Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Aqizzar]

Read this before going further: I am starting a thread about a topic that probably shouldn't be discussed on this forum, according to its rules, and I'm linking to a video that could be interpreted to violate them, as well as any number of local laws where you live.  But the video and the activity therein is ostensibly perfectly legal where it was taken and equally legal for YouTube to host and distribute, and that is why I am making this thread.  To discuss and criticize something very bad.  If Tarn and Zach disapprove, I fully understand, but nobody do anything that would make them mad yourselves.  Fairly warned be ye.

I have a philosophy.  An extraordinary amount of strife and conflict in human history has been caused by the universal quest to destroy that which is despised.  Physically or metaphorically, when we encounter something we do not understand or disapprove of, we seek to remove it; not just from our presence from but the world entirely, because simply knowing that something we despise continues to exist is an insult to our sensibilities.  It requires a fantastic amount of poise to avoid this tendency, even then just to resolve oneself to not seeking its destruction, and everyone has their limits.

Therefore, I believe all boundaries must be broken, the unspeakable must be spoken, the unthinkable must be thought.  No one need agree with anyone, no one need believe the same truths or hold the same values.  But unreasoning fear and distaste is unacceptable.  So I encourage exposure to everything beyond the pale.  We can still despise that which we find, by any measure we choose, so long as we know exactly how and why we reached that position.  We can live and speak freely, when we are all equal, by staring equally into the abyss.

This philosophy frequently comes back to bite me in ass.  This is one of those times, because I certainly have my limits.  (Note: The link is now a Google search, because YouTube took down the original video due to the song "Single Ladies" being copyrighted.  The same will happen to any other hosting, so you'll have to find the video yourself if you wish to see it.)

Yes, this is making the rounds on live TV news.  Yes, they are very skilled showgirls-in-training.  Yes, that is an auditorium full of people cheering them on.  Yes, they had the full support of their families.  Yes, they are seven years old.

Little Miss Sunshine started, or maybe acknowledged, a very disturbing trend which has continued to grow.  When the movie made a very-prepubescent girl into a poledancer, it was supposed to be funny because it was so outrageous.  I don't dispute this, it was funny; and by my accursed philosophy, I'm supposed to say it's a good thing that boundary was crossed to see what lay beyond.  The corollary is, having seen what lay beyond, we as a culture are supposed to go "oh yes, now we rationally understand why we find this outrageous", and then we step back.  I'm starting to think those radical clerics and reactionaries are onto something.  The death of Western Civilization by God-given earthquake doesn't seem that unreasonable really.

[Leafsnail]

...Jesus Christ.

I mean just... ugh.  Can't bring together any rational thoughts right now.

[smigenboger]

(I'll cease, desist and delete on command)
Is this an American-only phenomenon? I understand we are over-sexualized, yet since as a society we have a fairly strict code to display this sexuality, the people who do not wish to follow that code will have to let it out in taboo ways.

I'd say this video is a result of being sexually open, yet still repressed as a country. The participants themselves are very talented for their age, even though it's misguided.

Europe seemed to allow more sexual freedom, in a way that since it's not a taboo, creepy shit like this doesn't happen as much.

[quinnr]

-watches thread-

Wow. That's crazy. and I bet this conversation shall be interesting.

[Nonsapient]

They were very very talented.  It's not like they were pole-dancing---- quite.


Tasteless as hell.  Just change the costumes and it's a very different picture.

edit:  my friend's tongue-in-cheek response:

"when kids see adults girating like a bunch of morons in public they are going to want to do the same thing, so we arrest Beyonce for being a bad role model"

[Diablous]

Woah. The main thing is the costumes really.

[smigenboger]

Learn to swim...

[bjlong]

So... where was this made? (Note, I've not watched the video. Nor do I especially want to.)

[ToonyMan]

Not interested in this stuff at all, bleh man bleh.  I disagree with what they're doing, but whatever.

[Jakkarra]

Oh god.

Why? It's the parents i blame.

[Vector]

Hm.  At the very least, I'm grateful that it was toned down from the original video (less gyration and more ballet).  I think it's less disturbing without context, since initially I didn't see so much trouble with it.  Even the costumes aren't that bad, given that I've seen 7-year-olds wearing spaghetti-string bikinis before.  What is it--stockings, a cut-down top, and bike shorts with a few ruffles?  I get the strong feeling that once again, I'm missing the cultural context that should make this seem worse.

That said, it does leave a distinctly "disturbed" feeling.  Sort of like the child beauty pageants.  On the other hand, though... this is in many ways just the way 7-year-old girls are.  As withdrawn and crazy as I was, even I smooched someone in kindergarten (and I wasn't allowed to watch anything but Sesame Street, or read anything really age-inappropriate).  Of course, it's different when that aspect of our culture is brought onto stage and broadcast to a live audience, rather than left to sleepover parties.

I think it may mostly be a result of what children are exposed to at a young age.  Kids will learn and perform the dance routines they see on TV, and put on "concerts."  The real question is if they're watching Beyonce, Singin' in the Rain, or Weird Al Yankovic.

[Myroc]

What.

Just...

What.

[MrWiggles]

Once again the of decency and free speech come to clash.

And once more I have to side with free speech. I dont like it, but I dont want to enforce it to stop.
After some light reading, yes Child Pageants are wholly american. It started as a way to boost tourist income for hotels. So Child Pageants are like Valentine Day for Greet Carding card industry, to the convention circuit.

[Jakkarra]

I dislike child beauty pageants as much as anything else.

They are SEVEN for fuck's sake, Which does, fortunately prevent them from actually understanding any of the shit that's happening.

[Aqizzar]

I think it may mostly be a result of what children are exposed to at a young age.  Kids will learn and perform the dance routines they see on TV, and put on "concerts."  The real question is if they're watching Beyonce, Singin' in the Rain, or Weird Al Yankovic.

Don't get me wrong, I know the act itself is how kids operate.  These girls doubtless watched TV, thought it was cool, and tried dancing.  There's a world of difference between a seven year old girl throwing on what she thinks are hot clothes and dancing in front of her TV, and a seven year old girl going through the dedicated practice needed to pull that performance off and wearing clothing made for the purpose, all in front of a screaming audience.  It's not the dancing or even the appearance that bothers me, it's the public pageantry and enthusiastic acceptance thereof that turns my stomach.

I'd say this video is a result of being sexually open, yet still repressed as a country.

I'm inclined to agree.  This the result of different layers of society conflicting with each other.  In the fluid timeline of cultural evolution, a significant enough segment of society managed to write the rules of that society, not just the actual laws, but also the unspoken laws of what is "acceptable" and what is not.  Meanwhile, another portion of society, probably not even consciously, draws to embrace by larger or smaller measures that which the rules say they shouldn't.  It's an amazing facet of human nature that making something forbidden lends it an extra allure beyond its actual qualities.

"I'm not supposed to have this, I bet it's good for me."  "Other people don't want me to have this, I bet they want to keep it for themselves."  "No one's supposed to have this, but I do, and that makes me better than everyone."  It's amazing that kind of architecture survived the rigors of primate-hood; you think it'd be bred out of us.  (And of course, I'm equally guilty.)