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[Secretdorf]

Sofanthiel, what exactly do you know, from what Fallacy told you about the night? Do you have any ability that copies Canadian Kitten's abilities or anything like that?

[Imp]

Spoiler: Esteemed ToonyMan (click to show/hide)

The Esteemed hector13 did not claim roleblocking of me either before or after I stated my experiences of the night.

There's a few possibilities:

1. I am lying about how my role works and also role-blocked you (and Marked for Death which was immediately removed).
2. Hector is lying about how his role works and role-blocked you (and possibly Marked for Death too?)
3. A third person Marked you while a fourth person role-blocked you.
4. A third person Marked you and roleblocked you.

I think it's one of these. It's not 1 because I'm not lying. I don't think 2 is that likely. It's probably scenario 4.

Nods  Exploring ideas is a me-tell.

I'll note that 2 is not how I'd word that.  The Esteemed hector13 was a bit vague about some things.  They may have a town reason.  I'm in the trap if it's a trap, not if it's not.  My greatest fear is conversion (if I live I better stay town or never become anything anti-Town - for example the idea of me as SK-ally sickens town-me, I'd rather die first, but if I turned anything not anti-town I can still avoid hurting town and that's going to be fine if it happens), my second greatest fear is dying by kill of Serial Killer, Mafia, or Pirate alignments (as this helps some or all of the town's enemies, should it occur, that makes it a bad death for my side, that whole 'Villians Victorious' and the rest of 'the Esteemed Imp goes off' stuff.).

A few folks have called me really selfish and trying to avoid death.  I say, 'nah, you don't even know what altruism looks like, and that's okay.'  I actually have openly communicated the town-safer ways for me to die under a wide range of conditions, should enough folks or any personally empowered folk choose:  the lynch, a kill from anyone other than those 3 alignments, and any other means of death not from a kill no matter what alignment it comes from.  Most of the ways I can die are 'safer', they don't explicitly hurt town.  And if I become converted to anything anti-town, better control or kill me fast, townies, because me converted is probably bad for town, if it happens.

See, I didn't vote the Esteemed TricMagic because they were claiming town/SK.  I just tried to make very clear how the ways I could die would work:

... "As a whole we can decide what to do." You're not even bothering to scumhunt huh. I presented you a tray of coins and you ignored them to stare at imaginary jellyfish.

I don't know what your alignment is.  I also don't know what happens if there is an SK/town and if such a person kills me.  Town killing me should end my dreams, the traps don't go off.  SK killing me should set off the traps, the SK getting some problematic stuff and the 'enemies of my killer', again a paraphrase, but doesn't seem to mean town, get better help than my killer.  So I don't want to die to a SK, as that seems like it will make town enemies stronger.  Town/SK I don't have an answer for.  Based on the OP, it seems town and SK are opposing alignments.  I know SK is navy in my dreams.

So I say 'I don't think town/SK is possible.  You have to be either town or SK, or possibly something that can change alignment - except you imply you cannot, I think.  So either town or SK.  Or something else entirely.

As far as scumhunting, this conversation is.  It's going to be evaluated, if they're interested, by town, scum teams, any other serial killers, any other interested roles that exist.  It's not just town that kills town enemies, if you or anyone else is one.  This game is huge and I'm doing my best with what I have.

And as to this claim of his:

Ninja Jim Groovestar
Note that if you shoot me, will be annoyed. I'm pretty sure some town will be too when I flip. As will Toony.

Ninja. It's part of my town abilities. As compared to the SK ones.

... yeah.  When I saw that flip, some of my thoughts were, 'oh no.  That's one set of town-safer ways for me to die out of play, as well as the rest of the risk there.  I hope that doesn't hurt town.'  Not quite 'annoyed', but pensive.

