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[Elephant Parade]

I'm just joshing.

Whew.  Also, yay.  So, not all 'filler' is scummy?

No. I had the opportunity to make what I thought would be a funny joke, so I took it. I would not begrudge someone else for doing that, or indeed for posting other filler content like votecounts. It's the quantity of filler and the filler:content ratio that I look at.

[FallacyofUrist]

[1] It's possible that it's sofa, Crystal, Fal, I don't like the insistence on ToonyMan and not picking a side here.  I think sofa is always scum here, Crystal could reasonably pull off shielding sofa or accidentally protecting, but those three together makes the most sense based on the vote spread.

[2] Which proposal do you believe they didn't get a response to?  As far as I can tell, this is a "fuck it" type of post.

[3] True, which is why if I die, execute them.

[1] The last time I hard latched onto someone as scum, I was right. But if you want to defend ToonyMan, go right ahead, I'll hear you out. Why isn't he scum? Why is sofa scum, similarly?

[2] Beats me. I didn't see anything like that, but I haven't read the thread super thoroughly, so I may have missed it.

[3] Dangerous, that. I know you're biased against Imp, but a frustrating playstyle isn't the same thing as being scum. Context matters.

Alright, shouldn't you be agitating to put webadict back on the menu? Even if you get your longshot ToonyMan lynch, another will d— Ahem. Another player will be lynched.

(Crystallizedmire)

You could vote ToonyMan. Imp could. Jack could. This isn't undoable. It's just that nobody wants to attack the throne of ToonyGod, despite his scumminess.

Don't be afraid. He's only mortal, just like us.

@Fallacy: So, web has basically been helping me all day long. You like me, right? So web helping me should outweigh any short-term dealing he might have done with Toonyman to help me.

Sigh. You're right, I forgot to take that into account. As much as scum can prop up town players as a tactic to get town cred, that could also be genuine.

It's just, if Toony isn't scum with web, who is Toony scum with? Quarque?

... actually, that sounds kinda real.

[webadict]

Oh web, I'm been at least as obnoxious advocating for Toonyman's death in prior games. It's hardly alignment-indicative, just bad play.

@Fallacy: So, web has basically been helping me all day long. You like me, right? So web helping me should outweigh any short-term dealing he might have done with Toonyman to help me.

I get it, ToonyMan's just such a tempting execution target, but ToonyMan is a terrible execution on Day 1 for multiple reasons, the least of which is that he's a lot better at killing his teammates than not, but also, I think he's legitimately trying to find scum.  I think you and him clash on ideas and methodology, like... every game.  Which is disappointing.

Ninja
Oh my fucking god, VOTE ME INSTEAD OF TOONYMAN.

JUST FUCKING VOTE ME!  WE SHOULD NOT VOTE TOONYMAN HOLY FUCKING SHIT I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS HAS TO BE A WHOLE THING!

[Elephant Parade]

Alright, shouldn't you be agitating to put webadict back on the menu? Even if you get your longshot ToonyMan lynch, another will d— Ahem. Another player will be lynched.

(Crystallizedmire)

You could vote ToonyMan. Imp could. Jack could. This isn't undoable. It's just that nobody wants to attack the throne of ToonyGod, despite his scumminess.

Don't be afraid. He's only mortal, just like us.

This is the second time you've replied to the part of my post where I say Toony isn't getting lynched and ignored the rest of it. Here's my point: Taking it for granted that Toony is lynched, another player will be lynched along with him. Therefore, I find it surprising that you would focus exclusively on Toony, since we would still have to decide on a #2. I would like to understand your thinking process.

[FallacyofUrist]

Okay, it's hard to switch gears from the usual 'one player will be executed' to 'two players will be executed'. This is a unique situation I don't have experience with.

[Maximum Spin]

I would like to understand your thinking process.

Allow me to be of assistance. "Durr durr, I'm Fallacy and I constantly complain about not being town enough so that I can constantly complain about not knowing how to play town, enabling me to get away with never trying to improve in the slightest and just spouting dumb shit until I get lynched, derp."

[Elephant Parade]

Okay, it's hard to switch gears from the usual 'one player will be executed' to 'two players will be executed'. This is a unique situation I don't have experience with.

That's one of two answers I expected you to give, and it's plausible.

[FallacyofUrist]

Secondarily, if I focus on executing a pair of players, ToonyMan x Quarque, for example, everyone will be like 'but Fallacy, nobody will execute ToonyMan, so vote Quarque' and I get that, but I am being told not to vote the person I find scummiest, and instead to vote for someone who is not the scummiest, and it is absolutely infuriating to deal with that.

Can we not just, execute the scum?

[Imp]

Spoiler: Updated reads list (click to show/hide)

Toons:  Strong town read, playing pro-town.  Absolutely unacceptable D1 elimination.

Tric:   Reasonable pro-town play, strongly opposed to a D1 elim.

NJW: My first game with, my read lacks any meta.  Smart player, following many details closely.    ... and that's my opinion from a player with only 11 posts so far.  I like those posts though!  I don't have a deep read on NJW, but strongly opposed to them being a D1 elim.


EP: Decent D1 play, good interaction with other players, reminds me of their play in FoU's last game.  Seems to be following the thread pretty closely.  Not agreeing to a D1 elim, but only somewhat opposed.

EJ:  Has not claimed/explained their connection back to FoU except with non-claiming behavior.  Do not like their playstyle this game, didn't even answer if they could confirm anything about FoU or not, low engagement, high defensiveness.  Interested in seeing the tangle between Max/FoU/EJ resolve, I think there's information there.  The way EJ handled the chat creation seems more townie than much EJ has done today.  Mostly null read, and with entanglement issues opposed to a D1 elim.

