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[webadict]

He could have asked Jim to kill him instead of publicly requesting to be modkilled.

Not sure it has to be explained that he asked for death early on, but I was the one that defended him.  You can't really hold that against him that he had hope that people might understand.

[sofanthiel]

Not happening.  Please choose someone else.

I was going to (my response even had a section about the seeming pointlessness of staying on Max), but after more careful deliberation and a HUMAN nap, I'm not so sure it's such a blunder anymore.

You voted him several times without changing votes yet you never explained why. Why?

I initially aspired to have a mini-wagon constructed to take the Spin for a stress spin test.  That did, kind of, happen, but the band was too mini.  You were in it at the beginning, too!  It was quickly disbanded; however, maybe if I simply keep at it, some of you will join my effort.  As I'm analyzing Max's posts, I'm finding the whole "I'm an all-powerful god" concept less and less believable.

Given that EuchreJack seems committed to inviting me to his chat, let me just precommit to this: If my alignment changes at any future point, I will loudly announce this and then quit playing. If this is in some way related to the Pirate Chat I will also confirm everyone who is in it.

Don't your objectives change with alignment?  I distinctly remember how you specifically said that your sole overall strategy was winning and nothing else.  Announcing you've become a mafiaoso is not something a person who cares about emerging victorious would do, but declaring the threat of such an announcement... if that isn't an attempt at appealing to town (whether you get pirated in the future or already are) AND keeping EJ around, I don't know what is.

There, now we don't have to lynch him.

Curious indeed...  I may have a proposal for another current-pirate candidate.  Actually, you being part of the crew would explain the lack of high-seas-themed flavor text!

Look, tell me what you're trying to do, because otherwise, if you think you're going to use an action on me... you're not.

Oh, so now actions don't work on you either?  And I recall you saying that you can also steal abilities.  Is there anything you can't do?  Most of the stuff you claim really reads like bluffing of the highest caliber.  As to what exactly my plan is, you'll see!  Hey, mayhaps I'm bluffing too?
Why worry in the first place?  You can't be killed, after all, haha!

[webadict]

Not happening.  Please choose someone else.

I was going to (my response even had a section about the seeming pointlessness of staying on Max), but after more careful deliberation and a HUMAN nap, I'm not so sure it's such a blunder anymore.

No, I don't think you understand that Maximum Spin isn't going to be voted by anyone else, and you are thus not using your vote.  That's not a good thing unless you're concerned that all other viable vote targets are Town, but you'd need to convince someone else of that.

[Lenglon]

sofanthiel: I will not be voting Max today, and I don't feel like explaining why.

just figured I might as well head that off considering what Web just said to you.

[Maximum Spin]

Don't your objectives change with alignment?

Yep, but in this case I'm voluntarily promising to throw the game if that happens, because I do not want to play as a pirate. You may not believe that I would do that, but I 100% would because I'm already drained with this game. If EuchreJack doesn't believe I would, he's an idiot.

As to the rest of your poorly-thought-out concerns, it's okay, you wouldn't know, but anyone who's played a few BYORs with me before should know what I'm getting at. Everything I said about things that can and can't happen to me was completely true. Although I never said I can steal abilities, you weirdo.

[EuchreJack]

Well, no response on the mod kill request. I'll switch to self-voting. Getting voted out Day 1 is marginally better for Town, if we believe town is more likely to vote out town than scum. Personally, I think my removal means scum might get hit, and allows attention to go on them, but we play the cards we're dealt.
EuchreJack

[sofanthiel]

I never said I can steal abilities, you weirdo.

Steal was the wrong term; I meant copy, as mentioned here:

I can copy your ability if I can target your target. If you feel it would be safe to tell me your target, then I'll do that.

No, I don't think you understand that Maximum Spin isn't going to be voted by anyone else

webadict, what do you actually think about my analysis?  Why is it, as you say, not compelling enough to convince even a single player?

[EuchreJack]

I thought we already know that there are multiple sumteams

A few of us (Me, Imp, Egan) are aware of a red team called "Pirate", which would be a mafia alignment.

