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[Little]

Inb4 lock. I don't think this thread can go anywhere but down.

[Vector]

Then all i can honestly say is that you have issues.

[...]

To suggest that they're somehow being dehumanized is just absurd.

I don't disagree with the claim of issues, and I wouldn't say they're being intentionally dehumanized.  In some ways, though, I think one of the many possible reactions is one of dehumanization.  At the very least, confusion.

[ChairmanPoo]

*shrug* I do think that the issue is being blown out of proportion.

[Neruz]

Then all i can honestly say is that you have issues.

[...]

To suggest that they're somehow being dehumanized is just absurd.

I don't disagree with the claim of issues, and I wouldn't say they're being intentionally dehumanized.  In some ways, though, I think one of the many possible reactions is one of dehumanization.  At the very least, confusion.

I'd argue that there is almost nothing more human than sexualisation.

[Luke_Prowler]

They're dancing, they're dressed up, they're ovbiously enjoying every second of it. Who am i to start hurling sexual undertones and screaming about impurity?

Doing cocaine is also enjoyable, but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

[Neruz]

They're dancing, they're dressed up, they're ovbiously enjoying every second of it. Who am i to start hurling sexual undertones and screaming about impurity?

Doing cocaine is also enjoyable, but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

Cocaine has measurable negative side-effects that can be shown to outweigh the positive gains. Can you say the same for this dancing contest?

--EDIT--

I should probably add that i personally feel that if somone wishes to take cocaine, it is my position to ensure they are aware of the risks, but it is not my position to stop them if i am satisfied they are aware of the risks and choose to go ahead with it anyway.

[Luke_Prowler]

I figured that it would be the same mental/emotional/physical damages as normal pageants, applied to a 7 year old, with an extra side of creepy.

[ChairmanPoo]

I should probably add that i personally feel that if somone wishes to take cocaine, it is my position to ensure they are aware of the risks, but it is not my position to stop them if i am satisfied they are aware of the risks and choose to go ahead with it anyway.

Given that it's not too unusual for cocaine users to go psychotic, I'd rather have them stay elsewhere while they are taking it

[Aqizzar]

Oookay.  I just got back and read through the whole thread.  I'm not going to try responding to settled issues or arguments, except for these two things.  I think Zombie was on the right track, and I would add that in addition to not being pressured into strenuous competitions at that age (I have no idea if these girls were strung along into competition or that dance, or if they all jumped at the idea, it's a general platitude), they should not be led along into unrealistic images of the world.

The other thing is, Neruz, whatever your disagreements with other people's interpretations, do not start accusing people of having repressed issues themselves for seeing something uncouth in that video that you don't.  Disagree, argue, whatever, but if you keep calling people crazy for not seeing things your way, I will lock the thread.  Chill.

[Wimdit]

Mmm. Whether this sort of thing actually does give the children an unrealistic view of the world is debatable. I mean, it's not like it's their sole source of information. Personally, I would love to see some psychological evaluations done ten or twenty years from now. See if it actually does affect them.

[bjlong]

It's fairly well established that violent media has a detrimental effect on children. Only one study concluded anything positive--and that was that with significant parental involvement, the effects of violence are mitigated. This would probably extend to sexualization.

(Off with science goggles)

Sadly, I watched this. AND NOW I CAN'T GET IT OUT OF MY BRAIN. ARRGH.

The problem I see here is that everyone seems to be thinking of children as mini-adults. They're not. They primarily want to 1) Run off and do something outside of their parents, and 2) Get their parents to accept it and praise them. What their parents praise or condemn them for becomes what they feel like they're expected to do or not do to gain acceptance from society. If they do something in line with their interests, and people praise them for it, then they will be profoundly happy. Their interests will be funneled down this channel, so they'll generally end up with what their parents encouraged as a very influential starting point. (Assuming a relatively healthy childhood.) This is pretty much how raising kids works.

You can see that the parents either don't care about this, or, more likely, are actively encouraging this. So the kids are learning that they should do what, now? I mean, there will always be a market for strippers, for lapdances and such, and I'm sure that they can land a decent position as a trophy wife with a little grooming, but... this is a highly sexualized dance that they're being praised for.

Now, nothing's wrong with sex, let me point out. But if your entire life, if your entire interests and such revolve around sexualized displays, then something's wrong. And, trust me, for that dance routine to come together, they've had to work with those kids for a long time. Intensively. These kids were eating, breathing, and sleeping their dance routine. And then they got a lot of praise for it. So, what have they learned? Maybe determination. Maybe how to dance a bit. But probably? They'll look back on this as they get older and think this is how to win over the world. Probably not just because of this, but because of several incidents--this sort of thing is indicative of poor parenting.

