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[TricMagic]

Tric is Tric. His success on Day 1 should grant him the Immunity Token from Today's Lynch, and town has wisely done this.

I am incredibly uncomfortable only with this.

Tric set up the double elim.  Which easily could have killed anyone, including Tric.

It happened to kill scum and neutral TP.

Anyone think Tric ensured that?

Screw you

Pretty much this. I activated the double lynch, and mostly sat back making pot shot at things I found odd, while building up a list of town candidates. Imp's the one who we can say earned immunity. Suggesting I did also suggests I'm not town-read by you.

[Imp]

@Imp:
Can you use your infinite energy to give a comprehensive N1 claim guide? You did this for us in the previous game I was in with you and it would be a better use of your time I think.

Gladly, be a bit.

If Max wants to make bizarre bazaar deals and we accept, especially if it's 'to wipe kill sphere from the game, for now at least' (Not sure if that's what he claims he can do,) a probable good use of your cop is to check for who has kill sphere N2.  If it kicks in before he wipes them, you'll know that info, and we have some people we already expect to have it, helps confirm everything's working as expected.  If nobody has that sphere, that suggests that his wipe happens before your inspect, or something else weird and wrong is going on, but does confirm you're whammied or kill is wiped, which we should get confirmation from the known kill-sphere people.

If NJW wants to tell us if the item he trades me has kill sphere on it or not?

If it does, that would be my only kill sphere ability.  I'm taking that item out of play, unless when I see it I realize have a incredibly good reason not to.  But I presume that gun causes deaths and we don't want kills right now.  I am committed to helping ensure prevention of kills that I cause, trigger, or be involved in while Page is in effect.

So, this is a potential test, if it has kill, and if you track kill, to see if I can hide something before you can see it or not.  That tells us more about if other actions can happen before you see them or not, though I can't ensure that other people's actions time the same as mine.  Bonus, I don't care if you tell everyone or not, and you have a way to tell two others that I can't hear, so if it's ever needed to reveal later, hopefully they're both alive to do so if you're not.  But you can tell the class if you think it's useful/fine.  I am intending to do only pro-town things.  I am not intending to reveal everything I do.  I will answer questions and even 'say ahead of time' what I intend to do - if I think it's more pro-town to do so than not.

I'll get to work with a list of all claims.  Glad you're in this crazy game!

[FallacyofUrist]

Starting with NJW since webadict made a gazillion posts. NJW's activity is comparatively tame.

NJW2000's attitude towards ToonyMan:

Toonyman: I think the Bible Page he's asking people to take is NAI, as scum could be saddled with it on a blowback role. Haven't been impressed by the weak prods at Sofa, or the way he didn't actively try to find a way out of the Bible Page predicament, but he generally is a bit more aggressive than this as scum. Could see him as survivor, or just less invested town.

Day 1, NJW reads Toony as less-invested town, then switches gears a bit.

Toonyman is fading into the background, talking about mechanics, and prodding Sofa in an unconstructive but potentially lethal way.

Ok, he posted the above as I was writing this, but broadly speaking my point stands.

He doesn't seem that invested in that read, though, as he refocuses on the Bible Page stuff, then moves over to voting me.

NJW's first serious vote Day 1 seems to be on Spin.

Though unlike web, NJW does have some Day 2 content on Toony.

Suspect:
Toonyman: he's being cooperative and looking useful today. Nonetheless, D1 does not paint him in a good light. Also, did he choose to check if anyone had a secondary wincon? Odd priority if so.

NJW's first Day 2 read of Toony places him pretty similar to how he read him on Day 1, though a bit scummier.

Toonyman: who did you think might have been playing to a second wincon? Why did you decide to share the information today? And given a second wincon would probably make someone behave more 3p than town, were you hoping to use the info for scumhunting or 3p hunting?

Which, by the way, you’re still talking about. Most people would stick to the straight-and-narrow after a D1 like yours.

He does question Toony, a little bit.

NJW2000's attitude towards webadict:

Webadict: more of a mechanical focus than usual, discussion slightly tends towards creating arguments over putting pressure on folks. Coaching QQ a bit feels more usual web. Could also just be emerald-collecting aligned... which isn't great, as I suspect that would give him an incentive to kill people.

Day 1, NJW reads webadict as scummy based on his mechanical focus. He later devalues his third-party suspicions, but retains the scum read.

Well, I'm not satisfied there's a case against Sofa for much other than acting weird and having a terrible read on Tric, but Web seems like a reasonable elim. I genuinely believe this frustration is within his scum range, if he's genuinely feeling ill. Otherwise I might even take it as townspew.

