Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Elephant Parade]

Imp, this is the stupidest request of all time, but could you categorically state that you are town? This is probably just a wording thing but the way you talk about "my alignment" gives me the heebie-jeebies. If you already have and I just missed it (very possible), then my bad.

[Imp]

Unknown and impossible to confirm if redirected or not:
Esteemed The Canadian kitten, who got a 'town' result on a redirectable action that confirms the target didn't target The Canadian kitten or use a kill action that night.

I just want to clarify that I wouldn't know if the target used a kill action or not, I'll kill them automatically if they used a kill action and/or visited me.

Yeah, that's what I meant by 'confirms the target didn't target you or use a kill action'.  That instadeath if they do - that's quite the confirmation, to my thinking.

I confirm I am not intending to target Esteemed The Canadian kitten tonight, and that I'm not intending to be redirectable.

Esteemed The Canadian kitten, I support you not being clear about who you intend to target, because if someone can redirect and wants your announced target dead, that's a good way to help ensure that happens.

[Imp]

Imp, this is the stupidest request of all time, but could you categorically state that you are town? This is probably just a wording thing but the way you talk about "my alignment" gives me the heebie-jeebies. If you already have and I just missed it (very possible), then my bad.

I am town.  I have been town all game.  I have stated so my second post of the game, along with a huge fear of conversion.  I state I have not been converted, and now that I've 'become the Esteemed Webadict' and decided not to try and find some probably-non-existent way to get my original role back (but refuse to believe it may not be out there anyway, doing whatever it does, go Esteemed other-self go!) I will never be possible to convert.

state a riddle that is true of me right now:

I am town and inspect as town.

[ToonyMan]

Imp, this is the stupidest request of all time, but could you categorically state that you are town? This is probably just a wording thing but the way you talk about "my alignment" gives me the heebie-jeebies. If you already have and I just missed it (very possible), then my bad.

The sooner you stop suspecting Imp the sooner you can focus on what actually matters.

[Elephant Parade]

Thanks. Like I said, silly request.

[FallacyofUrist]

@Fallacy: If a player with Contractual Niceness broke its condition, would they be informed that they had done so?

Not strictly, but players are aware of when their abilities are Disabled, so it'd be pretty easy to tell.

[Elephant Parade]

@Fallacy: If a player with Contractual Niceness broke its condition, would they be informed that they had done so?

Not strictly, but players are aware of when their abilities are Disabled, so it'd be pretty easy to tell.

Thanks.

[Imp]

Well, protects aren’t limited to just town teams, whereas willfully foregoing the ability to perform a kill in a game which only anti-town entities seem to have one is going to get more towncred.

Equally so he says he’s protecting people,  but might be doing horrible or otherwise different things, knowing his scum partners aren’t hitting the person he’s acting on, or says he’s acting on.

Is Jim not town then?

In addition: I have a kill I haven't used and I'm town. I've hinted at this heavily.

Given the choice between voting BlackHeart or Secretdorf I would rather vote BlackHeart. I think it's likely one is scum at least. I would like to see more from BlackHeart. Hector and Jim I find a little suspicious, moreso than Max.

With deepest respect, Esteemed Jim Groovester does appear to have vote-stolen N1.

That worthy claims to have had the extreme misfortune to have decided to vote-steal N2 and N3, and managed to select the same target as the other apparent vote stealer both nights, and to have lost whatever contest that is used to tiebreak in such a situation, if any.

The Esteemed Jim Groovester is taking this very professionally, and interestingly doesn't appear interested or able in taking other actions at night.

An alternate explantion would require the informed cooperation of Esteemed Secretdorf, who Esteemed Jim Groovester doesn't, other than a grumble, appear to really mind having successfully twice stolen the vote-steal of.

This would potentially be an excellent cover for a partnered Esteemed Jim Groovester to potentially be doing other things.

I guess none of us have discussed this because of how wonderfully fierce Esteemed Jim Groovester is, right?  I'll do the unwise newbie thing again and say, shall we discuss this?

I also note:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Very much against lynching Secretdorf to satisfy Imp's tunneling.

Esteemed Jim Groovester, please help us understand why you selected Esteemed Knightwing64 for your vote theft target.