I do not yet have any information that can help town today or any information that could help town in the coming days. So I'm gonna stay silent until somebody wants me to speak. As to why I did something that doesn't help town: I have no other choice.[/spoiler]

Okay.  I appreciate seeing you scumhunting, I'm happy to keep watching.  That's what I expect from you, and would love to see you continue to do.  You engaged is also a town tell, so the more engaged and useful and involved you are, the lower my fears of you will be.  To look town to me, you have to look useful to town in a way I can understand.  That is, a voice and consistent effort towards a wincon I can tolerate or embrace.  I like it, thanks!

[Jim Groovester]

Jim Groovester is the bandwagon because he took NQT's vote that he didn't mean to and somebody else's vote even though nobody's missing a vote except NQT. So ????????????
Maximum Spin is very town.
webadict is probably town.
ToonyMan is likely town, but also webadict's bitch, so if he votes the way webadict tells him to a lot of things should probably be fine
Spot checking on SecretDorf says town.
BHK was fine on Day 1 but his attack on webadict on Day 2 is not so great.
Crystalizedmire is obvscum or has Knightwing64esque naivete.
Knightwing64 is town because in the fifteen minutes he actually played Fallacy's Bring Your Own Role Edition 6 he displayed more fire than I am used to coming from Knightwing 64.
sofanthiel is big suspect because he doesn't know how he revived, and that would be very weird for a BYOR game since revival is usually not supposed to be a secret. But him suspecting EuchreJack's defenders of being scum and suspecting that EuchreJack is a death godfather is almost so unreasonable that only somebody who is town could believe it. But on balance I think sofanthiel is likelier scum than many other players in the game.
There's many reasons I could speculate where Egan_BW is town and could have performed a mafia kill but Egan_BW's absence in promoting his own case does not do him any favors.
The Canadian kitten reads town except for relatively low activity compared to others.

This is a read through of Day 2 so if I didn't mention a player they probably weren't particularly noteworthy but I probably consider you town. E.G., notquitethere, Lenglon, Imp. Elephant Parade.

ToonyMan didn't want an early lynch so I will unvote unvote unvote because I want to let ToonyMan cook even if I think webadict and Maximum Spin are cooking harder than him right now.

In fact, something I didn't think about but I'm pretty sure would work is that I could give Jim his day vig-shot back so he can shoot someone again tomorrow. As long as he still technically has that ability in his role.

My magazine is empty but the gun works fine.

Everyone, It's my choice, and maybe the only choice I get to make this game, how deep into dream I go, how much if any additional risk I choose to take.  But I still want to ask:

You should go as deep as FallacyofUrist lets you, because it's funner and funnier, and if the game goes off the rails, it's still his fault.

@Hector:
Web and Jim together would be extra saddening.

One of these days, ToonyMan, a moderator will see us on a scum team and won't think 'that's too goddamned stacked' and will let it ride.

Actually, I would like it if some willing individuals would claim their role submissions. Obviously, I'm a kind of flavor cop, and it wouldn't hurt to be able to interpret what I'm seeing better.

I am The terribly ironic role of somebody who only joined because other players asked him to.

Esteemed ToonyMan:

@Imp:
If Webadict is partners with someone it's with Max, not Jim. I don't really think all three are together.

Web and Max have been in sync the whole game, however I've noticed Jim is not always on the same page as Web or Max, so them talking in private is not likely. I guess Web and Max having a private chat is possible though.

Reassuring.  If one of the three isn't involved, that could get interesting later.  That whole wanting both Jim and Max into the Piratechat though, if Max and Jim already share a chat and/or trust each other greatly, interesting that both would want in very strongly.  Any ideas why they might?

I'm pretty sure most of it is because Max is a pretty fucking sweet dude and he thinks I'm a pretty fucking sweet dude too and sharing a chat together would be pretty fucking sweet. At least I hope that's the case.

There may have been other, mechanical reasons why Max and I would want to have been invited to EuchreJack's chat if we lived in the world where EuchreJack's chat was not quite as above board as he claimed.

The bomb had nothing to do with me, Esteemed notquitethere.

Esteemed Jim Groovester did claim stealing your vote though, but that would place him in the “could’ve killed” list, I think.

If I am killing my targets unbeknownst to me I am going to be ecstatic.

