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Total Members Voted: 14

[Madman198237]

Steel-cored bullets are not going to be the best option, not really. Instead, we should make use of one of the properties of Gavrillium that caused us so much !!FUN!! and grief and make Gavrillium-cored bullets and shells:

Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions
We know from our observations that the Abberans have likely develop a lot of armor. That is OK, as we have a ready-made counter to ballistic armor made of fibers: Gavrillium-U. By firing bullets made of Gavrillium-U, we can effectively throw streams of molten metal at our opponents from all our guns. The Gavrillium-U core is exposed at the base of the bullet itself (exposed directly to the detonation of the propellant), but is sheathed everywhere else in thin copper, which prevents the rapidly-melting Gavrillium-U from damaging the barrel on the way out. This sheathe steadily softens as the bullet flies, until it itself melts and the bullet splatters and sticks on impact, melting or setting fire to anything it strikes. Using these bullets, it may be possible for machineguns to melt tanks and for infantry to kill enemy infantry no matter how much armor they're wearing. FMJG munitions are made a standard additional armament, made for any caliber we use, even if we don't expect to see many 150mm howitzers or 105mm Scylla bunker guns firing the things.

Using incendiaries basically turns fabric-based armor like their inevitable woolen ballistic vests into a liability instead of protection (at least until they spend an action to make the wool fireproof or whatever, then we're back to shooting them in the face with molten metal), and it turns machineguns into terrifying devices capable of steadily melting their way through a tank. Hopefully.

For anyone who missed the Discord discussion, I rather like the proposed idea of just making the Perahudara as it currently stands into a transport airship instead of an assault one, since adding armor AND fixing the control scheme seems a bit much to ask of one revision, not to mention getting a dedicated transport airship is going to fix most of our logistics problems forever.

[Taricus]

Yeah, that's going to make our heavier guns with that ammo a lot more expensive with the increased gavrilium cost. Besides we already have incendiary gavrilium rounds for the heavier guns too.

[Madman198237]

We have M2-like incendiary explosives, yeah, but this is a oh-crap-there's-a-tank direct fire solution to all your armored problems---shoot it with molten metal.

So, to answer the big complaints brought up in Discord: Conduction cooling via the air is not likely to be an issue, as we're heating a chunk of metal beyond its melting point and it's heating the air via friction, and besides, bullet flight times aren't long. If Gavrillium keeps heating itself for even ~2 seconds, we're golden. Also, the round won't melt the barrel, it's jacketed. If that's not clear enough, tell me and I'll fix it.

So the biggest problem with using a steel-core KINETIC PENETRATOR is that their sheep wool absorbs kinetic energy, and the first darn thing I'd do if I had that resource is get a vest equipped on every infantrymen, potentially making them nigh-immune to small arms fire.

[Baffler]

For anyone who missed the Discord discussion, I rather like the proposed idea of just making the Perahudara as it currently stands into a transport airship instead of an assault one, since adding armor AND fixing the control scheme seems a bit much to ask of one revision, not to mention getting a dedicated transport airship is going to fix most of our logistics problems forever.

That doesn't sound like a good idea honestly. As it stands we have no motor pool. We desperately need to get SOME kind of combat ready vehicle before we start fighting the Aberrans, and I don't see how welding on some armor plating that it sounds like we have the plans for but not the tooling to manufacture should be too difficult but creating a single control station to replace what used to be three, with all the electrical and mechanical engineering that entails, is just fine. And even if it is we can't really afford to wait on it anyway.

[Madman198237]

Because the addition of armor might very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back, making a transport-only variant will do great things for our logistics, and plus we have one more turn, IIRC, before we actually meet the enemy, giving us one more design and revision to fix vehicles. Armored ground vehicles might not be that useful in the city unless we get something MUCH more heavily armored, likely in the design, which means that power armor design and a revision to do...whatever, would probably be best.

[Baffler]

Logistics is abstracted though, so using something in purely that role means that it's essentially wasted. We'd get some economy of force advantages from being able to move troops around the rear faster and that's about it. And we are fighting the Abberans this turn, I thought. We'd choose how to occupy the city to determine our starting positions and then do our first proper combat against them from that instead of NPCs like before.

