Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[VermilionSkies]

Nightkills are both edible and delicious.
My bodyguard action just redirects kills against my target to me.

[TricMagic]

A regular Gluttony over here huh. Fair enough. as a note who did you bodyguard? Probably Imp. Which is funny given they're now recognized as a major threat.

[VermilionSkies]

I did bodyguard Imp for both nights.
What would you say makes them a major threat, Tric?

[Magma Mater]

Vibe check says it's juicebox TricMagic Maximum Spin.

I'll be out of work in about two hours, once I'm free I'll see about composing a big ol' 'here's why you should vote Maximum Spin' post.

This seems right, but Vermilion and Imp seem to be saying that one of Oliverz and AnimePigeon are mafia.

K, going to stop you right there magma. First, you're the one who claimed you saw a scumslip and literally sat on it all ay. Second, you do not have the GM-given right to lead town around by the nose. Third, why in the world do you have such a convoluted ability to take actions just to "check" them? I have that ability for free even if it's random which one I check.

If Lurkers want to lurk, I've given them a time limit before I release the info I have. Something you never did. I'm giving town a chance to fess up before declaring them to be scum. Something you also don't seem to want.

...Yep Fallacy is scum by this point. Given the need for dead people leaving them alive is not prudent. Did you roll SK this time around, and why Max over me?

Wow look at you Mr. Good Abilities with your free ability-checking ability. Must be nice. Not all of us can be so lucky it seems. There isn't much point in questioning *why* I have the ability I have, considering multiple people can confirm it. I can use it on you tonight, if you'd like.
I'm also not trying to lead the town by the nose, by the way. I'm just pointing out ways that you could improve our chances of winning, but you're free to continue playing anti-town if you'd like, I can't stop you. Go ahead and keep doing silly things like suggesting that Fallacy is scum for having a horror-themed role in a monster-themed game.

One thing to note is what I gave Max is likely to turn the game on it's head. If they're scum, town is probably dead anyway. So Max/Imp are town for me. Anything else and we wouldn't be talking right now.

I did also just cause a no-lynch followed by two consecutive nights where nobody died (granted, nobody dying wasn't my fault, but it was also my hope), so I would certainly hope I'm not scum or I'm doing a really bad job!

Well it seems like scum are playing poorly regardless of who it is, so saying it couldn't be you because you'd be playing poorly doesn't make much sense.
Although, they're playing poorly enough that I should be hard-cleared now LOL

Nightkills are both edible and delicious.
My bodyguard action just redirects kills against my target to me.

You're saying that it's likely either AnimePigeon or Oliverz performed the kill n1, yes? Please confirm whether I have this correct:
You protected Imp night one and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and somehow informed you that AnimePigeon and Oliverz also targeted Imp (it would be nice to know if/why it seems that only Vermilion got this information, and not either of those two).
You protected Imp night two and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and told him that only Vermilion targeted him that night.

[Magma Mater]

That's weird, because I targeted you N1, and saw you visit Oliverz

I targeted magma mater n1 and Oliverz n2.
I chose to steal abilities on both nights and both nights my abilities remained unchanged.
Oliverz: how many abilities do you have?

Crystalizedmire, why did you choose these targets?

[VermilionSkies]

Magma,
According to what me and Imp know:
AP, Oliver, and I targeted him N1. I was targeted with one nightkill this night, but I am unable to know if I redirected it from Imp or if it was targeted at me to begin with.
N2, only I targeted Imp, and I was directly targeted with a nightkill.

[juicebox]

Magma,
According to what me and Imp know:
AP, Oliver, and I targeted him N1. I was targeted with one nightkill this night, but I am unable to know if I redirected it from Imp or if it was targeted at me to begin with.
N2, only I targeted Imp, and I was directly targeted with a nightkill.

I tracked AP N2, and I can confirm that they didn't target you, so between the two of them I think Oliverz is the more likely to be the killer between the two of them

[FallacyofUrist]

Why You Should Vote Maximum Spin:

Let me start by demonstrating just how appalling and blatant Spin's active-lurking (a term for participating in the thread regularly while not actually contributing any scum hunting) is.

You rolled scum again, didn't you, Fallacy.

Spin's first post. I don't mind the humor, it's normal for things to be more relaxed at the start of the game.

Also 1LOVE. Max, I apologize for what I'm going to do this game. I'm TOWN.

I will forgive you.

Same beans.

Is mafia kill usually not free on mafia universe or something?

It's not all that often free here, although we do like to mix it up a lot.

And did nobody read the bullet directly above the discord link y'all clicked in the OP?

Sure, about two weeks ago! I don't even think the discord link was there then, either.

