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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3631528 times)

jarathor

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9210 on: December 24, 2009, 12:38:00 pm »
Quote from: madjoe5 on December 24, 2009, 12:30:02 pm
Will my saves still be compatible? mods? utilities? graphics pack?

Anyone get a general feeling as to its release time?

Will there be some sort of exploitation/demonstration of the brand new features, or will we have to find them all out on our own?
I'll go ahead and answer what I know. Previous saves will not be compatible, nor will mods. Graphics mods should still work, but there is now graphics support for the different castes of creatures (for dwarves this means males and females), so if you want differing graphics for males and females you would need to add those in.
As for the release date, the general feeling seems to be that it will come out sometime in January or Feburary, but it isn't set in stone.

Off topic: is anybody else having a weird problem with typing replies into the box and the box jumping back to the top with every key press?
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Timst

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9211 on: December 24, 2009, 12:42:24 pm »
Quote from: madjoe5 on December 24, 2009, 12:30:02 pm
Will my saves still be compatible? mods? utilities? graphics pack?

Nope. Saves are broken, large changes to the raw files make many (if not every) mod incompatible, utilities will probably need some reworking too (if only to accommodate for the new version number). Graphics packs might be compatible, but since there's more critters and (underground) landscapes are going to change, most could probably use an art update.

Quote from: madjoe5 on December 24, 2009, 12:30:02 pm
Anyone get a general feeling as to its release time?

Very soon now, as there isn't much features left to implement. The most optimistic of us expect the release for the end of the year, but I'll probably go for mid-January to early February. There's a lot of testing to do, tough.

Quote from: madjoe5 on December 24, 2009, 12:30:02 pm
Will there be some sort of exploitation/demonstration of the brand new features, or will we have to find them all out on our own?

Some will be readily visible (if only because they'll be in the interface), but some other will be more hidden and may need a bit of research. The full list of (known) changes is available here : http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AT8EQVUjrv96ZGc5cnBwOHZfMjgyY3FzZHFtanA&hl=fr

Edit : Ah, ninja'd by Jarathor.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9212 on: December 24, 2009, 01:22:57 pm »
I am not saying that a Special Mood causing poison isn't a terrible thing especially on mass.

I am just saying that throwing it around like it is candy makes it a lot less special. It is divine inspiration not a cold no matter how rare that cold is. (Id think you would have to make a deal with powerful demons to force a special mood)
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Saber Cherry

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9213 on: December 24, 2009, 02:39:24 pm »
Quote from: Neonivek on December 24, 2009, 01:22:57 pm
I am not saying that a Special Mood causing poison isn't a terrible thing especially on mass.

I am just saying that throwing it around like it is candy makes it a lot less special. It is divine inspiration not a cold no matter how rare that cold is. (Id think you would have to make a deal with powerful demons to force a special mood)

If a poison had a 30% chance of instant death, a 20% chance of insanity, a 40% chance of sending the victim on a berserk rampage, and a 10% chance of causing a strange mood...  and it was expensive and rare...  that would be fair.  Especially if some dwarves occasionally snuck into the pharmacy and used it without permission.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9214 on: December 24, 2009, 03:34:04 pm »
Quote from: cooz on December 24, 2009, 08:34:24 am
Will we be able to fill new undergrounds with water? - e.g. dumping major river into it for like 10 years nonstop.

This came up a while ago:

Quote from: Toady One on May 04, 2009, 12:32:54 am
Quote from: Misterstone
As a side note, is there going to be some kind of mechanic in place to prevent dwarves from simply flooding the entire underworld with limitless water from a brook, like people do with caves now?  It seems a bit too easy to just flood anything right now.

Water leaving off of edges should prevent a complete flooding of the underworld, as the water would run off the edge, but you could get a lot of water down there and cause problems for creatures, especially in any depressions, it's true.  I guess there are a few things that could be done, but I'd like to keep the freedom to do what you like in there as well.  Even a brook has the ability to fill a gigantic impermeable pit if you give it enough time, and I don't think that's a bad thing.  Game-attack wise, many of the critters down there can swim and some can breathe underwater, so I don't think it'll be a game breaker, even if you could fill it up, which might be hard with edge drain.


Quote from: Igfig on December 24, 2009, 11:19:26 am
You know how in the old version dwarves had a [DAMBLOCK:1] tag to represent how even though they're small, they're built like tanks?  How is this toughness represented in the new version?

The most direct mechanism is creature-specific (or caste-specific if you want) attribute ranges:

"The attributes have entered the raws. You can set the range of the 19 attributes, with a slight bit of lumping how you like (the default is more bell-shaped, if you draw the bell with 6 lines), and you can also set the rate at which the attributes increase and decrease with use or lack of use, as well as the maximum value related to the starting value."

"We came up with some default attribute values for the main civilized creatures..."

Also mentioned here:
Quote from: Toady One
Quote
Toady, how hard would it be to add variable stat advantages/disadvantages to creatures much like DAMBLOCK or SPEED?
I'm talking a natural agility/strength/toughness/endurance boost or reduction.

That part is already in, I just haven't done dwarf mods yet (like their previous DAMBLOCK boost).  You can feed in caste-level attribute ranges, change rates (each of the different kinds mentioned before like increase/rust/demotion) and capping percentages (how much the att can increase beyond the original value for a given creature).

