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[notquitethere]

Hey! Ho!
Oh don't you go
All supernatural on me

I love this game setup. I'm trying to dig through my old notes from Mephansteras' Supernatural. Dunno how much Webadict will have played with the basic roles (probably a fair bit). But doesn't help to be armed with some Information.

Useful Info

Spoiler: Previous Compositions (click to show/hide)

1- 13 players: 3 werewolves, 2 third parties (Devil/Demon), 8 town
2- 12 players: 3 cult killers, 1 third party (Ghoul), 8 town (one revived as Demon)
3- 13 players: 2 vampire cultists, 2 third parties (Wererat, Necromancer), 9 town
4- 14 players: 2 vampire cultists, 2 third parties (Guardian Angel, Devil), 10 town (1 revived as demon)
5- 14 players: 3 werewolves inc priest, 1 third party (wererat), 10 town (1 revived as lone vampire)
6- 11 players: 3 cultists inc converter, 0 third party, 8 town
7- 13 players: 1 dark magus, 2 third party (Werebear SK, Necromancer), 10 town
8- 14 players: 3 cult killers, 2 third party (Guardian Angel, Necromancer), 9 town
9- 9 players: 2 cult killers, 2 third party (Devil, Ghoul), 5 town
10- 13 players: 1 Dark Magus, 2 third party (Demon, Devil), 10 town

Spoiler: Anti-Town Factions (click to show/hide)

Possible Non-Town Factions
OK so I have collated the roles from all the old games in a spreadsheet (I'm probably re-doing work that already exists, but I couldn't see it anywhere). There's a bunch of possibilities to work through but here's a comprehensive overview of all the possible non-town roles. I've included roles from the Bastard as we can't rule them out as possibilities (Meph included them in the OP after all): the bastard nature of that game was just that there were 3 competing scum teams and no town.

Scum Teams

Werewolves - 3/11 previous games

Werewolves act as a normal mafia team. They can also have werewolf specific roles, but not always and never yet exclusively:

Werewolf Leader - Kills a random non-werewolf when lynched
Werewolf Flanker - When aiding the nightkill, it makes the kill unblockable.

Cult - 4/11 previous games

Cults can either be charismatic cults (i.e. what we usually mean by the term "cult" in mafia) but they can also be ritual killers and act like a regular mafia team with a kill power. Cultist have normal town roles as well, but depending which kind of cult, they'll also may have one of the following:

Charismatic Cultist - Converts people into the cult
Cult Leader - Appears as town on inspections

We've never seen both appear in the same game and while I suppose I wouldn't rule it out absolutely, it wouldn't match the normal setting info as both are leader-type roles.

Vampires - 2/11 previous games

Vampires are cultists, but unlike the regular cult, their converts become Vampire Slaves and lose their prior roles. Vampires can have town roles, though in both full-Vampire teams so far they've had a Vampire Lord. The specific vamps are:

- Vampire Lord: Converts town players into Vampire Slaves
- Vampire Slave: Has no powers

See below for the third party "lone vampire" variant.

Dark Magus - 1/11 previous games

A one man scum team with a mafiakill and a bunch of one shots. They resurrect automatically once per game.

Magic Brotherhood - 1/11 previous games

Magic-themed town roles (Witch, Wizard, Fortune teller). Can mark a hex on one night and then invoke that hex on another to kill. This team has only appeared in the semi-bastard.

Templars - 1/11 previous games

A scum team with a joint block any of them can use. Can have normal town roles (though templar themed, so it was Sage and Knight). This team has only appeared in the semi-bastard.

Can have the powerful specialist role:
- Veteran Templar: immune to conversion, can night-kill or protect

Third Party

Always anti-town

Demon: A serial killer immune to blocks and redirect
Ghoul: Serial killer. Can eat the dead instead of performing the kill: if they do then their next kill is unstoppable.
Necromancer: Serial killer. Raises a dead player as a Zombie who can then perform the kills.
Zombie
Werebear Serial Killer: unlike the town werebear, they have an active kill power, not a reflexive one
[X] Serial Killer: As we've seen an existing roles (werebear, necromancer) be repurposed as a serial killer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see this happen again. Could even have a wererat serial killer.


Anti-town except in edge cases
Devil: Leaves the game with a win if they gather 3 souls. They can offer a player a powerful one-shot each night and if that player accepts they get the souls. When the Devil wins, the players who have traded their souls go to hell with the Devil.