[Madman198237]

I mean, yes, it's abstracted, but a +1 is a +1 whether it comes from having a better rifle or from having superior logistics (which are what really win wars regardless of the weaponry involved)

[Twinwolf]

And we are fighting the Abberans this turn, I thought. We'd choose how to occupy the city to determine our starting positions and then do our first proper combat against them from that instead of NPCs like before.

We're not. The first proper "combat", our designs against theirs, is next turn. This combat phase will be us getting into those starting positions according to our choices.

[Rockeater]

Design for an option to the hookshot and starting with walking tanks, I know it's too hard for what it's worth, but I might as well put it here
"Centaur" mechanical carrige
Fighting in cities and areas with numerous steep surfaces limit the ability to move wheeled verichels and utilize bigger weapons, one soulution to some of this probeloms is a carrying animals, this is the answer of science to that, the Centaur is our first legs using vehicle being a bit larger then a hourse using four Myomer with a flat top exept the driver area in the front, on the front is placed a device using our new discovery about myomer, when exposed to strong magntic field myomer extend in the field diraction in incredeble speed and contract back when the field stop, the device utilise that by having one edge of a Myomer rope attached to the Centaur while haveing a hooking device on the other end, if aimed right the hook can be catched on a location and when electrifing the rope will allow the Centaur climb much steeper surfacese then would be expected.

[Baffler]

I mean, yes, it's abstracted, but a +1 is a +1 whether it comes from having a better rifle or from having superior logistics (which are what really win wars regardless of the weaponry involved)

What I'm saying though is that there's a really low-hanging +1 but people seem convinced we have to settle for +0.5 when there isn't actually anything concrete to say so.

[Twinwolf]

While I'm not going to vote for revising the airboat into a logistics craft, it actually would be pretty good for Harren specifically because of it's location - getting troops across the water is quite helpful. That said, I think there's better things we could do with the revision.

Honestly, the Armored Sleds (/Roofed Sleds) probably do the job of an armored vehicle adequately for Harren. I wouldn't be opposed to revising the Kerata or the Perahudra to actually be usable for their intended roles though.

[Taricus]

Getting the Kerata into a position where it can use it's theoretical speed and not self-destruct would be great. Just need someone to repost one of the suggestions for it.

[Madman198237]

Well, heading into city combat means that the Armored Sled is going to cut it for a bit, though if they've actually got a decent grenade the Sleds are going to be limited to stationary deployment in rear areas, I suspect. Regardless, the Kerata is not a super-useful armored vehicle in the city streets, even if we fixed it and doubled the armor.

CAS-13 Perahudara-C Cargo Airship
Based on the mediocre Perahudara AAS, the Perahudara-C unifies the control scheme so that one operator has control over the propeller and both Lifting Engines. The back door has been modified into a ramp, and the weapons removed, so that the Perahudara can now serve as a transport for anything that might need moved be it more soldiers than can be lifting in a basic Perahudara or anything that can be tied down in the hold, whether over a river or over a hundred miles of desert.

CAS-13 Perahudara-C: (1) Madman
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions: (1) Madman
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Bomber Variant: (0)
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System: (0)
Armour Piercing ammunition: (0)

I think I got all the proposed revisions in there? Sorry if I missed one.

So yeah, before we meet the enemy I think it might be best to have the ability to set fire to their inevitable woolen armor, and if we start by revising the Perahudara into a solid cargo vehicle, a further revision should be capable of returning it to combat capability and armoring it. It gives us two variants serving two vastly different purposes, using only two revisions (and a design, but that rolled 4 [-1 modifier] so it's not REALLY a loss).

[Twinwolf]

Adding a kerata revision to the vote since a couple people had considered that.

CAS-13 Perahudara-C: (1) Madman
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions: (2) Madman, Twinwolf
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Bomber Variant: (0)
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System: (1) Twinwolf
Armour Piercing ammunition: (0)
ArC-13c "Kerata" Armored Car (0):

[Rockeater]

CAS-13 Perahudara-C: (1) Madman
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions: (3) Madman, Twinwolf, Rocketer
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Bomber Variant: (0)
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System: (2) Twinwolf, Rockeater
Armour Piercing ammunition: (0)
ArC-13c "Kerata" Armored Car (0):

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