence or perversion in response.

Ultimately, i do agree with you, although i must hasten to add that there is absolutely no way for us to tell how much these girls understand about what they are doing or not, which makes it difficult to form a sensible judgement beyond the knee-jerk explosiveness that Pathos seems to so enjoy.

Personally i don't see this dance as wrong, but that is probably because i simply cannot bring myself to see any sexualisation in it. I personally do not think this is degrading or dehumanizing or anything rediculous like that, but i can definitely see the point you're coming from, and i can agree that this is perhaps skirting a little too close to the line for comfort.


Thankyou again for being reasonable and sensible in your responses without instantly degenerating into insults Zombie; it appears to be a rare talent on the internets.

Aqizzar

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #137 on: May 14, 2010, 05:06:13 pm »

Thankyou again for being reasonable and sensible in your responses without instantly degenerating into insults Zombie; it appears to be a rare talent on the internets.

Yeah, it is isn't it?  I'm not going to restart trouble by recriminating.  Anyway, thanks everyone for moderating yourselves, mostly.

I can't say I much else to add.  Suffice that I'm just glad I'm not alone in thinking this event was one step beyond, and that we can in fact rationally explain why this is supposed to be unacceptable.
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Toady One

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #138 on: May 14, 2010, 07:26:51 pm »

Pathos has been warned.  Neruz has been warned/muted five times, and that's about enough, so he's been banned permanently (this includes going back to the atheist thread a third time after being told to stay away from it two times).  If you can't behave in a civil fashion, don't post.  If you feel you have been insulted, don't reply with insults, use the moderator button.
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CJ1145

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #139 on: May 14, 2010, 07:31:53 pm »

...

 :(

Maybe I'm naive to question, but besides going back to the atheist thread I'm not seeing what Neruz did wrong. He seemed civil to me.

RIP Neruz. The dolphins loved your fish.
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userpay

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #140 on: May 14, 2010, 07:37:43 pm »

Hmm Neruz is claiming he wasn't told that he was suppose to stay away from the Atheist thread, and looking back through this thread I don't see much if anything that would consitute another warning or mute.
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Zombie

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #141 on: May 14, 2010, 07:40:26 pm »

Ultimately, i do agree with you, although i must hasten to add that there is absolutely no way for us to tell how much these girls understand about what they are doing or not, which makes it difficult to form a sensible judgement beyond the knee-jerk explosiveness that Pathos seems to so enjoy.

Personally i don't see this dance as wrong, but that is probably because i simply cannot bring myself to see any sexualisation in it. I personally do not think this is degrading or dehumanizing or anything rediculous like that, but i can definitely see the point you're coming from, and i can agree that this is perhaps skirting a little too close to the line for comfort.

Well, of course. When I say the girls don't understand, I hope I am understood to be saying, "most likely" or "statistically". While we don't know what they really do understand, we can gather that kids are supposed to develop in a certain way and that even their understanding of what they are doing, what the song means, and how others will perceive this can be construed as a problem.

I don't think the dance itself is wrong. I tend to hesitate when discussing these sorts of things, however, as it can be rather confusing when I explain myself. I'm glad you all seem to be following quite well, though. I think the dance, as the girls are, is quite an innocent display of their desire to be taken seriously while having fun and doing what they like. They probably are more interested in the music than the lyrics. When it becomes degrading or dehumanizing is when people start to call them sluts or say, "That's a whore's uniform!" or say that this is "what's wrong" with America. What they see as having fun is perceived as a very negative thing to others and they are seen as little other than dolls or puppets.

It's not so much the dancing that is degrading and dehumanizing; it's the context it appears to be happening in. It's either an exhibition or a contest and there is little chance these girls picked those outfits and got the choreography that good by themselves. They may have picked the song, but I doubt that as well. They are likely members of a common dance class that were picked because they are very good at dancing, which they are. They were then given a song which was picked by an adult, outfits picked by an adult, and taught dance moves picked by an adult. Stop me if I'm repeating myself. ;)

The issue for me isn't the girls dancing. It really isn't. I have a long outstanding issue with child pageantry organized by adults (as opposed to by children) and these weird mother/daughter beauty pageants and dance competitions. The issue is that these girls were most likely influenced by adults to do a performance they most likely knew would turn out to look sexual. The issue is the pelvic thrusts and chest wiggles that some adult taught them. Really, it's the fact that adults motivated these children to do these things, knowing how it would look.

Honestly, it's little girls dancing. That isn't inherently sexual. Like I said prior, though, it's the amalgamation of all of these factors that the girls may have had no control over. Their goal is to have fun dancing. An adult, however, might want to show them off as sexy for some strange reason.
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CJ1145

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #142 on: May 14, 2010, 07:42:11 pm »

He can't hear you Zombie. He's dead banned.
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Zombie

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #143 on: May 14, 2010, 07:46:03 pm »

He can't hear you Zombie. He's dead banned.

Does that mean he can't even see the thread? I assumed that "banned" meant your IP couldn't register, post, or anything being a member gets you. Of course, I may just be crazy. Either way, he brought up good rebuttals that my post hopes to alleviate. :) It contributes!

In response to the "thanks for being civil" stuff... I don't see the point of not being civil. :x All it does it get you muted/banned or in some sort of crazy flamewar. Flamewars are never fun, unless they're with real flamethrowers. :)
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userpay

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #144 on: May 14, 2010, 07:58:50 pm »

Well I think theres been some misunderstandings thats lead up to it, like I said I didn't see anything in this thread in particular thats really deserving of a ban. I'm hoping that the ban will be taken back personally.

edit: On topic though I guess I'm ambivilant, I can see good points on both sides and I think my opinion is influenced by reports I've done on violence in regards to children. Yes exposure parhaps isn't a good idea but at the same time its the parents responsibility to make sure that the child has been taught the proper morals as well.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 08:01:29 pm by userpay »
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IronyOwl

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #145 on: May 14, 2010, 08:01:38 pm »

Yeah, Neruz was a good member. He seemed a little harsh in some circumstances, but never when it didn't seem normal. I mean, if you look at his quotes in isolation he might look like kind of a dick, but in context I never saw anything that said he wasn't the sort of person you wanted around.

Plus, he had a lot of useful things to add.
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ToonyMan

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #146 on: May 14, 2010, 08:04:24 pm »

Neruz was good when he wasn't being a jerk to me.
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Bandages

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #147 on: May 14, 2010, 08:07:31 pm »

We should try and stay on topic, even in the light of the recent warnings/bannings.

I'm still interested in knowing why people feel:
  • we are sexualizing children by having them dance
  • sexualizing children is wrong
  • that a person who understand sex is a worse person than one who doesn't
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Rashilul

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #148 on: May 14, 2010, 08:11:02 pm »

Alas, poor Neruz, I knew him somewhat.
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sonerohi

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Re: No joke, this is the worst thing I have ever seen.
« Reply #149 on: May 14, 2010, 09:00:39 pm »

We should try and stay on topic, even in the light of the recent warnings/bannings.

I'm still interested in knowing why people feel:
  • we are sexualizing children by having them dance
  • sexualizing children is wrong
  • that a person who understand sex is a worse person than one who doesn't

1. The dancing would be cool, if it were dancing. This is pole-dancing minus the pole. The moves are overly suggestive for the age level, and I find it hard to believe the girls themselves picked out those particular moves.
2. If you do not understand, you fail at not being a pedophile.
3. No one said that.
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