Commentary on game rules. Not useless, but commenting on game rules and roles is an easy-to-use way of appearing useful while avoiding actually having to chase down scum.

FallacyofUrist, you're still doing the thing...

Complaining about me being 'insecure' or whatever. Still not relevant to finding scum.

Show of hands on whether I should do something really stupid and dangerous that MIGHT win the game?

I wonder how this relates to what Maximum Spin actually did, considering he described his potential action here as 'stupid and dangerous'.

FallacyofUrist, you're still doing the thing...

fallacy is town though

I believe in negative reinforcement.

More about the insecureness thing.

It wouldn't win the game or lose it all at once, but it could put us in a much better or worse position depending on how well town and scum play, potentially with a lot of emphasis on "much". So far my main focus has been thinking about when the right time to use my abilities is.

I think I'm gonna do it, but I'm really counting on you guys to, you know, do a good job.

This could reasonably describe skipping a Day.

That said, I'd consider a Day skip an overall net-negative for town. It removes the chance to perform an execution after one set of Night results, and makes it possible for scum to kill twice in a row without any discussion. Not that any kills seem to have happened, but that's mostly down to Vermillion's improbable heroism.

FallacyofUrist, you're still doing the thing...

If you want me to actually improve you're going to have to explain what 'the thing' is.

The one where you try to be webadict but don't succeed.

"Look, isn't it cool how I'm going to tie everything back to fear? Fear is cool, isn't it? So by extension, that means I'm cool. Cool and in control. And definitely not panicking, hahaha, wouldn't that be so funny good thing it isn't true help? Sorry, did I just say help? Must have been a slip of the tongue. I'm in control. Fear. I mean fear~."

I'm just going to say that I'm allowed to act in a way I think is fun, as long as I'm still trying to play the game and figure out who is scum, which I am.

I'm also curious what exactly you'd define as successfully acting like webadict.

I didn't say you weren't allowed.

Maybe I wasn't clear, Fallacy. I'm suggesting you should try actually being cool and in control.

More critiquing of my supposed insecurity. I continue to fail to see what this has to do with finding scum, at all.

I'm not even trying to disparage him, I want him to get over that insecurity he tends to bring to d1.

I wouldn't even mind him spending some time on this as long as he actually hunted for scum later in the Day.

(He did not.)

Post limits may actually be evil.

More overarching game mechanics commentary. I honestly agree with this, and I'll try a softer approach in my own games.

Maximum Spin, the fuck are you doing, it's been like two thirds of the way through Day 1 and you haven't even tried to pressure someone yet. Place an actually meaningful vote.

Or say that I'm scum, but if you do, please back it up. Make an actual case. You're not new, I fully believe in your power to bring the pain.

You seem oddly worried about what I do with my one little tiny minor inconsequential vote, though...

Spin downplays me pressuring him about not pressuring or hunting anyone else.

I'm just gonna say we should all vote for Wolfkey for now. It's a better idea than whatever this is.

Ends his joke vote on me and moves to Wolfkey, for... entirely unexplained reasons.

Seriously, you sure you aren't a jester?

Blunt mockery which, while in character for Spin, isn't really alignment indicative either.

Not really a fan of the Max lynch, I'd prefer Wolfkey over Max

Interesting how juicebox followed Max's vote, even after the no-execute trend had already started.

I should be annoyed, but I'm really not. I could actually make a no lynch work for town this time, though.

Kicks feet about. A cursory glance says yes I guess. Max, is it still negative reinforcement if you never moved your votes around?

I'm curious, who do you think I'm voting for right now?

Not sure what the annoyance is referring to.

Didn't say it was a day action.

But if you guys do end up lynching me I WILL make you go back and do it over (pretty sure that still fires).

Possibly one of his scummiest posts. The towniest reaction to a wagon on you is to figure out who you think is scum and then vote that person, while using your own behavior as a defense.

Not 'my role will cause Consequences (TM) if you execute me'. Especially when he was at no real risk of being executed at that point in time. Something of an overreaction.

It's not ideal - I'd rather lynch Magma or one of the do-nothings - but it could work really well with my plan here... IF I can trust the rest of town to do a good job. No Lynch

Where'd the suspicion of Magma come from? Why them in particular? Spin has yet to justify why a no-execute Day 1 would ever be a good idea, either.

With the Day winding down and ESPECIALLY if we do indeed nolynch, I'm going to ask the rest of you (town only pls) to have your game faces on, especially any investigative roles and other cool stuff. I wasn't kidding about this being a risky play but I'm convinced it's the right action to take now.