[Jim Groovester]

I am dee you enn arr kay so if you want to ask me something now is probably a pretty good time, but you'll probably get off the cuff shitposting where you may be expecting answers.

Does anybody else think FallacyofUrist should forgive me for executing one of the most fantastic scum gambits ever seen on this board? Because super killing a mason claim, and actual mason, and then making my own mason claim and getting away with it, even if none of it was my idea, is pretty legendary if I am being quite honest with you, family.

Anyways I am going to keep rubbing this in while I think it's still funny.

Thanks for reading my posts, Merry Christmas.

[ToonyMan]

@Jim:
I may or may not refill your gun tonight then.

I don't like how you just have this unexplained third vote, because it means someone is helping you out and not taking credit for it. This person should be able to figure out they gave you a vote, unless you're hiding something.


Secretdorf mentioned earlier that he expected more kills last night. I have to agree. The amount of roleblocks seems great, however it feels like more death should have happened.

I don't think this game will be so simple.

Assuming Egan is caught mafia it's a decent position: We will get to see what kind of mafia they are and go from there. I really don't want to believe this game is simply a single large mafia team, even with the low amount of actual kill action last night. I don't get that impression at all.

Assuming Egan is town we really need to hear their side of the story or it'll be like D1 again. It's important for them to participate.

[webadict]

Anyone that hasn't claimed yet is 10x more likely to be scum, all there is to it.  We can be done here because we aren't learning anything.

I'm inspecting notquitethere Tonight, but I'm pretty sure the Mafia are in BHK, Egan, sofa, NQT, and ToonyMan. 

Can we continue yet?  I will ask the same question:  "What are we learning?"  The scum have gone quiet, they do not participate, they won't claim anything, and people are trying to shift the vote away from Egan.  I get it:  Why trust Max or me or anyone, really, but delaying Day End for two pieces of (possibly unnecessary) information is not a good way to play.  Let's learn through dead scum.

@ToonyMan:  Vote Egan_BW, please.

[notquitethere]

Shooting wildly from the hit with my reads here, but let's goooo

Scum Team 1
Egan - outed scum, right? Tried to kill me but alleges he knew not what he did. Bullshit
Secretdorf - seems like on Egan's team trying to push an alt wagon. One of the missing claims, so probably did something heinous
Toony - pumping the brakes on the Egan wagon, and weird positioning on D1 is pinging my scumdar hard. Apparently blessed Imp, which is fine? Not the #1 scum target but someone to watch.

Scum Team 2
Sofanthiel - Really unconvincing claims today. The other scum want him dead, but not obviously a strong town to get rid of so most likely they picked him as rival scum
BHK - entirely background character. Unclaimed so was probably blocking, killing, bussing etc.
Lenglon - same as BHK

Maybe not scum, but not entirely on the level
Webadict - if lies were water, Wuba is the bigger fish. Came across more town-like today, to be fair to him
Max - Max suffers from "resting scum face", I can never trust him. But actually he's been okay today.
Jim - I've not heard enough from him to give me a good feeling yet
Canadian Kitten - What was Kitten doing to Sofanthiel?
CrystalisedMire - What was the Mire doing to Hector?

Probably town
Knightwing - righteous role-powered fury
Elephant Parade - forming suspicions and acting on them. Fallacy probably wouldn't give the scum team a bomb as well as the mafiakill. Probably.
Imp - Engaged and relatively forthcoming, if excessively wordy
Hector13 - Seems to be taking Imp's "keep me alive" seriously (yes, yes, the same could be said about Toony, but I dunno, Toony is pinging my gut this game)

Here's my attempt at an updated vote count.

