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[Lenglon]

Egan: generic policy-vote for inactivity.

Perseus: I feel like you aren't fully engaged with scumhunting at the moment. What's your top 3 scum right now and why?

4mask: I think I'm not thinking objectively and want an outside opinion. What is your read of Jack right now? Why?

[4maskwolf]

Unfortunately my meta read on Jack is super limited for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being my relative inactivity during the time period Jack has been an active player. So this early on my read on a decent chunk of the playerbase is ":shrug: I'll get to that when I have time." Which will probably be tomorrow, since I'm busy today.

[4maskwolf]

What little I can say is that, as I understand it, Jack always looks kinda scummy if you're reading him from the standard suite of wolf tells, so you have to develop a more nuanced meta read if you want to get a solid D1 read on him.

[hector13]

@Hector: How did you conclude Lenglon was Third Party? I mean, I certainly have my theory, but how would you explain/paraphrase it?

You asked them to say “I am Good” and they said “I am not Evil”, which is not the same thing, and is basically saying “I am third-party”. That bothers me for a number of reasons I might cover later depending on what else was posted, but remind me if I don’t because it’s semi-important.

And fine, since it seems there's no point in holding this back at this point, I am Neutral. My wincon is identical to the Good wincon, but Evil can win ( and I lose) while I'm still alive. I initially thought I wouldn't be the only Neutral like this, and that I needed to meatshield for our Good players, treating them as VIPs.

Didn’t think I’d make it two posts and have to explain anyway.

People earlier were suggesting Lenglon might be a survivor, which means her presence is bad for town which gets worse the longer the game goes because their goal is to survive, which doesn’t necessarily mean winning with town. Town also can’t use the elimination to get rid of it because survivors aren’t anti-town so it would be a waste, so I hope that town have a night kill they can use to deal with her.

I don’t think it would be outside possibility that a survivor might fakeclaim all of this, but it still presents the problems as above.

Of course, all this doesn’t really matter if she is indeed just lying scum, but why would scum draw so much attention to themselves with such a bold claim as being unable to lie, then basically claim something that is best dealt with in the night in a power heavy game?

*reads ahead*

Then be a dick when someone wants to test their claims in a deduction game.

People who have some idea of Lenglon’s meta: is she prone to getting this bent out of shape as either alignment?

Like… what NQT is doing to deal with Lenglon’s claims is not unreasonable, even if she’s covered it before.

Eurgh. I’ll do more later, people being asshats really removes my motivation for playing the game.

[webadict]

Egan_BW has been prodded.

Also, let's resort to executing each other before name-calling, thank you.

[Lenglon]

waaaahhhhhhhh Lenglon didn't fullclaim in her first post on day 1 waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

Yeah, no. I'm not putting up with this anymore.

I have said:

Jack: I should not answer that. Good wins if all Evil players are removed from the game, and if at least one Good player is alive. This means there is a limited pool of Good players here, and Evils will want to kill Good players and avoid killing non-Good players. As such, I should not say if I am Good. What I can say and already have said is that I am not Evil.

Jack: Why are you attempting to learn who is Good and who is not, instead of attempting to learn who is Evil and who is not?

Repeatedly:

Vector: Because it is more important to me to both investigate Knightwing and help him express himself than it is to attempt to apply pressure on Jack about a topic that he has avoided engaging with and nobody else has called him on despite me pointing it out, which likely means that nobody else finds the argument convincing, and that I should reconsider how strong of evidence it actually is.

Toony: I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are correct, and that it wasn't a concern after all, but I did not know that at the time, and thought that the Good players might only be a sub-faction of town, which would require protection. At the time of Jack's question, they were lacking the same information I was, and so I remain concerned about their questioning, but it is currently only a cause for mild suspicion, as I said to Knightwing earlier.

Why:

And fine, since it seems there's no point in holding this back at this point, I am Neutral. My wincon is identical to the Good wincon, but Evil can win ( and I lose) while I'm still alive. I initially thought I wouldn't be the only Neutral like this, and that I needed to meatshield for our Good players, treating them as VIPs.

I held back the alignment information.


I have said:

Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.