I think it's pretty solidly implied by now that he was responsible for the double-Night, which, I'd call much, much less useful to town than having a proper second Day to discuss the results of Night 1.

Why was it the right action to take?

That marks the last post of Day 1 for Spin, and the overall trend is clear - he didn't pursue a single serious case. Not even a solid pressure vote. He aided in the no-execute when the execution is one of the most reliable tools town has.

I feel like I'm justified in thinking that a Town Spin would have done better than that. Maximum Spin.

[TricMagic]

Imp's honestly good at analysis when they don't fall into rabbit holes.

Magma,
According to what me and Imp know:
AP, Oliver, and I targeted him N1. I was targeted with one nightkill this night, but I am unable to know if I redirected it from Imp or if it was targeted at me to begin with.
N2, only I targeted Imp, and I was directly targeted with a nightkill.

I tracked AP N2, and I can confirm that they didn't target you, so between the two of them I think Oliverz is the more likely to be the killer between the two of them

Hmm. I feel a distinct lack of teamwork here. Well, here's hoping the lurkers clear things up enough by tomorrow, before they become ex-lurkers.

Magma, you're really not thinking thing through. Horror Themed Role = Scum? No, Corpulent Bulk suggests either Fal got hit last night, or that it grows shots with the dead. And Fal denied the former and wants people dead so they don't have another powerless night. Town doesn't really care cause mafia is going to kill people anyway. Honestly sorta SK to me.

[FallacyofUrist]

I'm a cop, Tric. The 'needing people to die' thing is a balancing factor to being able to confirm people's alignments.

[TricMagic]

To counter your points Fal... It's a gamble. Two nights gives more information while leaving us at 10, with info from roleflips. Clearly kills happened. And Magma has been giving scum readings since the first few posts in wanting to control, let alone the one post that sucked up all discussion day 1.

As is, I'm fairly sure you're an SK this go around. But you're not actively dangerous unless you're instead a cult leader. You could have fought that with offering up more information on how your role works, but now you're listless and looking for an easy target. Why not target me, the actual SK, instead? Max probably doesn't get the references but my role submission is traditionally an SK.

Fallacy, if Max is mafia, we are already dead. That's just how the gift I gave works in scum's hands. If I was SK, you would have already lost too. I would have killed you last night.

Ninja. Bulletproof Cop is a bit ridiculous Fal. Given we have at least 3 that can't freaking die. And apparently 3 that can gather information. And 3 that can confirm their night action. And maybe 3 that can give people gifts, though at least 2. You can see the issue right?

Ironically, saying that yesterday would probably have resulted in a lynch. Instead we got to CFD range.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy, if Max is mafia, we are already dead. That's just how the gift I gave works in scum's hands.

Unless it makes him impossible to execute, no, we're not.

Ninja. Bulletproof Cop is a bit ridiculous Fal.

Yes, it is, but if nobody dies, I can't inspect, and can't resist kills, so. It has its drawbacks.

[Magma Mater]

Maximum Spin

If we lose if he uses Tric's ability then I guess we don't have a choice.

[TricMagic]

Max did just claim making us do the day all over again. And yes, mafia with that ability will murder us. Hence why you didn't get it.

[Imp]

Nobody hammer.  Hammerers should be killed/elimmed soon if they do so.  I have more to say and it's still to early in the day to say it; Tricmagic also has implied/stated he does too.


Want to remind everyone that conversion can exist, as can cults period.  I have no info about such a thing, but that should be remembered as a maybe in any game with no visible kills happening.  However, there is evidence/claims that a typical mafia exists, such as Vermilion's statement he has confirmation he stopped the "nightkill" twice, which drops the odds of conversion concern for me, because I do believe Vermilion.

I also want to mention it's possible that role names or even ability names might be usable by some roles/abilities, including evil, so I don't wanna encourage folks to share them widely without cause.  I get the concern about CM's role name, but urge us all to consider not telling them without cause; 'cause I think this is an enemy' is fine but oops indeed if wrong.


Vermillion, do you have any specific info about the kills you actually stopped?  Are they mafiakill exactly, an evil kill specifically, just a kill?  Nightkill can cover anything from vig to the mafiakill to any evil kill including serial killer and alternate evil group kills (like if we face 2+ mafia); it can also be slang for the mafiakill specifically.  I wonder because this could inform about the various and possible multiple anti-town we face.  However, continue to protect any specific mech of yours if you see fit, including lie.  There's other ways to resolve stuff if that could put you at risk.


So, here's what I observe.