Vote Count
------------------------
-> Egan_BW          --4-- Maximum Spin*, BlackHeartKabal*, webadict*, Lenglon*,
Crystalizedmire     --2-- Elephant Parade*, Imp*,
webadict            --1-- Knightwing64*,
Elephant Parade     --1-- Crystalizedmire*,
BlackHeartKabal     --0--
hector13            --0--
Imp                 --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Knightwing64        --0--
Lenglon             --0--
Maximum Spin        --0--
notquitethere       --0--
Secretdorf          --0--
sofanthiel          --2-- hector13*,  Secretdorf*
The Canadian kitten --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
No One              --0--

Not Voting          --5-- Egan_BW, hector13*, sofanthiel, The Canadian kitten, ToonyMan, Jim, Jim, Jim

9 to Hammer. Day ends on December 23, 2023 at 23:30 Central Standard Time (~50 hours remaining).

Web, bit of a waste if you can't already see I'm town from my posting, but sure, I don't mind. Same as last night, I'm not going to prevent you from inspecting me.

[notquitethere]

Take #2

Vote Count
------------------------
-> Egan_BW          --4-- Maximum Spin*, BlackHeartKabal*, webadict*, Lenglon*,
Crystalizedmire     --2-- Elephant Parade*, Imp*,
sofanthiel          --2-- hector13*,  Secretdorf*,
webadict            --1-- Knightwing64*,
Elephant Parade     --1-- Crystalizedmire*,
BlackHeartKabal     --0--
hector13            --0--
Imp                 --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Knightwing64        --0--
Lenglon             --0--
Maximum Spin        --0--
notquitethere       --0--
Secretdorf          --0--
The Canadian kitten --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
No One              --0--

Not Voting          --5 (or 7 if you count the extra Jim votes)-- Egan_BW, sofanthiel, The Canadian kitten, ToonyMan, Jim, Jim, Jim

9 to Hammer. Day ends on December 23, 2023 at 23:30 Central Standard Time (~50 hours remaining).

[Secretdorf]

Secretdorf - seems like on Egan's team trying to push an alt wagon. One of the missing claims, so probably did something heinous.

I'm not pushing for a Sofanthiel wagon:

I still have some doubts but I'm willing to trust webadict and go with an Egan elimination for now. It seems pretty obvious Sofanthiel is hiding things but that is a matter for another day.

Anyone that hasn't claimed yet is 10x more likely to be scum, all there is to it.  We can be done here because we aren't learning anything.

I guess I should go ahead and claim then: I did nothing last night. My role's more day oriented, and my night actions have to be used at the right time, or they may cause harm rather than good.

I agree with Web: I don't really see anything significant coming from the silent folks today, so let's go ahead with Egan_BW

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
-> Egan_BW          --5-- Maximum Spin*, Secretdorf*, BlackHeartKabal*, webadict*, Lenglon*,
Crystalizedmire     --2-- Elephant Parade*, Imp*,
Elephant Parade     --1-- Crystalizedmire*,
sofanthiel          --1-- hector13*,
webadict            --1-- Knightwing64*,
BlackHeartKabal     --0--
hector13            --0--
Imp                 --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Knightwing64        --0--
Lenglon             --0--
Maximum Spin        --0--
notquitethere       --0--
Secretdorf          --0--
The Canadian kitten --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
No One              --0--

Not Voting          --7-- Egan_BW, Jim Groovester*, Jim Groovester*, Jim Groovester*, sofanthiel, The Canadian kitten, ToonyMan,

9 to Hammer. Day ends on December 23, 2023 at 23:30 Central Standard Time (~38 hours remaining).

[Imp]

I wonder if everyone would consider a brief further delay to the hammer:

I have another question pending to Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist.  Once I get my answer, I want to discuss my own current plans for the night (which I can't make without that answer).

I've been thinking about the 'what if' of the Esteemed Egan_BW being my rough role equivalent on an anti-town team.  I'd love to say that's nonsense.  Now that I've had that good laugh, even in my own exact background there was more than one 'anti-town' though more limited variant of me - if we want to get very broad and loose with what that means - and every one of them is really bad news.

With that in mind, I'm extremely good with the idea of a anti-town me being lynched as soon as possible, wish it had happened D1 if such a player exists.