Survivors
Lone Vampire: Survivor. Can feed on anyone, roleblocking them, and if they feed on the same person twice in a row, that player dies.
Wererat: Survivor, no powers. Sucks to be them.

Town Allies
Guardian Angel: Town Ally - wins so long as a town player is alive at the end of the game, leaves town if they fail. Has four different kinds of protection they can use on their target (vs. death, conversion etc.)


Additionally:

- Scum priests can resurrect town into their ranks (this happened in Supernatural 5 with a werewolf priest)
- Resurrections can go wrong and create third party survivors, like Demons and Lone Vampires


Quick Note on Town Roles

- In some games there is the "Townsperson" role, which is just vanilla townie.
- The monster hunter is usually a hunter of a specific monster (vampire or werewolf) and they can inspect players to see if they are that monster (+ they have a kill). In Supernatural 8 there was a Vampire Hunter in a game without any vampires. As such, their inspect would never be positive.
- Sometimes there's a Lone Witch, so instead of being a mason, they're a watcher

All to say, there's 13 players, so we can expect 3-5 anti-town players.

(I'll start playing in earnest in my next post.)

[Persus13]

Hello, it feels like ages since I've played mafia. Ordinarily in Supernatural's I try and figure out info from previous games, but given Web's running this and not Meph I'll need to make sure I don't assume too much. I still recall the game with 5 SKs and no mafia team Web.

In the past the main scumteams I recall were flavored as lycanthropes, vampires, mages, and cultists of some kind. Given that the flavor of this game is that we're cultists (Children of the Elder and all that), I'm a little doubtful that we'll get cultists as the bad guy team, but we haven't seen the kill flavor yet. Am I forgetting a game here?

Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.

Hmm, interesting. There's one, maybe two roles on the town list I could see having the Monster tag, so its possible you're that, but still hmm.

Toony:

Which I strongly recommend Tric do as town here, last Supernatural they claimed Knight on D1 and it was terrible.

Oh god I'd blocked that out of my memory. Given that you've played at least 7 out of the 10 regular Supernatural games, what's your favorite moment from those, and what's a mistake you hope not to repeat for this game?

PPE: And NQT ninjas me with better analysis as usual. Dangit.

[4maskwolf]

Pressure vote onto TricMagic.  He hasn't said his role yet, so must be scum.

Tric has stayed quiet about their role as town before.

Which I strongly recommend Tric do as town here, last Supernatural they claimed Knight on D1 and it was terrible.

My actions also have monster tags. I'm Good, though I can't be inspected.

I have a power that implies there's some kind of evil witch.

Got it.

To be fair tric was pressured into claiming because he implied he was SK Werebear II: Electric Boogaloo.

[hector13]

Aww nobody chose entrance music (blue) meanies.

Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.

There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.

Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.

Anyway, I’m mostly discomfited by the wording of the claim. “Should not lie” as opposed to “cannot lie”, “could face consequences” as opposed to “will face consequences”.

I can’t quite articulate what bothers me about it, but I think feels like almost hedging? As opposed to making specific statements. I get if they can’t shouldn’t lie, but this feels like something they should know the specifics of and not have to come across worried about lying about, given it’d be in their PM.

PPE: 5 posts came in while writing this and being distracted by things, and I haven’t read ‘em yet.

[notquitethere]

Going to predict

I'm going to predict:

- I'm super confident about the setup and get blindsided on D3 by some new kind of cult Web made up
- 4mask is scum and attempts some completely unnecessary fancy play
- Jim and Toony are evil third parties again but they get away with it because of the gamblers fallacy
- Persus13 has to replace out and someone we haven't seen in ages like Tiruin or Cheeetar replaces in
- TricMagic protects the cult leader from the town vig's kill



Vector, which player is already giving you a bad feeling?


Hector13

Aww nobody chose entrance music (blue) meanies.

I had entrance music!

There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie

This seems like a really dangerous line to push. There are loads of situations where town should lie in mafia, aren't there?

Miller-like claim Here: I am not Evil, but my actions do have the "Monster" tag.

I'm guessing some kind of were-beast. We should be on the look out for bodies killed with claws or teeth.

[4maskwolf]

Never have I been so offended by something so true.

[EuchreJack]

Aww nobody chose entrance music (blue) meanies.

Lenglon’s probably third-party if their claim about a post-restriction is true, but I have my doubts it is.

There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie; it would be a little harsh to have a “can’t lie” post restriction on scum in a game of social manipulation (though webadict I think does sometimes tailor roles to players, possibly in more bastard setups though) which leaves TP.

