Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cheddarius]

Someone said there was a godfather earlier, and I took it at face value.

[Cheddarius]

Okay, I found it.

Keep in mind that innocent reports are do not necessarily create clears because of the presence of the godfather role.

I guess I misinterpreted this as there being a godfather role, not there possibly being a godfather role.

[spitfire684]

Problem with someone coming out as cop is that
1) Someone could claim him even if he wassnt (Like the mafia would) and then say they found people scum
2) If the real cop claims the mafia will kill him

[Cheddarius]

Yeah, 1 is a real problem. I went over that previously, and how it'd be a total disaster if the cop had actually died and mafia claimed.
Two is bad also, and like I showed, it's probably better to wait to claim, since you can get more and possibly better reports.

Er, what do you guys think about the values of scum reports/town reports?

[ToonyMan]

Scum results are 100% accurate and should be posted NOW.
Town results are useless with the possibility of godfather.

[Nirur Torir]

I don't have time to do a proper re-read of the thread right now, since my computer has become highly unstable and could crash at any time, so it's time for random questions.

Alsark, not only are you not trying to scumhunt, you claimed to be experienced earlier and I have seen you do little, but I believe trying to get the cop to out himself/herself to be a scummy thing to do. If there is a cop, he'd become an easy target for tonight and probably give no useful information. Had he/she found a scum, he/she would probably have already said something by now. If there is no cop, then a scum could claim it and claim their ally as being town - A massive increase in confusion levels. So, I ask you to give your views on who you think is scummy, and why.

[Cheddarius]

Scum results are 100% accurate and should be posted NOW.
Town results are useless with the possibility of godfather.

Yeah, scum results are super fly. If you have at least 1 scum report, unless there's some weird circumstance like you're almost certain you can get another scum report tomorrow, it's a good idea to claim...
But I wouldn't say town results are useless. If you have several town results, it might not be certain but it's definitely useful.

Like I said, I think cop-claim could be useful, but not now when we have so much to gain by waiting one more day and so little to lose (because we still have 5 town, so the cop has a low chance to get killed).
The only problem is confirming the cop... that's a real snag.

[Cheddarius]

Wait, how about this? Everyone claims two people who are innocent. You have a pretty good chance of getting it right (7/12 if I've done this correctly; 7/9 * 6/8), so scum can't figure out who's cop. Whoever is the cop gives his or her results from the past two nights (if he or she has gotten a scum result, like ToonyMan said, he or she should claim). Then, in the event that the cop is killed by the mafia, we'll be able to have two people who are probably clean, which will be great in lylo (if they're still alive by then, as is probable). However, this comes with a pretty hefty price. We have 5 townies. 5*(7/12)=about 3 people, on average, will get it right. 2 people will miss, and Mafia will know that they are not cops (we have an opportunity to WIFOM the Mafia here! Cop could claim someone was clean who he or she had not actually investigated, and maybe win a free night to investigate without getting killed! o/) This narrows the slim 1/5th chance of copdeath to a much scarier 1/3 chance...

Do you guys think it's worth it?
What about, er, you, Magmadeath? You've been under suspicion (well, technically only by Alsark, but still)  lately...

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Scum results are 100% accurate and should be posted NOW.
Town results are useless with the possibility of godfather.

Yeah, scum results are super fly. If you have at least 1 scum report, unless there's some weird circumstance like you're almost certain you can get another scum report tomorrow, it's a good idea to claim...
But I wouldn't say town results are useless. If you have several town results, it might not be certain but it's definitely useful.

Like I said, I think cop-claim could be useful, but not now when we have so much to gain by waiting one more day and so little to lose (because we still have 5 town, so the cop has a low chance to get killed).
The only problem is confirming the cop... that's a real snag.

Until we see a godfather roleflip(which may be never, if there isn't one), town results ARE 100% useless.

Cop should only claim with a scum result.

Wait, how about this? Everyone claims two people who are innocent. You have a pretty good chance of getting it right (7/12 if I've done this correctly; 7/9 * 6/8), so scum can't figure out who's cop. Whoever is the cop gives his or her results from the past two nights (if he or she has gotten a scum result, like ToonyMan said, he or she should claim). Then, in the event that the cop is killed by the mafia, we'll be able to have two people who are probably clean, which will be great in lylo (if they're still alive by then, as is probable). However, this comes with a pretty hefty price. We have 5 townies. 5*(7/12)=about 3 people, on average, will get it right. 2 people will miss, and Mafia will know that they are not cops (we have an opportunity to WIFOM the Mafia here! Cop could claim someone was clean who he or she had not actually investigated, and maybe win a free night to investigate without getting killed! o/) This narrows the slim 1/5th chance of copdeath to a much scarier 1/3 chance...

I fail to see how that would be of any benefit to us.

[Alsark]

I don't have time to do a proper re-read of the thread right now, since my computer has become highly unstable and could crash at any time, so it's time for random questions.