Stupidly rolling the dice on Web, CM and Sofa would be a fun revenge on everyone after having to read a day of this size, but never let it be said I trolled in anger

Webadict, to lock in this outcome. And also because I genuinely feel it might be the right play.

NJW did vote webadict near the end of Day 1, however, by that point web's execution was pretty much guaranteed (Web had 4 votes, sofa had 5, CM had 2), so it could just be accepting the inevitable and trying to get some town credit. I'm not willing to assign too much weight to that play.

Wait, unvote, if I'm reading right we don't want a tie because we don't know how it resolves.

The same for this.

NJW never actively pushed for web's death, nor did he ever vote or pressure webadict before the end of the Day.


Alright, let's test this.

NJW2000: Do you think Toony is worth a serious vote? If not, why not?

[Crystalizedmire]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-snip-

Hmm. OK. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I agree with your logic re: discrediting Imp being a good play for scum!me, though I don't remember how seriously people were taking Imp at that moment. I thought the filler was scummy because Imp posted more filler in AFM than FBYOR, and this reminded me of the former, but I'm not sure I explicitly said that in-thread.

You say I "started a wagon on you," but you already had two votes on you at the time. What do you mean?

I follow your logic re: voting sofanthiel not being a way to save webadict, but you may be overlooking something: with sofanthiel well in the lead, voting him wasn't a way to do anything; he would be lynched regardless. For a town player who had a strong opinion on which of the second-place contenders should be lynched, as I did, it would make sense to vote for one of them to help swing that vote. I did mention at the time that I would lynch sofanthiel over you if it somehow came to that:

My thought process is that anyone hiding an Emerald is scum

How did you arrive at that conclusion exactly?  For all we know, emeralds are nothing but fancy rocks for anyone who isn't you.  This means that the only aspect determining the value of hiding the fact of their possession is your alignment and whether they give you the capacity to do tremendous good or grave evil.  Revealing ownership of them says more about the player's view of you than their own role.

I'm going to vote Crystallizedmire for going quiet again.

You switch a lot without the best rationale.  EP, riddle me this: if Crystal had gone 100% radio silent since the post I'm quoting, would you seriously jeopardize the chance to lynch your suspect #1?  If it's pointless pressure, I don't doubt Crystal's ability to see right through it.

I don't think I'm doing that. I think you will be lynched regardless of whether the other lynch is Webadict or Crystallizedmire. If I'm wrong, and the choice is between you and Crystallizedmire, I will switch back to Crystallizedmire.

EBWOP: Switch back to you.

[/quote]
I mean in the sense of trying to get me and sof eliminated instead of Webadict. By getting another vote on the wagon. Reading back the posts, it ties the votes together. When that didn't work, Webadict voted sofanthiel because I think Webadict realized that the wagon won't gain any traction. Maximum Spin switched to Webadict afterwards:

Not worth it, I'm gonna go to bed.  sofanthiel, kill Crystal Tomorrow, last one's somewhere in Fal, Imp, or NJW

This entire conversation is a waste of end-of-day.

webadict. There, Imp, you're free. I don't see what you think you see, but I do know that if you scoop your brain out and microwave it for sixty seconds, it kills brain parasites, and I thought you should know that.

Another thing, it seems like Maximum Spin changed his votes again when Fallacy was convinced by Maximum Spin to vote me:

... FallacyofUrist, if you don't switch votes to CrystalizedMire today, I will not only not untether you from EuchreJack, we're lynching both of you tomorrow even if it throws the game, just to spite you. If you switch, then I'll also switch back and there will be only one lynch today like a normal, civilized game of effigy mob violence. Can you do that for me? I made you town last game, you owe me.

Is that actually how it works? With the voting mechanics and all.

Giving Web the 50/50 is probably the best bet.

Well.

If there's anyone I trust here, it's you.

Crystalizedmire. Imp doesn't think web's flip will inform as to ToonyMan's alignment, anyways.

CrystalizedMire.

If I understand how this double-lynch power works, then please, just, nobody change your votes, let me have this.