I don't know.  I just know, hey, the Esteemed Egan_BW sure pulled some dream-like stuff in the thread D1, from their earliest post... just like me.  And they dropped that after a bit... just like me.  And they didn't even post like that D2... just like me.

I'm not really sure. My power is based on building things out of words and I'm not really sure what those words do, so if I killed Sof then I apologize. Let me read up on the thread a bit more, I only skimmed.

I have been thinking about it and Secretdorf gives me scummy vibes I can't really explain. Might just be their username and avatar being shady to be honest.

So potentially eerily 'much like me', and barely communicating.  Honestly makes me want to study the heck out of this person, like I wanted to do, and did, with the Esteemed EuchreJack.  But this one's not discussing much, which leaves only roleflip to study.  I was slow to catch on, but this is maybe a really important roleflip to see, and possibly a rogue power to stop, which is really important and needs to happen early.

I want an answer to my current question before D2 ends, if you all allow me that time, and I probably want to say some stuff before end of D2 about N2, at least what I would be interested in others doing about/to/with me N2 and what I intend to do N2, based on what I know right now...

Which I already know will change for me end of D2 plus the Esteemed hector13 has suggested more will change for me around then too.  But I can provide my current N2 Xanatos Gambit ideas and make sure you worthies are in general agreement, or at least very aware of what I currently intend - I already expect my actual plans will have to go through Xanatos Speed Chess, but I can at least map out for you where I am starting from.

Because if I go rogue, you guys gotta control or kill me fast, an evil-me is probably really dangerous and that's why I'm now very interested in a 'could this be an evil twinsie of me?' Esteemed Egan_BW going down if that person doesn't communicate enough to at least soothe my mind that this isn't what I'm maybe seeing here.  That is something I hadn't really considered before now, and thank you geniuses for apparently considering that and being ready to deal with it.

[webadict]

I speak for only myself, but I would rather we end the Day.  Not least because I think we will spend all 36 of our remaining hours accomplishing nothing further, but because the only legitimate reason you should want any more time today is that you know another player is scum (and even then, you should have claimed it earlier.)  If you have an information right now, it is far too late to claim it reasonably.  Egan_BW is scum.  The sooner we see their role, the sooner we can figure out what happened.

If you're holding information, it better be useful Tomorrow.

[Lenglon]

Imp: Remember that scum are here too. Any night action plans you make should be kept to yourself so ghe scum can't work around them.
There is nothing to discuss at this point. We know who to lynch today, and I and probably most everyone here are all busy because of the season. We can just hammer att imo.
NQT / Toony: I get why you dislike me being quiet here, I don't have significant info and figured holding it back would motivate scum to be honest in their claims. I tracked Hector13, confirming he visited Imp. This info proved fucking worthless since not only did Imp not die but Hector's action was self-confirming. So it was better to bluff and make scum worry it was about themselves than to share useless info with everyone. I'll likely hold back on later days as well for similar reasons if I find nothing of immediate value. If this makes you worry then track / inspect me as you please, I'm not a miller and don't have a kill. I'll claim my results immediately tomorrow though, I already know what my action tonight will be and it should be very informative no matter the result.

[Imp]

I still don't have my answer.  Based on not having the answer:

I currently don't plan on doing anything important tonight, but that could flip on a dime.  I currently can't do much at night, but I asked about a what if involving targeting myself, which actually might be slightly useful.  With end of day I might find I have some specific other target, because stuff changes for me maybe a lot.

I still would love protection, particularly from conversion risk.

Imp: Remember that scum are here too. Any night action plans you make should be kept to yourself so ghe scum can't work around them.

Yeah, but then town can't plan around them either.

[webadict]

Listen to Lenglon.

The reason I'm claiming so much is so that the scum focus on me.  They HAVE to deal with me, and I could very well be lying.  I am acting as a shield.  Maybe they kill me.  Maybe they block me.  They still waste their resources on me, and not on anyone else.

I'm also seeing if claiming your Role or Action names do anything.  It's better to test that out early, and it's not like it matters to me if I have my entire role or not.

But, we're fine as is.