Jack is also aware of this team, and like me, has claimed they are a miller of this alignment. However, I'm trying to see their behavior as town and it is difficult.

To clarify, if I believe you, Imp, and Egan, then you all got "PIRATE" whereas I got "PIRATE".
It is a perfectly reasonable mistake for any mod running a game with 18 players and 18 roles to make.

So I was never told that Pirate was a scum faction. But then our Esteemed GM Fallacy posts the following:

FallacyofUrist I wish to ask you here:  Pirates, if pirates exist or come to exist, would they be anti-town?

In the opening post, I state that no alignments outside of the listed ones may exist. Pirates are not explicitly listed as an alignment. However...

(Very Rare, Requires Large Game) The other scumteam may take up any villainous-sounding factional name. They share the same rules and win condition as the Mafia - and yes, they will need to fight the Mafia in order to achieve their win condition, and vice versa, because it turns out this town isn't big enough for two groups of murderers.

The only way for Pirate to be an alignment would be for it to be a scumteam alignment.

Frankly, I think he owes me a quick death and flip...

[EuchreJack]

I thought we already know that there are multiple sumteams

This is suspicious. I don't know that.
For all I know, the Pirate faction doesn't exist, but is rather just a villainous inspection.
Arr, you be a Pirate?

[sofanthiel]

Wait, so Fallacy confirmed that all pirates are 100% antagonists?!

EuchreJack

[Lenglon]

sighs
Jack: the wagon on you isn't as big or as complete as you think it is. Please back down from from the self-voting and asking for a modkill.
"Ey you gotta chill. Tilting like that helps nobody."

[Imp]

It also is fully possible that Pirates don't actually exist as an alignment and Egan/Imp only have references to the inspection result.

You are making a case on the source of the multiple scumteams info in the first place, you especially shouldn't be certain of that.

Nice.  So, I will further reveal now, which I had already referenced but in a way maybe too confusing to catch (whoops, sorry) that the ability I have, that I was told was shown to existing-at-start scum teams does not say anything about those who inspect as Pirate.

Being careful not to quote, it has to do with killing and alignments of Serial Killer, Pirate, Mafia.

Scum-from-start would know that, might be smart enough to hide they know that.

I also realized, scum may really want me lynched or otherwise safely disposed of.  I thought it might be just a distraction to them, but I'm actually maybe a real problem for them.

If someone is redirected to me and it's a kill, 'imp goes off' if that killer is serial killer, Pirate, or Mafia alignments.  This is going to benefit the killer, as revealed to the existing-at-start scum team(s) if any!!! and I was not told any names of teams that may or may not have existed at the start!! and also, as not revealed, as far as I know, except in my role PM, that the benefit becomes accursed and the enemies of my enemy get better help.

Before town rushes to redirect kills to me - I think this is also maybe bad for town, because I think it means the other anti-town factions, the ones lucky enough not to kill me, benefit, and that's probably not a net benefit for town.

However, if we have both Pirates and Mafia in play, they probably would like to redirect the other team's kill to me, or a serial killer's, if they think they can.

More likely, they want me safely (to them) dead.  They wanna win - they do not want to kill me, they see the ability name, Villians Victorious (not a quote) and again, it's not my killer that is the victorious-sided villian.  They do not want to be redirected to me, because that hurts them and strengthens other enemies if they have any.

That may not explain CrystalizeMire's interest, reactions, and word choices.  But I do wonder.  Because while I live, scum that existed from the start have to consider if they might accidentally kill me.

There, now we don't have to lynch him.

Curious indeed...  I may have a proposal for another current-pirate candidate.  Actually, you being part of the crew would explain the lack of high-seas-themed flavor text!

Oooh!

While mine is fear and worry only, I have already stated a concern about that.

If consent matters, watch Max and Elephant Parade for probable pirate converts because they along with Webadict said yes.

Also: Who wants to be a pirate?

Me, but depending on what that entails, you might regret inducting me into your crew.

Wasn't directed to EuchreJack, but said very soon after EuchreJack again offered to recruit and nobody else was offering:

I'd say you could recruit me, but it would be a bad idea.