It seems odd that Esteemed Secretdorf would coincidentally choose the same target as you both nights.  Esteemed Secretdorf has claimed a reason for selecting Esteemed Knightwing64, and I greatly wonder what yours is.

Literally the same reason. Knightwing64's vote is better off in my hands than it is in Knightwing64's hands.

Knightwing64 is also suspect for getting banished at the same time as Crystalizedmire by (presumably) sofanthiel and whoever's responsible for ability duplication. That was probably not an accident but between Crystalizedmire and Knightwing64, Knightwing64 is probably less suspicious.

Why didn't you target Crystalizedmire then?

Don't worry about it.

Knightwing64 doesn't have a vote, and I don't have Knightwing64's vote, so both me and Secretdorf were randomized to Knightwing64, or we both targeted Knightwing64 because we have the same sense in who we want to steal votes from. I don't know about Secretdorf, but I targeted Knightwing64 during N3.

Secretdorf if you tried to fucking steal the same votes I tried to steal

we are going to have a problem

I'm disinclined to steal another person's vote, especially as we currently lack any obvscum targets but I can find someone to rob if a confirmable night action is instead considered more valuable.

Steal somebody's votes, but not votes I am going to steal.

How does everyone feel with the Esteemed Secretdorf having the only vote in the game?  And/or so many that they can instantly hammer by themself?  We're not there today.  Tomorrow?  D5?

I don't mind.

Don't ask me why, I've already explained I think he's town, live with the explanation.

Can we lynch sofanthiel now instead of indulging Imp on every topic?

Esteemed Jim Groovester, we're in hammer range if Esteemed Secretdorf acts.

Also, what do you think of Esteemed Secretdorf?  Would you shoot him today, if you had bullets and he voted you?

I literally just said what I think about Secretdorf.

My opinion about Secretdorf would probably change if he voted me so I might shoot him, especially if I couldn't see the rationale in his case, but the same would be true for a lot of players.

Esteemed Jim Groovester, what do you think of Esteemed hector13 and Esteemed Secretdorf?

I think hector13 is probably town. Secretdorf hasn't done anything that makes me think he's scummy. I think you're drinking too much of your own paranoid kool aid about Secretdorf and should probably focus on what you know and what is easy to grasp about the game state rather than dwelling on hypotheticals.

In case it isn't obvious I stole Sofanthiel's vote. Somehow I got 2.

NOOOOOOO I WANTED SOFANTHIEL'S VOTES

GO STEAL SOMEBODY ELSE'S VOTES

Spot checking on SecretDorf says town.

Related to why Jim has my vote? (What's "defensive" about vote theft?)

It's defensive in the same way a day kill is defensive.

Fallacy is still bitter about me (but not actually me) superkilling him and then claiming to be a mason (which wasn't my idea) so he baked some irony into my role and abilities.

And I believe he really firmly participated in the elimination of Esteemed EuchreJack, even with that worthy's compliance and all the meta analysis and other reasons not to eliminate that worthy involved.

people on the Jack wagon: would you be willing to vote Canadian with me if Web vanillized Jack?

I probably don't move off Jack but if I get the three invitees publicly, and I have, I have much less consternation if Day 1 ends with someone else.

I probably don't have a chance to spot check the cases for any other target than sofanthiel, who I think would be a decent choice.

Unwise newbie me says, "Hrm, do we see a second scum team?"

Please advise, beyond, "Only unwise folk attempt to ask about this-looks-scummy-of-Esteemed-Jim-Groovester".

[Imp]

@Fallacy: If a player with Contractual Niceness broke its condition, would they be informed that they had done so?

Not strictly, but players are aware of when their abilities are Disabled, so it'd be pretty easy to tell.

Thanks.

And I confirm I was not so informed.

[ToonyMan]

Footnote: These thoughts are specifically about players NOT being Mafia, not whether they're Town or not.