Qua:  I have concerns about an early faketown feel, strong survival/trade focused, not moving towards town wincon past 'use me for help - by trading', however later into D1 Qua appears to be more clearly moving towards a town wincon.  Mostly null read, slightly opposed to a D1 elim.

MS:  Definitely an MS flavor, cards close to chest.  Playing reasonably well towards pro-town.  Would not prefer to be a D1 elim, but not opposed if based on vote shenanigans.  Dislike some stated reasoning about support of web for reasons that don't jive, so if MS sets up a 2nd place tie so only sof dies, and I can jump from web to MS to ensure the double lynch, I would probably accept that trade.  Otherwise weakly opposed to a D1 lynch.

CM: Curious and explorative, not much to read yet.  Reasonable for CM play, probably going to develop better with more time.  Would not prefer to be a D1 elim, but only lightly opposed.

FoU:  Hard to read, hard to understand the thoughts of.  Looks scummier to me this D1 than D2 Max's game where was town, but not by much, and I've never played beside FoU scum.  Would prefer not to be a D1 elim, but not opposed.

sof:  Lots of weirdness and actually much probing of other players, but odd reads and overall odd.  Slight town read based on my very poor understanding of sof meta, but not opposing a D1 lynch because I have nearly no confidence in that read.


web:  Playing with interest and focus like I've seen scum-web play in game, and without the interest and focus I've seen town-web play with.  Focus for most things unrelated to emerald gain feels very off.  Very bad vibe, glad for a D1 elim.

[Imp]

Secondarily, if I focus on executing a pair of players, ToonyMan x Quarque, for example, everyone will be like 'but Fallacy, nobody will execute ToonyMan, so vote Quarque' and I get that, but I am being told not to vote the person I find scummiest, and instead to vote for someone who is not the scummiest, and it is absolutely infuriating to deal with that.

Can we not just, execute the scum?

You can vote who you want.

If we all agreed on who was the scummiest, then we'd have already hammered.  Unless we were attempting to agree on second-scummiest to remove with them, but I bet we'd have agreed and sorted.

Your top scum pick is my top town pick.  That makes it very hard for me to align with you.

Your reasons for him being scummy, I don't see them, or get them.

My top scum pick is your second top scum pick, based on what you said - but you have entirely different reasons, and your reasons are not ones I even find scummy.

So, that's why we can't just 'execute the scum'.

Your main choice right now probably is a compromise vote, or a 'committed to my answer' vote.

Either one will greatly influence who is executed, because of likely vote shenanigans that will happen differently based on what you do with your vote.


Since we have double elim, and you don't have mass agreement on your top scum pick, you may want to consider if you think there's more than one anti-town in the game, and who besides your dream target you wanna see gone.  Or not.  But I recommend it.

[webadict]

Secondarily, if I focus on executing a pair of players, ToonyMan x Quarque, for example, everyone will be like 'but Fallacy, nobody will execute ToonyMan, so vote Quarque' and I get that, but I am being told not to vote the person I find scummiest, and instead to vote for someone who is not the scummiest, and it is absolutely infuriating to deal with that.

Can we not just, execute the scum?

Deal with Toony Tomorrow.  Toony isn't a viable choice.  Toony is being Townread by a lot of people.  That's not viable.  You cannot make a compelling case with 4 hours left in the Day.  You can start votes on Quarque!  That's more viable than Toony!  You can vote me!  That's absolutely viable!  You can't vote Toony!  Voting Toony is such a bad move, I don't know why you would make it.  I don't understand!

[Maximum Spin]

I don't understand!

Please see above.


Everyone having this conversation is stupid. Yes, including you, webadict. Especially you. You should know better.

[FallacyofUrist]

Deal with Toony Tomorrow.  Toony isn't a viable choice.  Toony is being Townread by a lot of people.  That's not viable.  You cannot make a compelling case with 4 hours left in the Day.  You can start votes on Quarque!  That's more viable than Toony!  You can vote me!  That's absolutely viable!  You can't vote Toony!  Voting Toony is such a bad move, I don't know why you would make it.  I don't understand!

I am voting Toony because he is scum, the best reason to vote for anyone! More scummy than you, more scummy than Quarque, and I only have one vote.

Why are you protecting him?

Your main choice right now probably is a compromise vote, or a 'committed to my answer' vote.

Either one will greatly influence who is executed, because of likely vote shenanigans that will happen differently based on what you do with your vote.

I think you're town. I really do. I just think you're wrong about ToonyMan.

Do you think web's read of ToonyMan as Town is genuine? If not, why not?

I'm not absolutely ruling out a vote switch, it's just, last game switching my vote off web was a terrible idea, and I can see a similar mistake playing out in front of me, but I don't want it to happen again.

[Elephant Parade]

Secondarily, if I focus on executing a pair of players, ToonyMan x Quarque, for example, everyone will be like 'but Fallacy, nobody will execute ToonyMan, so vote Quarque' and I get that, but I am being told not to vote the person I find scummiest, and instead to vote for someone who is not the scummiest, and it is absolutely infuriating to deal with that.

Can we not just, execute the scum?

What bothered me wasn't your choice to push your case on ToonyMan against the odds, it was your refusal to do anything else in addition to that, which would be bad even if we weren't facing a double lynch. I am less bothered now that you're discussing people other than ToonyMan.

[webadict]

Not worth it, I'm gonna go to bed.  sofanthiel, kill Crystal Tomorrow, last one's somewhere in Fal, Imp, or NJW