I have no facts, and people already reacted and refuted.  Just making sure connections are seen so they can be followed up on later if concern still exists for anyone alive at the time.

But, sofanthiel, really.  What are your thoughts about the rest of the game and its events?  Why do you not seem concerned about anyone besides Maximum Spin?

And stepping in here to save time:

perhaps you’d like to join us and follow the advice Esteemed Lenglon and I gave Esteemed The Canadian kitten?

While I would usually simply read through your post history, I doubt that will be a viable option for me here.  I hope you don't mind repeating said piece of advice, thank you very much.

Esteemed The Canadian kitten

You’re here, the idea isn’t to clear yourself (necessarily) but engage more with the game. 18 players is a lot, consider the following, though you’ve already answered one part:

Which player(s) do you consider to be most likely to be Town, and why?

Which player(s) do you consider to be most likely to be scum, and why?

Which player(s) do you most want more information from, and how are you going to go about doing that? My advice would be to pick one or two of them, vote them, ask them questions, and try to tie them down in your mind as town or scum.

You don’t need to solve the entire game on D1, but trying to solve one or two players is a good start.

[Imp]

I thought we already know that there are multiple sumteams

This is suspicious. I don't know that.
For all I know, the Pirate faction doesn't exist, but is rather just a villainous inspection.
Arr, you be a Pirate?

Wait, so Fallacy confirmed that all pirates are 100% antagonists?!

EuchreJack

No, Fallacy did not do so.

If Pirate, as an alignment, exists, then that alignment is anti-town.

If a pirate aligned player kills me, 'imp goes off'.  It's in my ability that got shown to all existing-at-start scum teams, they know that and so do I.

What I don't know is if there are any Pirate alignment players, or could be in the future.

Let's read how sketchy Fallacy worded the existence of pirates.

[Imp]

I don't think a hammer helps us.

This is my current understanding, we're 3 from hammer on EuchreJack, asking folks not to finish that hammer until we discuss more

Vote Count
------------------------
-> EuchreJack       --6-- ToonyMan*, Egan_BW*, notquitethere*, BlackHeartKabal* EuchreJack, sofanthiel*,
Imp                 --4-- Elephant Parade*, Maximum Spin*, Crystalizedmire*, The Canadian kitten
sofanthiel          --3-- hector13*, Imp*, Secretdorf*
The Canadian kitten --2-- Lenglon*, webadict*,
Egan_BW             --1-- Jim Groovester*,
Crystalizedmire     --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Maximum Spin        --1--
Knightwing64        --0--
BlackHeartKabal     --0--
Elephant Parade     --0--
hector13            --0--
Lenglon             --0--
notquitethere       --0--
Secretdorf          --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
TricMagic           --0--
webadict            --0--
No One              --0--

9 to hammer

I'm sorry, suffering EuchreJack, but maybe we can repair?  What about Web's scrub?  What about other ideas, that can maybe even build a new role for you?  I am potentially quite the dreamer, with consent, and I think I'm here to help one or more people.  Are you one of the ones meant to guide my dreams?

Confirming I don't know what EuchreJack's alignment is, and I am not consenting to anything yet.

[webadict]

No, I don't think you understand that Maximum Spin isn't going to be voted by anyone else

webadict, what do you actually think about my analysis?  Why is it, as you say, not compelling enough to convince even a single player?

Well, first because I think that Maximum Spin tends to be informative, regardless of whether he's Town or scum, so that automatically makes him a really difficult target to go after and makes your case need to be much clearer.  The second us that I'm actually not sure what your case is.  Is it that he's claimed having a lot of Abilities?  That's not a compelling argument, since the intended purpose of claiming Actions on Day 1 is to confuse the scum, but also to give clearance to other players.

Consider that I have claimed a Super Inspect, as well as some amount of Ability Immunity.  I also believe that I appear very Town right now.  This makes me a prime target for scum kills, brainwashing, roleblocks, but also protects and watches.  I want the scum to target me, but they are also unsure of what I have said that is true or not true.  And the scum might very well want to target me, as well.  Max is doing a bit of the same thing.  Having two targets be extremely powerful is good, since either of those targets might have a protect to use on the other.