Then Quarque changed their vote to be on Webadict which causes Maximum Spin to realize it's a lost cause to try to save Webadict:

sure: webadict

sofanthiel

I dunno, maybe this works. I trust ToonyMan is town here and I think he can read webadict, but there's nothing I can do to stop it anymore, so might as well hope it works out.

hmmmm. Okay, I think I talked myself into voting Maximum Spin but I'm not ruling out the possibility of a Elephant Parade/Webadict/Maximum Spin scumteam

[Imp]

I think the current votes are this:

Vote Count — Day 2
- Crystalizedmire -
- Elephant Parade - [1] Crystalizedmire
- Euchrejack - [1] TricMagic
- FallacyofUrist -   
- Imp -
- Maximum Spin - [3] NJW2000, Euchrejack, Crystalizedmire
- NJW2000 - [1] FallacyofUrist
- Toonyman -
- TricMagic -
- No Elimination

Current Elimination: Maximum Spin

Hammer at 5 votes. Day ends 6th February 10pm GMT.

I just woke from a nap.  Barely touched the claims, gonna relax and chill out and feel good.  It might be 12-15 hours before I post the claims - maybe even 20 hours.  I still don't want a hammer, I still don't think people are done talking, but I am currently in relax and listen mode.

[Elephant Parade]

Thanks, CM.

I like your logic here but am :( about you switching over from the old popular lynchee to the new. But then, I also want to lynch MS today. On the whole, I think you're probably town.

Did you do anything to develop your read over the two days your vote was on me?

[EuchreJack]

Tric is Tric. His success on Day 1 should grant him the Immunity Token from Today's Lynch, and town has wisely done this.

I am incredibly uncomfortable only with this.

Tric set up the double elim.  Which easily could have killed anyone, including Tric.

It happened to kill scum and neutral TP.

Anyone think Tric ensured that?

Screw you

Pretty much this. I activated the double lynch, and mostly sat back making pot shot at things I found odd, while building up a list of town candidates. Imp's the one who we can say earned immunity. Suggesting I did also suggests I'm not town-read by you.

Oh, Townie Tricy Tric.
My post was a review of the game state.
Upon review, I should have put greater emphasis on how I think you are town, and how town thinks you are town.

In fact, your emphasis on me, just because you think I'm not paying you enough attention, only further proves that you are town.
You would hardly care if you were scum.

What are your reads on the other players?

[Maximum Spin]

At NQT's recommendation, I took the day off from the forum. This was good. Then I had to come back and catch up on the entire thread. This was bad.

Just to be clear, yes, I can remove "Kill" from the game. If I do so, actions used the same phase will be changed. I think I'm just going to go ahead and do that if I get the chance, because it seems like a good idea.

This is an interesting comment from MS D1.

It was about Max's opinion, of EP's opinion, of my opinion, of web's reads, specifically his scum reads.

I still don't understand how Max thought web was scumreading Qua.

Here web outright supported Toony's read:  "Quarque - took fruit-seller and protection with something else, I think they've been upfront and honest with their behavior" with web going Correct on Quarque.
[...]
So MS is really weird there.

I'm utterly baffled by how you took "Quarque was going after web" and switched it around to "Max thought web was scumreading Qua". Those are logical converses. Please reread.

@Max:
If you're town I think Jack is more likely to be mafia than Elephant, although I think Elephant is still possible. Is there anything I'm missing here?

No, I agree with this statement.


If there's anything directed at me that I missed, feel free to bring it to my attention, this is a rare case where it's more likely that I genuinely didn't notice than that I didn't care.

[Maximum Spin]

Jeez, Fallacy, you can just tell me that kind of stuff in masonchat.

That's weird, I thought you were my lil' Masonbuddy, but what do I know?

It's funny to me that Toony gets credit for web "latching on to him as a sucker", but I don't even though web opened d1 with posts like this.

Instead, EuchreJack laughably describes our interactions as "just enough to look like we aren't avoiding each other" (paraphrased, I don't wanna go back and direct quote), when... actually, web is almost certainly the player I interacted with most. Because I thought we were in a town vibe.

[Elephant Parade]

Toonyman: Could you confirm that the chat-invite copy you got is what I said it is

[Maximum Spin]

Anyway, whatever, I think it's EuchreJack for reasons I have previously established, so screw you, NJW

[Imp]

I'm utterly baffled by how you took "Quarque was going after web" and switched it around to "Max thought web was scumreading Qua". Those are logical converses. Please reread.

Very nice answer, thank you.

Okay, Max.  I'm wondering, when you have time and if you feel inclined, would you explain the game and how we can move towards your wincon?

I get the bazaar, I maybe get a few other obvious things.  But if you think it's pro-your-wincon, would you share what you think it's generally idealized for us to do/not do?