Alsark, not only are you not trying to scumhunt, you claimed to be experienced earlier and I have seen you do little, but I believe trying to get the cop to out himself/herself to be a scummy thing to do. If there is a cop, he'd become an easy target for tonight and probably give no useful information. Had he/she found a scum, he/she would probably have already said something by now. If there is no cop, then a scum could claim it and claim their ally as being town - A massive increase in confusion levels. So, I ask you to give your views on who you think is scummy, and why.

It is good that we have some discussion going now.

Unfortunately all of the rounds I have played in the past have allowed the usage of IMs, or at the very least, PMs. Most of my scumhunting tends to be through reaction testing via instant messenger programs. An immediate reaction is important. When people have time to think about how they reply, they can mask their reaction with something more appropriate to town-level. This hinders scumhunting, but not to the point where you cannot totally get a vibe from people through their posts.

Anyway, my strategy for the cop revealing himself was for LYLO. If it were LYLO (three mafia), the cop would want to out his reports because we would HAVE to lynch correctly. Now that we know this is no longer the case, there is not as much pressure present. However, my point still stands that the chances of the cop dying have become significantly higher. Note, too, that there might also be a mafia roleblocker. That means the mafia essentially has a 2/5 chance of "disabling" the cop (if there is a roleblocker). Those are pretty substantial chances - especially if we mislynch today (there is then a 50% chance of disabling the cop with a roleblocker present).

Alright, so we have a mislynch and this time we ARE going to use it. We're not going to let ourselves have a tie again.

Anyway, I've been FoSing Cheddarius all game but I'm getting different vibes now. I'd like to just jot down a few notes...

Nirur Tiror - Has seemed pretty aggressive all game. He was both the first person to ask questions (albeit, in my opinion, rather silly ones) and the first person to vote. He's either very pro-town or quite an experienced mafia player. Either way, he has brought up some good points throughout the game.

Evilmonk - Caused the tie. This actually saved our mislynch for us, so it was actually a good thing. He ended up saving a townie... so this either means he is town or is a mafia WIFOMing us.

Cheddarius - The reason I have had my vote on you all game is because you were switching your vote around so much - generally to whoever seemed like the easiest target. However, I think your scummy vibes have waned, which is why I am going to turn my attention towards others. Alternatively, you ARE scum, and it was so difficult to lynch you because your scumbuddies wouldn't allow it by voting for Siquo. That all seems too convenient though, considering Siquo's death, so I won't look too much into that. Another thing to note - Cheddarius could have voted for and killed Siquo day 1, but he didn't, which in that regard, puts him in the same boat as Monk. Is he a townie, or WIFOMing us?

RandomNumberGenerator - I haven't seen much from you besides your discussion with Siquo. Siquo seemed to think you were scum, though, and Cheddarius agreed (albeit I kind of think the reason why Siquo thought you were scum was odd, anyway). He absolutely loves to talk about WIFOM, though, and if he were mafia I would expect a lot of WIFOM (ex: Siquo dying).

Magmadeath - I haven't seen you contribute a whole lot... you did post an incorrect vote tally, though. You were also switching between siquo and Cheddarius, but then again, I don't really blame you, as they were both pretty scummy.

Spitfire - As far as I've noticed, has probably contributed the least out of anybody else here. I don't have a whole lot to go off of here, but lurkyness and lack of contribution masks scumminess, which is never a good thing for the town.

I actually wouldn't be too surprised if Nirur Tiror and Spitfire are scumbuddies. Nirur Tiror immediately singled out Spitfire for a rather strange question, "Who would you want for a scum partner and why?" It's an irrelevant question - the answer will not provide information, particularly if people here don't know one another (I don't know any of you so I don't know if you know one another). Then he backed off very quickly, despite saying he was going to "question them until they drop significant scumtells." Not very good questioning if you back off so easily.

Seeing as how this is beginner mafia, I think the general tendency of the mafia here would be to try and stay out of the shadows a little bit (Nirur Tiror might be an exception - he seems experienced).

Here are some sentences or bits I thought were noteworthy:

You dug a nice deep pit for yourself with that WIFOM while I was sleeping, scum. Now, why are you hiding what your pokemon type is, unless you feel that it is a scum-type, and will give you away?

Sounds over the top aggressive. Calling somebody scum the way he called them scum comes off as... a bit scummy to me, ironically. You can't call anybody scum as a 100% fact, and it just struck me as coming off that way with the tone - and obviously the only people who KNOW who and who is not scum are the mafia. Yes, I know, Cheddarius was scummy, but that doesn't mean you can say, "You ARE scum."

Now we have one mislynch, instead of two.

Interesting... I will address this sentence in my questions below.

Siquo-Cheddarius, theevilmonk, Randomnumbergenerator
Cheddarius-spitfire684, Magmadeath, Nirur Torir, Alsark
Randomnumbergenerator-Siquo

Wrong. Nirur Tiror voted for Siquo, not Cheddarius. People following your tally would have believed Cheddarius was going to be lynched - instead we had another no lynch. To be honest I was a bit too taken aback by the person who called a dead player scum, FoSed the town IC, and thought we should no lynch every phase calling me stupid to really tally the votes myself at the time. Albeit I would have kept my vote on Cheddarius anyway.