Repeatedly:

Jack: I should not answer that. Good wins if all Evil players are removed from the game, and if at least one Good player is alive. This means there is a limited pool of Good players here, and Evils will want to kill Good players and avoid killing non-Good players. As such, I should not say if I am Good. What I can say and already have said is that I am not Evil.

That:

NQT / Perseus: my role is not on your list of previous roles. I believe you would consider me either town or town-ally if you had access to my role pm.

I:

Jack: As far as I know, I can only win if Good wins. I don't see what point there is in demanding that I make any other statements beyond that, since as I see it that statement would have to be a lie for me to be harmful, and if you are assuming that I am violating my prohibition against lying, then what point is there in making me say things?

Only:

NQT: I win when all Evil players are removed from the game, and there is at least one Good player alive. You can decide which of your catagories that is for yourself. Also, I find your questions indicative that you aren't reading the thread.

Win:

Your extreme caginess is ringing alarm bells. Just answer me one question, yes or no. No prevaricating, no saying I need to read the thread. That's all coming across as deflection. Do you have an anti-town wincon?

NQT: No I do not you fucking idiot.

with town.


Quit it with this "she's a survivor!" business. The entire case is self-contradictory. You're assuming that I might be third-party because I initially claimed to be Not Evil instead of claiming to be Good, and you decided that I must have been doing that to avoid lying. Then when I do explicitly claim exactly what my wincon is you assume that I'm lying about it. It's absurd and I'm having trouble understanding how anyone can seriously be simultaneously holding two contradictory positions. You tell me if you think I'm lying or not. If you think I'm lying then just make your case for why I'm an Evil already. If you don't think I'm lying then quit it with this "survivor" business. I am not a survivor. get over it already.

making me retread the same ground for the 15th time is not productive. stop it.

[4maskwolf]

Supernatural has prescedent for town-aligned third parties so I'm not immediately extra skeptical of Leng's claim.

Even if it didn't this is webadict supernatural  so we couldn't rule it out but the fact that it does helps.

[notquitethere]

Pfp

4mask, thanks for the clarification

Hector, being a bit aggro is NAI. One big thing in Lenglon's favour is she stuck her neck out unnecessarily. I don't see a setup where a member of a scum team makes her play.

Toony, most of your posting is distant commentary. Where's the beefing? I'm getting too much of a Devil aura from you. Who do you see making a case on by day's end?

Tric, I'm not sure about your reasoning. Max is too active and Jack is too passive? Is this read based on your expectations from other games?

[4maskwolf]

Hector, being a bit aggro is NAI. One big thing in Lenglon's favour is she stuck her neck out unnecessarily. I don't see a setup where a member of a scum team makes her play.

“I never thought third parties would abuse MY trust!” complains man who voted for the Third Parties Betraying Trust Party.

Jokes aside you saying that gave me deja vu to the last suoernatural.

[ToonyMan]

@4mask:

Toonyman: For someone who has me as a locked neutral due to respecting my scumplay, I'm surprised you haven't tried too hard to dig to find my alignment.

I mean, I was going to investigate you or NQT tonight but I could probably be more actively hounding players.

Oops I ruined the surprise.

@NQT:

Toony, most of your posting is distant commentary. Where's the beefing? I'm getting too much of a Devil aura from you. Who do you see making a case on by day's end?

I don't really hate anybody but Tric and Hector right now. I like the vote though since Jack has pointed it out too and it's a reasonable vote.

Vector's suspicion of Knightwing/Jack is...weird. Egan hasn't posted. I could argue with Max about something since Egan is still away.

I think Hector's pursuit of Lenglon is some politically correct word for slow in the brain, but I don't know if they hold malicious intent. I'm suspicious of Tric for not drawing attention to themselves, although maybe that's hypocritical.

Lenglon is absolutely correct they've incessantly said they're a town-ally, and I'm baffled players can't read posts and just blindly shout what they want to hear. Maybe because I haven't tunneled on anybody I can see more clearly, food for thought to players reading this.

I would need strong convincing that Jack/Knightwing/Lenglon are Evil and really don't feel like Lenglon should be the focus of discussion while actual Evil avoids scrutiny.

So yeah, the fire is small but I expect it to grow.

@Max:
Who do you think is more suspicious, 4mask or NQT?

What's the deal with Tric? I think they're wrong about everything, but is there a sinisterness to it? I'm currently leaning yes.

