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[smjjames]

You don't need super strength to wield any sword -- the heaviest ones weighed around six pounds

Really? Wasn't there this blunt giant sword that I've heard soo much about?

Yea, thats the one I was thinking of, I may have named it wrong though.

[Neonivek]

Well it wasn't the Zweihander... at least not commonly (as I always remember a lot of weapons are categories, such as Rapier of which there are multiple kinds)

[Neruz]

9 pounds is about the heaviest any actual weapon that was intended to be used ever got, and at 9 pounts we're talking real big two-handed maces.

The weight of swords and armor is one of the many myths that circulates around modern times; neither was very heavy at all.

[Aqizzar]

I remember some kind of Chinese greatsword whose name I can't recall, that was like 20 pounds and six feet long.  It was meant to kill a rider and his horse in one blow, but of course it's doubtful one was ever actually used.

At any rate, Dwarves being [STOUT]er than humans, with a lower center of mass, and big thick hands that can carve stone without tools, could probably wield some damn huge weapons.

[dragnar]

A sword might not weigh much, but it can easily feel like it does. Since the center of balance is several inches from the end of the pommel (I think) it takes a good deal more force to swing.

[Mephansteras]

9 pounds is about the heaviest any actual weapon that was intended to be used ever got, and at 9 pounts we're talking real big two-handed maces.

The weight of swords and armor is one of the many myths that circulates around modern times; neither was very heavy at all.

I can attest that armor can actually be very heavy. Easily 40-80 pounds, depending on the type and how much you have. The thing is, it's also well distributed across the body, so it's nowhere near as hard to move in as you might think. But a basic chainmail hauberk can easily weight 50 lbs all on its own.

[Neruz]

9 pounds is about the heaviest any actual weapon that was intended to be used ever got, and at 9 pounts we're talking real big two-handed maces.

The weight of swords and armor is one of the many myths that circulates around modern times; neither was very heavy at all.

I can attest that armor can actually be very heavy. Easily 40-80 pounds, depending on the type and how much you have. The thing is, it's also well distributed across the body, so it's nowhere near as hard to move in as you might think. But a basic chainmail hauberk can easily weight 50 lbs all on its own.

High quality plate and chain weighed about 20 - 25kg, which really isn't very heavy at all; a modern infantryman usually carries around 25 - 35kg worth of gear. A fully armored knight in good plate and chain could run down an unarmoured man, jump onto his horse and swim across a river, swimming was difficult certainly, but entirely possible, as knights tended to be extremely fit due to training.


If you're wearing 80 pounds of armor, then you're either in tournament gear, or wearing really shitty stuff made out of cast iron or something instead of tempered steel.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Well, the difference is that a modern infantry man removes the gear in a firefight or when on the move. When you are in battle, it's mainly taking cover, advancing slowly, and aiming/firing your weapon.

When you're wearing armor old school wise you have to remember that you're trying to KILL people with brute force while wearing all that crap, who may be wearing the same pile of crap, which wears you out extremely quickly. It's a little more physically grueling than taking aim and pulling a trigger, even though I know that has large physiological strain as well.

It is true that swords and other martial weapons are not as heavy as people expect, because you actually needed to to be able to swing them around. But speaking as a guy who performs with swords, you get tired very quickly swinging weapons around at full speed. In full armor you can kiss your endurance goodbye.

Also, there's a huge difference in styles which are hard to get into here. Axes and large swords which are made for hacking, and smaller, lither (perhaps curved) blades which are made for slicing.

I could go on a historical rant about why the mongols and muslim weapons/tactics were so effective against standard european fare for a long time, and how heavy armor and weapon design was a drawback for the crusaders during the crusades.

[Neonivek]

Well the weapons are deceptively as heavy as people think.

As for armors heavier then 50 pounds they probably weren't made for Knights, probably because it would hurt the horses back.

Though my information is rather mixed on how much horses should carry...

[Reese]

A sword might not weigh much, but it can easily feel like it does. Since the center of balance is several inches from the end of the pommel (I think) it takes a good deal more force to swing.

swords, well made ones, were balanced using weights in the pommel (that's the end cap opposite the blade for those of you playing at home) to put the center of mass closer to the grip and in a position that was more comfortable for the user to swing.  Mostly this was just on shorter swords that relied on quickness rather than unstopability, but you could certainly do the same thing to improve the manageability of larger blades.

[CobaltKobold]

I remember some kind of Chinese greatsword whose name I can't recall, that was like 20 pounds and six feet long.  It was meant to kill a rider and his horse in one blow, but of course it's doubtful one was ever actually used.

pick one. Hear about these a lot in games sometimes.

High quality plate and chain weighed about 20 - 25kg, which really isn't very heavy at all; a modern infantryman usually carries around 25 - 35kg worth of gear. A fully armored knight in good plate and chain could run down an unarmoured man, jump onto his horse and swim across a river, swimming was difficult certainly, but entirely possible, as knights tended to be extremely fit due to training.

I keep hearing it bandied about that they were supposed to be able to scale castle walls in that stuff.

[cowofdoom78963]

Oh wow the list is almost done.

It seemed like yesterday when it was covered with white and blue.

[Chthonic]

A fully armored knight in good plate and chain could run down an unarmoured man

Assuming that the knight and unarmored man in question are equally fit, I'm going to have to disbelieve you there.

As far as armor weights . . . I don't know if this is particularly relevant, not being an expert medievalist and all, but people of shorter stature are proportionally stronger than people with longer limbs (has to do with muscle cross section).  This might mean that a relatively shorter medieval individual would be able to wear thicker armor than a modern person--he could carry more pound-for-pound, and it would take less surface area's worth of armor to encase him.

[Neruz]

A fully armored knight in good plate and chain could run down an unarmoured man

Assuming that the knight and unarmored man in question are equally fit, I'm going to have to disbelieve you there.

Well duh, but that's the whole point. Archers generally weren't very fit, because they tended to be drafted peasants. Or more accurately they were quite fit, but lacked endurance. Knights on the other hand were usually nobles who had trained for speed, agility, strength and endurance their entire lives and thus were substantially more fit than the peasants, who were only fit because of the hard work they had to do.

As far as armor weights . . . I don't know if this is particularly relevant, not being an expert medievalist and all, but people of shorter stature are proportionally stronger than people with longer limbs (has to do with muscle cross section).  This might mean that a relatively shorter medieval individual would be able to wear thicker armor than a modern person--he could carry more pound-for-pound, and it would take less surface area's worth of armor to encase him.

Most people vastly underestimate the quality of medieval metalworking. Medieval blacksmiths were far superior to their modern day counterparts, we've lost most of the old techniques because we just plain don't need them anymore.

A full suit of high quality tempered steel plate and chain, even for a large man, will be surprisingly light. 30 kilos tops, and that's being pretty generous with the weight.

[Footkerchief]

Most people vastly underestimate the quality of medieval metalworking. Medieval blacksmiths were far superior to their modern day counterparts, we've lost most of the old techniques because we just plain don't need them anymore.

Somewhere I can read about this?