4maskwolf went nearly silent as of D3, confirmed "I got something N1" but has not spoken at all otherwise.  Unlike Max, who apparently got something really nice and not from me, and Vermillion, who was a target for me to get something N2, both those folks seemed to think what they got was positive; 4maskwolf was really neutral or even avoidant.  Townie caution?  So much silence.

Which is fine.  4mask, I now want you to say what 1-shot ability you got, please.  As well as, like, comment on the game.  Or you can just go oh snap, people must know I'm evil, which, well, evil might be doing right now and good shouldn't be.  Wanna go for a ride or just die?

Juicebox looks fine to me so far.  I have no mech here currently but nothing I see from them looks wrong.

Animepigeon has not posted on the forum in many days.

Crystalizedmire is maybe fine.  This player is smooth when evil and useful when town, and playing in meta for both, extremely weak townlean here purely from read.  I have no mech here currently.

FallacyofUrist exists and is playing, my world and FoUs hasn't directly slammed into each other that I know.  I didn't give anything to FoU yet, FoU didn't say got a new 1-shot ability N1 or N2, FoU has not targeted me directly yet.  Playstyle, FoU is null to me right now, very interested in what FoU thinks is useful to do today, but aware that as town FoU can play a superman savior role in a way to get dead fast.  I'm not too concerned about FoU, in that if FoU has to die I wanna see if FoU can have more time.

PPE:  Wow we have a lot of inspects or claims of cop/inspection in this game.  I'm reminded that in games with multiple evils that need to hunt each other, evil can need some inspects too.  Not sure that FoU is evil by any means, but I'm thinking about how incredibly many forms of investigate we already appear to have claimed.

Max is playing bold and confident, I do think this Max probably isn't straight out mafia.  If evil, Max gotta deal with other baddies that he seems to think exist plus doesn't seem to want town weakened, I have no issue with Max this game so far and this could be a town Max.  I've seen a serial killer Max be super helpful for town while positioning himself to ruin us all, but I recommend one of our investigator-types, of which we appear to have a LOT, resolve that at some point.  I'm currently extremely unwilling to see Max flip 'just cause' - since we seem to have a lot of mech evidence likely available and more coming, I'm more focused on that this game.

Oliverz - I really want to know why/how he confirms me town, if it's mech or presumption based on other things that haven't been talked about yet.  If it's mech I wonder why Oliverz hasn't told us much about who else he mech-checked.  I don't know Oliverz alignment, not really eager for an elim here at all D3, but it could be needful later.  Pressure and normal play are fine, do not hammer this slot (or any other) until at bare minimum Tricmagic and myself say we've finished sharing information we haven't shared yet.

TricMagic, hehe.  Who's going down a rabbit hole now?  Not sure who recognizes who as a major threat in your eyes here?

A regular Gluttony over here huh. Fair enough. as a note who did you bodyguard? Probably Imp. Which is funny given they're now recognized as a major threat.

To be clear, I strongly trust Vermilion to have town intention.  If Vermilion has new concern about me, I missed it.  If anything I'm wondering if Vermilion has mech on my alignment or is just trusting it, if so I want Vermilion careful about trust in general (but I'm comfortable that Vermilion's town) - and not to presume the people he was town-presuming are town.  They could be, I don't know (I am, yes).

One thing to note is what I gave Max is likely to turn the game on it's head. If they're scum, town is probably dead anyway. So Max/Imp are town for me. Anything else and we wouldn't be talking right now.

Precious to know, thanks.  Umm, I can't end the game with my current abilities even if I used them for evil, but I am town and can help a lot in general I think.  I think you're mostly talking Max here, and very noted.

If Lurkers want to lurk, I've given them a time limit before I release the info I have. Something you never did. I'm giving town a chance to fess up before declaring them to be scum.

Me too.  I support this and really don't want any hammers early.  I have more to discuss and similar reasons to Tric's, though we're maybe talking about different people, gonna be fun to find out (there are multiple very quiet folks, so could be!)  Tric looks fine to me, I have no mech here currently but nothing I see from them looks wrong.

Vermilion reports he was informed he stopped 2 nightkills, also says he redirects kills from his target to himself.  He also calls me town; I'm not sure if that's a read or a mech result, or maybe a presumption about some other things going on.  For my part, I am highly confident Vermilion is town and certain Vermilion targeted me both N1 and N2 (it's totally possible Vermilion did other actions with other targets too, and/or multi-actioned me 1 or both nights.  I was only formed about fluff in connection to the actions ANYONE has taken on me, plus my own mech.)  Vermilion, if you have mech that lets you repeatedly get alignment info on someone, I wonder why you haven't reported N2 results, but I am sure you're town so I'm not worried about that.

Wolfkey has not posted on the forum in many days.