[hector13]

@Lenglon: You don’t have to retread the same ground, I’m thinking out loud so people - who have been questioning me about how I concluded one thing and not another - can understand my thought process. That process involves figuring out whether or not you’re lying, so yeah, I present my process on both positions. Due diligence, as NQT suggested.

Further, I have no interest in really interacting with you because I’ve already said I completely distrust you from a game perspective, and personally you were being*deep breath* deeply unpleasant for no real reason.

From my perspective your slot has been solved, I’m letting people know what I think about it, why I think that, and what I hope to happen as a result of that, as I was reading the thread from my last post.

I would have done more, but I have better things to do with my time than reading you treating people like shit for no reason in an inconsequential game of deduction and manipulation. Like tearing out my fingernails, or staring into the sun, or any number of other more pleasant things.

PPE: whatever more shit to read that I can’t be fucked with right now

[ToonyMan]

I've also forgotten Persus13 existed, but do remember liking their query towards Tric here:

I don't have a preference. It's the fact you're setting up a chain of mislynches that bothers me. Scum can't play passive with so many people, so holding back won't work for them. It's enough of a deviation for me to take notice of it.

How do you know they're mislynches?

[ToonyMan]

How to catch Evil:

Bad Votes:
Jack - not Evil, they've been like a frantic maniac
Knightwing - not Evil, I feel like he's really trying
Lenglon - not Evil, they've claimed something they didn't have to, I know this is a terrible example but 4mask was in-fact third-party on D1 of S10 even if they were lying about exactly what. I think Lenglon is really crying their heart out here though and believe them strongly

Probably Bad Votes:
NQT - I read them town but could be fooling me. I'm more confident NQT is town than 4mask just from their behavior.
4mask - I read them town but they could be fooling me
Jim - I think he's town based on his goofy mannerisms, but it's personal bias and he could still be Evil, would need convincing

Maybe Votes:
Hector - my gut says they're town but I have no strong reasoning
Max - similar to Hector, my instincts say they're town but I have no strong reasoning. I think their progression with Knightwing looks natural so that's townpoints
Persus - have no read, I should probably check that huh
Vector - could be town but need to see more of them
Egan - hasn't posted
TricMagic - their lynchpool of Max/Jack/Toony is bafflingly bad, which I would probably town read, but they're surprisingly rationally wrong case on Max is concerning. I know it's completely off-base but I could actually understand what he was saying.

I think I want to hear more from Persus, Vector, Egan, and Tric. Those four. Step forward and share.

[Persus13]

Perseus: I feel like you aren't fully engaged with scumhunting at the moment. What's your top 3 scum right now and why?

I'd shoot Tric, NQT, and 4maskwolf right now.

Tric's comment about mislynches was a bit of a red flag. It can be easily explained away. I've certainly seen town make similar comments, but his lack of response (yet, its only been a few hours) means its still a red flag for now.

NQT's interactions so far have been fine on their own but the combo of his Max, Lenglon, and 4maskwolf interactions have me slightly leery of rolefishing. I'm used to NQT being more focused on the day-game interactions D1, but to be fair that might just be an older meta and new NQT is different.

4maskwolf seems too busy with real world stuff, which I get, but that has the by-product of him being under the radar, and he's probably the person I have the highest opinion of their scum game here.

So a lot of nothing at present. Hector, Toony, and Jim are playing strong so far, so most likely town at this stage. You seem to be the D1 claim/not-claim that wastes people's time on nothing of the game. EuchreJack, Knightwing and Max I don't know super well, so haven't developed a strong read on them yet. Vector and Egan I forgot were in the game.

Vector: Has your read on Jack changed in the last 18 hours or so? You still recovering from COVID?

Egan:What's your take on the game so far?

[Egan_BW]

I have successfully skipped RVS by neither participating in nor reading it.

1: I require sleep and work.
2: Both of these activities preclude computer or phone time.
3: I've missed 150 posts, which is too many of posts.
Conclusion:

Toony + Lenglon: Explain the gamestate to me or I day-vig you.

Max has been skum too many times recently. He's probably hacking random.org. Sus.
If not him, one of the veterans who haven't played is a good call. Too rusty, can't help town~