Likelihood of Being Mafia:

Most Likely Not Mafia
Imp - they're not
NQT - they would have had to pull some absolutely stupid double-kill gambit between themselves, Egan, Sofanthiel, and a fourth Merger/Double-Action player on N1, also Imp inspected them as Town on N3

Probably Not Mafia
Max - threw Egan (and Sofanthiel) under the bus
Canadian Kitten - threw Sofanthiel under the bus
Knightwing - got banished by Sofanthiel, probably not to protect them?
Crystalmire - got banished (twice now), probably not to protect them unless they're mafia with maybe BlackHeart? less sure than Knightwing about Not Mafia status
Jim - was very happy to lynch Egan on D2, don't think Jim got the skill to fake that
Secretdorf - hammered the shit out of Sofanthiel, could be to look good but...
Lenglon - proooobably not mafia, has been helping town more than hurting town but I can't think of a really strong reason why they couldn't be besides "nah"

Possible Mafia
Hector - I can't think of any reason why they couldn't be Mafia, but I don't have a reason why they would be either
Elephant Parade - I can't think of any reason why they couldn't be Mafia, but I don't have a reason why they would be either
BlackHeart - like Jim pointed out they may have banished Crystal for some reason? their Marked by Death feels like an independent thing to me though, but they could be Mafia still. I still really don't like how they didn't claim their role-block of Imp on D2, but waited until D3.


I'll need to look at Day 1 behavior between Egan and Sofanthiel with other players.


If anyone wants to chip in on my thoughts or have their own thoughts then feel free.

[hector13]

Well, to toot my own horn a little bit, I did start a wagon on Esteemed sofanthiel D1 that threw a lot of shade on them, and did suggest Esteemed sofanthiel would not be a sensible scum NK choice N1, though Esteemed Jim Groovester was the first one to bring that up.

I’m not sure about the banishments clearing Esteemed Knightwing64 and Esteemed Crystalizedmire though, but I am currently working on the idea the scum team did try to get towncred to Esteemed sofanthiel by making it appear as though they were the intended scumkill, so I can’t rule out they wouldn’t try it again, but that also enters WIFOM territory because obviously they saw how ineffective it was to do it the first time so maybe are trying to throw shade on townies instead.

I am typically lazy after D1 though.

[Imp]

Well, to toot my own horn a little bit, I did start a wagon on Esteemed sofanthiel D1 that threw a lot of shade on them, and did suggest Esteemed sofanthiel would not be a sensible scum NK choice N1, though Esteemed Jim Groovester was the first one to bring that up.

I’m not sure about the banishments clearing Esteemed Knightwing64 and Esteemed Crystalizedmire though, but I am currently working on the idea the scum team did try to get towncred to Esteemed sofanthiel by making it appear as though they were the intended scumkill, so I can’t rule out they wouldn’t try it again, but that also enters WIFOM territory because obviously they saw how ineffective it was to do it the first time so maybe are trying to throw shade on townies instead.

I am typically lazy after D1 though.

I am not sure who the other member(s) of the Mafia team are.  But looking at the level of play shown by Esteemed Egan_BW and Esteemed sofanthiel, I don't think I see genius guiding them.

I don't think Esteemed sofanthiel's death N1 was a likely ploy, based on what we have seen (based on what else it might achieve, from what we haven't seen roleflipped yet - that is very much on the table but unknown).

In my opinion, both Esteemed Egan_BW and Esteemed sofanthiel folded pretty easy starting D1.  That suggests they may not have had awesome leadership guiding them, or that leadership agreed that their deaths in this as a plan helped bury their successful third+ member(s), people who did want to play.  Maybe Esteemed Egan_BW would have wanted to play if more of us dived into the 'real game' that one wanted, the RtD, though even that isn't clear (and is a lot of work to do, while doing everything else, apparently not worth it?  Role in this game as a protest/request to go back to updating another game, 'cameo appearance' as the other agenda?)

So I lean towards coloring reads with that, or I'd like help seeing how my reads of these two fallen scum are unlikely to be correct or are actually wrong.

[notquitethere]

Elephant Parade, do you think it would be a good idea to set off your bomb on BHK?  (If you even can. )

[notquitethere]

Imp, you make some reasonable arguments about BHK— I just haven't seen enough to build any sense of trust. You're right that automatically being blocked is quite a downside, so there's bound to be some hidden upside for him.

[Elephant Parade]

Elephant Parade, do you think it would be a good idea to set off your bomb on BHK?  (If you even can. )

I think they would be a solid elimination today, so yes. As always, I'm not answering questions about the trigger.