Mater

This seems right, but Vermilion and Imp seem to be saying that one of Oliverz and AnimePigeon are mafia.

Nah, I don't know.  But they are NOT confirmed pro-town to me, and I don't know if Vermilion is using mech or some guesses I don't agree with; if it's actually mech and not guesses about me knowing/choosing, that needs to be considered.  What they are, if anti-town, is pretty darn trapped, sorry fellows if you are evil, and you're fine if you can win with town.  This'll be figured out at some point, but it's even easier to figure out about those who have already targeted me.  It is possible they are both innocent, and both nightkills that Vermilion handled came from someone else - maybe even from someone else who was forced to target me (like that game I was town but a butler to the mafia, who would use me to kill, traceable to me not the maf player and completely without me knowing about it).  If we're in a situation like that, that's fine; we should be able to solve it.  That could potentially even be Vermilion being used, not to his knowledge, the game I was the maf killer while town, I was also the town doc and 100% able to prevent the kills if I targeted by choice who I was maf-forced to target on the same night.  B12 has seen stranger roles.

But I'm just saying they're not conf-town to me, and without mech I don't want them treated as conf town - but I'm fine with Vermilion being considered town.

Yeah and if you're town then you've grievously misplayed. Not just by refusing the offer, but by outing an obviously town ability. What kind of scum ability ASKS you whether you want to give an ability to them, and also tells you who's asking? I did target you because I figured you'd be the most likely person to do the crazy thing and take the gambit, but I'm not shocked that you didn't. This is why my ability is useless... nobody is going to give their abilities away even though it's the objectively correct play lmao

shudders  So, I was mod-killed in a not B-12 game in a situation almost exactly like you described only they wanted my ability to vote not my ability to use an ability and they were offering me abilities.  Anyway, you could be any alignment with that, especially on B-12.

If you give me an offer, I believe I will refuse it, I struggle to imagine an offer I would accept THIS GAME (worth considering some other maybe).  I'm kinda afraid to target Mater, I also saw a B12 game where a player got royally WRECKED by targeting the wrong person and it in some way involved devil deals too, and I am Imp.  This may not be similar but I don't wanna target Mater myself, thank you all so freaking much.  Not sure we elim him or someone else takes the risks I'm avoiding with targeting him, dunno, barely care at this point, my skin's crawling.

But no, I wasn't redirected, Mater, from targeting YOU (maybe someone else, we'll see).  I haven't dared target you yet, and your claims about not having abilities, your claims about inviting Tric to verify you don't, and now your devil deals, I don't want to touch you with anything except MAYBE my vote.  Not sure I'd vote you either, 'leper outcast unclean' comes to mind, but I'm probably just scared and silly.  Plus the weird stuff about CM trying to target you N1 and maybe being redirected to Oliverz instead, and maybe losing her ability's effect or who knows.... I don't know.  I want far away from you though.

Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game, so you're just going to waste the day sitting around doing nothing.

Why not?

Are you predicting or do you know we don't have a cop, or that if we do the cop can't cop right, or what?

You're saying that it's likely either AnimePigeon or Oliverz performed the kill n1, yes? Please confirm whether I have this correct:
You protected Imp night one and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and somehow informed you that AnimePigeon and Oliverz also targeted Imp (it would be nice to know if/why it seems that only Vermilion got this information, and not either of those two).
You protected Imp night two and were told that you prevented the NK.
Imp's ability triggered and told him that only Vermilion targeted him that night.

Good enough for what's been openly said in the thread so far.  There's complex stuff going on, I kinda am laughing about your idea that "Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game" when I'm not frazzling and wondering what you may know that I most definitely don't know (I'm not claiming cop at this time, or stranger than cop, or whatever; just that's one of the most obvious roles that could have abilities that may help catch people in the game, especially in combination with other types of inspections, tracks, apparently the NK can be detected when blocked...  There's a load of info, so something's up and this game is probably harder than it looks.

Although, they're playing poorly enough that I should be hard-cleared now LOL

I still gotta restrain 'kill Mater' reflexes when I read stuff like that though.  Why do you think you should be hard cleared, especially since "Nobody is getting caught by role actions this game"?

PPE:

then I guess we don't have a choice.

Something feels really wrong to me here.  I don't want to vote or target this dude.  I think this should maybe be elim but I'm not sure.  That's my subconscious talking, knowing that I don't know what could or couldn't exist in this game.  If he's not exactly our most urgent elim, we probably can do better than elim here today.

More info later.  I want to hear from more folks if possible, and also don't let me stop what folks are doing.  I for SURE don't have all the pieces yet.