Now that I have my thoughts down, it's time for the questions:

- This is for every single living player here: How much have each of you played mafia? I would like to get a general level of experience from everybody here. Unfortunately, with a mafia IC lack of skill will not be entirely evident since even unskilled mafia can gain advice, but I still believe that this is a point worth knowing.

- Another question for every player here: Provide your primary and secondary suspects and explain why.

- Monk: What was your role and affiliation last game?

- Nirur Tiror: Why all of the silly questions early on in the game? It almost seems like an attempt to scumhunt without actually scumhunting because the answers don't actually provide us with any real kind of information.

- Nirur Tiror: Second question. How did you know there were only two mafia before this fact was ever announced? Refer to my quoted sentence above to see what I'm referring to. Most rounds with nine players I have played with have had three mafia. The "norm" for mafia to town ratio is either 1:3 or 1:4 (or somewhere in between), but why did you assume that there had to be two mafia?



Now, I'm not going to place my vote yet. I want to hear from everybody before I do so.

[Nirur Torir]

Unvote. My question has been answered.

- This is for every single living player here: How much have each of you played mafia? I would like to get a general level of experience from everybody here. Unfortunately, with a mafia IC lack of skill will not be entirely evident since even unskilled mafia can gain advice, but I still believe that this is a point worth knowing.

- Another question for every player here: Provide your primary and secondary suspects and explain why.

- Nirur Tiror: Why all of the silly questions early on in the game? It almost seems like an attempt to scumhunt without actually scumhunting because the answers don't actually provide us with any real kind of information.

- Nirur Tiror: Second question. How did you know there were only two mafia before this fact was ever announced? Refer to my quoted sentence above to see what I'm referring to. Most rounds with nine players I have played with have had three mafia. The "norm" for mafia to town ratio is either 1:3 or 1:4 (or somewhere in between), but why did you assume that there had to be two mafia?

Experience: Two prior games of Beginner's Mafia and one normal game of Mafia from over a year ago, I think. I had no idea what was going on throughout, and the game died off before finishing.

Suspicions:
1) Monk. You've been lurking and not drawing attention to yourself. I do not understand your last post; it seems like you're laying down an excuse for lurking. Stop lurking. Start questioning people. Follow-up on scum-tells and question the people about them. Experience is the best way to learn.
2) Probably Spitfire. It's just too easy for a new player who is also scum to hide in the shadows while the town lynches itself.

Silly questions: They were advised in earlier BMs by the ICs. Stuff to get people talking, mostly. It was also to try to make the scum nervous and start making mistakes. Scum dislike being called scum, and inexperienced scum tends to panic and start showing inconsistencies. It worked for me once before.

Mafia count assumption: BM 5 and 6 each only had two scum. I only skimmed the rules for this one, assuming them to be exactly the same.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

- This is for every single living player here: How much have each of you played mafia? I would like to get a general level of experience from everybody here. Unfortunately, with a mafia IC lack of skill will not be entirely evident since even unskilled mafia can gain advice, but I still believe that this is a point worth knowing.

I've played 3 games so far, this will be my fourth. The first was Beginner's Mafia 5, second was Wizard Duel, third was Christmas Mafia, which I was recently killed in. All of them have been on this forum.

- Another question for every player here: Provide your primary and secondary suspects and explain why.

Primary: MagmaDeath as he has flipped votes several times while contributing relatively little to scumhunting. There was also that false chart he posted, though that could have been an honest mistake... however, as he has yet to answer any of the questions posed to him, so I'm still very suspicious.

Secondary: You, Alsark. For the first part of this game, you have been very quiet and inobtrusive... now you come out of no-where and start delivering a barrage of questions to everyone. You could have been waiting to gauge people's reactions before coming out into the open, so you would have a good foothold on the game.
[/quote]

[spitfire684]

- This is for every single living player here: How much have each of you played mafia? I would like to get a general level of experience from everybody here. Unfortunately, with a mafia IC lack of skill will not be entirely evident since even unskilled mafia can gain advice, but I still believe that this is a point worth knowing.

This is my first forum mafia game, but I have played mafia on chats before.

- Another question for every player here: Provide your primary and secondary suspects and explain why.

1st Would probally be Cheddarious, I have suspected him from quite early on  because of his jokes and vote switching and trying to throw us off subject.
2nd Would be Nirur Torir although this is not as strong choice for me, he was questioning alot (but I guess you need to so you can find scum) and his questions did sometimes not get us anywhere.

[Alsark]

Secondary: You, Alsark. For the first part of this game, you have been very quiet and inobtrusive... now you come out of no-where and start delivering a barrage of questions to everyone. You could have been waiting to gauge people's reactions before coming out into the open, so you would have a good foothold on the game.

I apologize for that. As I believe I mentioned, I wasn't even here - hence the prod request. I had some things going on in-person at the time, so mafia was far from my mind. There's a difference between lurking and just not being present at all. Mine was a case of the latter.

[spitfire684]

If it has appeared i was lurking im sorry. Now that christmas and new year time is passing I can go on more. Unfortunately my laptop fan has broken down and im getting it repaired on the 4th and I don't know when I will get it back. I might be able to use an old computer however. Also we would need to discuss more if we have any hope in finding scum.