Post Restriction Claim Here: I should not lie, and could face consequences for doing so.

Anyway, I’m mostly discomfited by the wording of the claim. “Should not lie” as opposed to “cannot lie”, “could face consequences” as opposed to “will face consequences”.

I can’t quite articulate what bothers me about it, but I think feels like almost hedging? As opposed to making specific statements. I get if they can’t shouldn’t lie, but this feels like something they should know the specifics of and not have to come across worried about lying about, given it’d be in their PM.

PPE: 5 posts came in while writing this and being distracted by things, and I haven’t read ‘em yet.

Eh, maybe we'll do Ending Music as we die off instead. 

Apparently, Lenglon using a post restriction to cover for being scum is a thing she did before.

NQT's analysis pointed out three varieties of Third Party that are either neutral or pro-town, hence why I'm inclined to put off voting Lenglon today.
NQT seems to be defending Lenglon.  Interesting.

[Maximum Spin]

I have to admit, I agree with hector about the phrasing on that claim being really weird.

I have entrance music, it's not my fault if you can't hear it.

There would be no need for a town!Lenglon to mention a post restriction like that, ‘cause town don’t really need to lie

This seems like a really dangerous line to push. There are loads of situations where town should lie in mafia, aren't there?

No, lynch all liars.

[Lenglon]

NQT / Perseus: my role is not on your list of previous roles. I believe you would consider me either town or town-ally if you had access to my role pm.

Hector: My claim is phrased that way because my restriction, as Web has stated repeatedly as how he does them when discussing post restrictions in setup discussions, can technically be ignored if I choose to do so (it's opt-in). If I do that, and then choose to perform a specific action, very bad things will happen to me. If I never do that action, I would have no negative effects from lying. I am technically capable of lying, it is just highly inadvisable and I do not intend to lie at any point this game. That is why the odd phrasing.

[notquitethere]

- 4mask is scum

Never have I been so offended by something so true.

Interesting slip

NQT's analysis pointed out three varieties of Third Party that are either neutral or pro-town, hence why I'm inclined to put off voting Lenglon today.
NQT seems to be defending Lenglon.  Interesting.

There are also a lot of third parties who are anti-town, so this reasoning won't fly indefinitely. Also, I'm not defending Lenglon, I'm saying all town players should be on the look out for monstrous kills, as Lenglon has claimed to be a truth-telling monster. The methods of death are usually known in Supernatural, so it'll be obvious if there's a werewolf etc.

No, lynch all liars.

Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.


Lenglon

NQT / Perseus: my role is not on your list of previous roles. I believe you would consider me either town or town-ally if you had access to my role pm.

Well do you have a town wincon or not? It's not what I would consider, it's what you have. You're either town or you're not.

[4maskwolf]

Considering that we already know at least one new mechanic (monster actions) and that Web had a huge number of ideas for a Supernatural game, it may be best to treat this game as a thematically similar game to previous supernaturals that we can’t rely on mechanics from.

My role, for example, is technically a variant on an existing role on that spreadsheet, which makes sense thematically but the actual utility I provide is completely distinct from the base role.

[4maskwolf]

Please, you and I both know what I was referring to NQT.

[Maximum Spin]

No, lynch all liars.

Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.

So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!

[4maskwolf]

No, lynch all liars.

Too simplistic. I partially claim, mislead, imply and outright fabricate as town if it's useful for outplaying scum. Scum thrive in an environment where they have good info on town powers and know who they have to kill and who they need to redirect etc. I beseech all my fellow town players to lie.

So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!

Bro you just posted cringe. You are going to lose subscribers.

[notquitethere]

Please, you and I both know what I was referring to NQT.

Hence why I wasn't voting you over it! I look forward to seeing the fancy play though.

Considering that we already know at least one new mechanic (monster actions) and that Web had a huge number of ideas for a Supernatural game, it may be best to treat this game as a thematically similar game to previous supernaturals that we can’t rely on mechanics from.

Yes and no. The tags are very Wuba, and some roles may have been changed or expanded, but the basic ideas are there. For example, if someone claims to have been resurrected by a priest, we can expect they might have changed alignment; if someone says they have item based powers we can be pretty sure they're lying; if a body turns up with stab wounds they probably weren't murdered by a werebear, and so on. While the game is certainly different, we can still reason about the game.

So you admit to being a liar, who should therefore be lynched! notquitethere!

Haha, come on.