That's all supposedly completed, so I'm not sure why those attribute ranges aren't present in the recent dwarf raws.

Quote from: Saber Cherry on December 24, 2009, 02:39:24 pm
If a poison had a 30% chance of instant death, a 20% chance of insanity, a 40% chance of sending the victim on a berserk rampage, and a 10% chance of causing a strange mood...  and it was expensive and rare...  that would be fair.  Especially if some dwarves occasionally snuck into the pharmacy and used it without permission.

Just in case you didn't know, JoshuaFH just posted a Suggestions thread on mind-altering poisons.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 03:38:07 pm by Footkerchief »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9215 on: December 24, 2009, 04:16:22 pm »
Quote from: Saber Cherry on December 24, 2009, 02:39:24 pm
Quote from: Neonivek on December 24, 2009, 01:22:57 pm
I am not saying that a Special Mood causing poison isn't a terrible thing especially on mass.

I am just saying that throwing it around like it is candy makes it a lot less special. It is divine inspiration not a cold no matter how rare that cold is. (Id think you would have to make a deal with powerful demons to force a special mood)

If a poison had a 30% chance of instant death, a 20% chance of insanity, a 40% chance of sending the victim on a berserk rampage, and a 10% chance of causing a strange mood...  and it was expensive and rare...  that would be fair.  Especially if some dwarves occasionally snuck into the pharmacy and used it without permission.

Then it becomes a deadly rare cold but a cold non-the-less
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Stormrage

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9216 on: December 24, 2009, 04:27:34 pm »
Will the tall dwarves be able to equip human-sized equipment in the upcoming version? Or is it eons away?
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ToonyMan

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9217 on: December 24, 2009, 04:31:40 pm »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9218 on: December 24, 2009, 04:44:07 pm »
Quote from: Stormrage on December 24, 2009, 04:27:34 pm
Will the tall dwarves be able to equip human-sized equipment in the upcoming version? Or is it eons away?

As you can see in the weapon raws that Toady posted...

Quote from: Toady One on November 17, 2009, 10:06:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...the MINIMUM_SIZE/TWO_HANDED system is still in place like in the current version, just updated to use the new creature sizes.  The main difference is that individuals have varying sizes, so if a weapon were right on the edge of wield-ability for dwarves, only the tall ones could wield it.  Or the really fat ones, I guess.  So, answer's yes, although the system could use some improvements, like the grasp size restrictions we were discussing earlier in this thread.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9219 on: December 24, 2009, 05:01:39 pm »
Sort of like how only the strongest of warriors can use some of those big ass swords like claymores or something. I know its not a great analogy since just about any dwarf can get superdwarvenly strong given enough time.

Still, at what height (or size variation) does a dwarf stop bieng a dwarf and becomes a human? That will definetly be one for the philosophers to chew on. The same question can go in reverse as well.

Heh, I'm tempted to green that question out since now that we have absolute size numbers rather than more abstract numbers for size.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 05:04:00 pm by smjjames »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9220 on: December 24, 2009, 05:07:15 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2009, 05:01:39 pm
Sort of like how only the strongest of warriors can use some of those big ass swords like claymores or something. I know its not a great analogy since just about any dwarf can get superdwarvenly strong given enough time.

Not true in the next version: Attributes for a creature will be capped at double their starting value (which varies per individual).

Quote
Still, at what height (or size variation) does a dwarf stop bieng a dwarf and becomes a human? That will definetly be one for the philosophers to chew on. The same question can go in reverse as well.

There are more differences than height/body size, so the answer is "none", really.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9221 on: December 24, 2009, 05:10:12 pm »
Though we need to be careful we don't hit the "Handles don't matter" issue with weapons. So we don't get super strong pixies easily wielding greatwords or Dragons weilding Daggers with ease.

Though I'd think Toady should create some extra tiny and extra large weapons for the larger and smaller races. At least in my mind not all weapons scale well while others scale VERY well in one dirrection.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9222 on: December 24, 2009, 05:13:00 pm »
Quote from: G-Flex on December 24, 2009, 05:07:15 pm
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2009, 05:01:39 pm
Sort of like how only the strongest of warriors can use some of those big ass swords like claymores or something. I know its not a great analogy since just about any dwarf can get superdwarvenly strong given enough time.

Not true in the next version: Attributes for a creature will be capped at double their starting value (which varies per individual).

I meant the current version. Still though, what determines their starting values?

Quote
Still, at what height (or size variation) does a dwarf stop bieng a dwarf and becomes a human? That will definetly be one for the philosophers to chew on. The same question can go in reverse as well.

There are more differences than height/body size, so the answer is "none", really.
[/quote]

True, but I'm talking about height here.
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sproingie

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9223 on: December 24, 2009, 05:24:46 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on December 24, 2009, 05:01:39 pm
Sort of like how only the strongest of warriors can use some of those big ass swords like claymores or something.

You don't need super strength to wield any sword -- the heaviest ones weighed around six pounds.  The length of them might be pretty cumbersome to a dwarf, though I tend to think they have big meaty hands so an oversize hilt wouldn't pose a problem. 

It's hammers that need brute strength to use effectively.
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #9224 on: December 24, 2009, 05:28:26 pm »
Quote
You don't need super strength to wield any sword -- the heaviest ones weighed around six pounds

Really? Wasn't there this blunt giant sword that I've heard soo much about?
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