[Maximum Spin]

I don't really think I'm doing well at keeping my wincon in view at the moment. I'm angry at myself for falling for web's bullshit again, and irritated with the other players for... a few things, but mostly for effectively simultaneously treating me as freakishly good at mafia who couldn't possibly be fooled and is capable of any kind of deception, yet also staggeringly incompetent at mafia as the argument of the moment demands. I admit I certainly try to cultivate the former impression, but it's the inconsistency and goalpost-moving that bothers me. It seems like anything I can say in my own defense will be pointless because any objection can be dismissed as WIFOM, so I'm better off just giving my reads as best as I can, so that town will have them to go on the next Day. But I really, really hate it when I'm the one who has to be lynched so that everyone else can move on.

Anyway. You asked me to explain the game.

I think the following: Me, Imp, EuchreJack, Fallacy, CrystalizedMire, and Elephant Parade all seem to have confirmed night actions. TricMagic's action isn't confirmed, but whoever has the magnifying glass now (Imp, I think?) can at least confirm that it exists and whether it's a free action. I don't remember ToonyMan's claim or NJW2000's claim, and I lack bandwidth to go back and check, but I'm not extremely worried about this because I wouldn't rate either of them as a top suspect. I figure Imp is probably right that there's double acting, and as I understand it, Elephant Parade has confirmed double-acting with an action that can't be confirmed (I was counting the chat action as the confirmed one, since ToonyMan confirms being in a chat), but I'd be hard-pressed to suspect that he wouldn't just deny double-acting altogether if he were scum. I can imagine something like "adding people to chats is a free action and he knew EuchreJack had claimed that ability, so it would be suspicious if EuchreJack could do it for free but EP had to use a full action for it, so he came up with a double-acting claim", but I'm not seriously invested in that possibility at the moment, just raising it for the sake of completeness.
I DO think that, if Elephant Parade can double-act while adding people to chats, EuchreJack probably can too, so this really makes more of the suspicion go the other way, but I might justifiably be accused of prejudging that since I already suspect EuchreJack most.
I could also imagine CrystalizedMire's or Imp's item-stealing powers being combined with a double action, in theory, but I don't really see how this would make sense with the current gamestate, so I'm not especially worried about that either.

I say all this because I want to have my thoughts out there for the future, but I don't strongly believe that the game is mechanically solveable, so it's probably not amazingly useful. I do think that notquitethere would probably limit the amount of power a single player can put out in one go, but I don't really think any of the confirmed actions are completely implausible for a double-actor. Maybe not even mine, honestly, although mine feels a little more powerful compared to other claims since it can change abilities radically, but nobody wants to hear me try to clear myself, anyway.

I think the most likely setup based on what we already know is 2 mafia and 2 third parties, maybe 3 thirds if two are neutral. 3 mafia and just 1 neutral third party is barely within the lines of what I'd believe, though.

I think the most likely partner for web is the player who was playing least townie all d1, and who web repeatedly covered for, assuring the people who suspected him (while buddying them the whole time) that he was at worst just a third party, without any actual arguments for this. Yes, I can imagine other interpretations and I can hardly blame people for finding me scummy here, but it seems like it... probably is just that simple.

Anyway, I also just noticed/remembered that Imp said the thing about me possibly "scrubbing evidence" a few posts ago. While I know this is WIFOM, I want to state that I can't do that. Even if I removed a sphere from players who have it going forward, replacing it with new spheres, I am fairly certain that wouldn't change the results of spherecopping on actions that already happened and weren't affected, and it probably, based on how the ability is written, won't even affect what spheres that player shows up as having chosen, just the spheres the actual abilities have.

Lastly,

I'm utterly baffled by how you took "Quarque was going after web" and switched it around to "Max thought web was scumreading Qua". Those are logical converses. Please reread.

Very nice answer, thank you.

If you were being sarcastic, sorry, I didn't mean for that to come out caustic.

[EuchreJack]

@Max: Would you mind running through the process that you removed other suspects and concluded that I was your top scum pick?
Also: A vote for me is a vote for Day 3: Electric Boogaloo, just an FYI.

[Imp]

@Max: Would you mind running through the process that you removed other suspects and concluded that I was your top scum pick?
Also: A vote for me is a vote for Day 3: Electric Boogaloo, just an FYI.

I'm working on another post, sadly my first real WoT this game prolly.  I'll spoiler it, sorry for length, but I paused it.

EJ, I'm clueless but I'm part of the class even though I joined late/didn't do the homework.

Tell me what that means, the Boogaloo stuff.  With no idea what you mean, I think you're threatening horrible things to happen if we lynch you.  But that's just my instant read of the words, tone, phrasing.  I bet you have a specific meaning?