The "they're happy" defense just doesn't do it for me. They'd be just as happy dancing something less sexualized, and be far better off in the long run. It's like someone came up with a self-defense system for little kids, where they went through basically boot camp, and were trained how to hit someone until they bled, how to use a knife, were exposed to a little bleeding, and were taught some fighting techniques. (It would have an ultra-hardcore name, like Kidnap-Prüf.) Would the boys have fun learning this stuff? Sure. Would they be messed up by it? A little. Would they be better off in a different martial art? Hell. Yes.

[Pathos]

Pathos: I never said the Latino girl was sexualised, just like I've asserted that the dancing girls aren't sexualised, I've not made a direct statement on her once so far. My actual opinion on the matter is that the two are almost exactly the same in spirit and intention. Just kids being dressed up and doing stuff, with other people getting angry about it because they can't stop thinking about it from a sexual mindset and are just launching off into the same unthinking "soccer mom: moral crusader" mindset we've all seen and ridiculed 10,000 times. My beef with you in particular comes from your irrational hatred of one and blithe acceptance of the other, on the grounds that you think one's somehow dirty and the other's somehow not.

You've decided that a single image of a girl at a carnival is fine. That's cool and all, but you've attributed an awful lot to a lone picture, stuff that you've had to have just stick on there from your own preconceptions. That's generalising, but we can live with that. You say it's okay for her to dress like that because she's directly imitating others.
Then we have a video of a group of girls dancing. You've decided arbitrarily that it's promoting fertility and sexualisation, with your wording actually suggesting (Through omission, so I can forgive it, it's just poor structure) that dancing competitions exist to promote sexualisation of kids. You state it's not okay for these girls because the concept they're imitating isn't exactly like the source material. You conclude that it's all about sexualisation and then you start throwing up whatever you feel like to justify it, presumably in the hopes some of it would stick. You never responded to my question on where you got the idea they were doing it to try and attract adult males, you seem to have dropped the natural/artificial thing, you havn't said anything about where you're getting the context for the carnivals (it sure as shit can't be the solitary picture), the whole 'red underwear' thing just evaporated when you were called out on it... if anything, I'd say you were the one trolling, except I know deep down that you're really trying hard to justify your position, but really can't.

It's about context. Compare this picture with the girl in carnival dress:-

Spoiler: Semi-NSFW (click to show/hide)

Now compare the original video with Beyoncé's Single Ladies dress:-

Spoiler: Beyoncé (click to show/hide)

You're an utter idiot if you don't think that the outfits the girls were wearing in the first video were sexualised, and the way they were dancing wasn't either. Here's the thing, I don't dislike entirely on the basis of what they were wearing, I dislike it on the fact they were wearing that and then THRUSTING THEIR HIPS TOWARDS THE AUDIENCE.

If you can't understand that this is a sexualisation of small children, then there's something seriously wrong with you.

I believe I mentioned that I couldn't get everything out of that picture, but that was the way it seemed from the picture and the way I would assume it from the picture. She's not posing, she's not acting "sexy", she's just being a little kid in a silly outfit that all the adults wear.

And you're being an utter moron if you can just say "Well, they're dancing, so it's fine". Have you even watched it? REALLY? I don't know about you, but I'm fairly certain when I was a kid girls dancing was just them doing some pops and locks and crap like that, not THRUSTING THEIR HIPS TOWARDS THE CAMERA and SHAKING THE ARSES AND BOOBS THEY DON'T HAVE as well as SHOWING OFF THEIR UNDERWEAR. I'd find that attractive in an adult. Maybe you wouldn't, I don't really care. It seems, however, that most people here agree with my viewpoint, and therefore you're the odd one out. Try examining your own viewpoint.

When did the red underwear thing "just melt"? I was proved right on it. Go ask a bunch of women what colour of underwear is the "sexy colour", I'm sure they'll say red.

And I know you have no real basis for your argument, and are just pretending to be an autistic dick.

(Autistic because, well, if he really doesn't get this he really doesn't get subtle social indications of what the hell's going on.)

[bjlong]

Uhh, Pathos, maybe you should edit that to be a little less hostile. And take a walk. Yes, this is pretty disgusting, but no need for flaming.

[Pathos]

Uhh, Pathos, maybe you should edit that to be a little less hostile. And take a walk. Yes, this is pretty disgusting, but no need for flaming.

Eh, he's baiting, but he needs a good put down.

He's also heavily anti-social (and therefore cannot comment on the issue, since you need to understand not-so-subtle hints in the video) or just trolling this entire thread. I'm leaning towards trolling, personally.

[Neruz]

Out of curiousity; because it just sort of occured to me. Why exactly is these kids dancing in a sexualised way bad? I mean, ovbiously actually having sex with them is unacceptable, but pretending to be all sexy and grown up is bad for precisely what reason?

Just curious; i'm trying to work out what angle you're coming from here, although i suspect i already know.