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What Time Is It?

Space-Time
- 2 (14.3%)
Hammer Time
- 3 (21.4%)
Time...to die.
- 6 (42.9%)
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
- 3 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 14


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Author Topic: Industrialized Warfare: Salvios Thread / 1917 A.C. Cold Season (COMPLETE)  (Read 100289 times)

Taricus

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NUKE9.13

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Quote from: Votebox
CAS-13 Perahudara-C: (2) Madman, NUKE9.13
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions: (4) Madman, Twinwolf, Rocketer, NUKE9.13
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Bomber Variant: (0)
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System: (2) Twinwolf, Rockeater
Armour Piercing ammunition (1): Taricus
ArC-13c "Kerata" Armored Car (1): Taricus
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Twinwolf

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Also, in case anyone was wondering: It's been confirmed in discord that we'll be able to see Abbera's full armory, and they'll see ours. Because once we're both in Harren it'll be a little absurd for us not to see what the other guy has.

((Also, more votes, Abbera's already locked :P))
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FallacyofUrist

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Quote from: Votebox
CAS-13 Perahudara-C: (2) Madman, NUKE9.13
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions: (4) Madman, Twinwolf, Rocketer, NUKE9.13
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Bomber Variant: (0)
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System: (3) Twinwolf, Rockeater, FallacyofUrist
Armour Piercing ammunition (1): Taricus
ArC-13c "Kerata" Armored Car (2): Taricus, FallacyofUrist
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NUKE9.13

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I was in a rush last night, so let me now explain my votes:
The Perahudara fix might as well make a tiny change to the back door in order to make it a more useful transport. That's the only real difference, right? Well, removing the guns, but the other option wouldn't result in something we'd want to send into combat either, right? I suppose maybe the gun removal should be optional, just in case we roll boxcars.
The FMJG ammo- I think Twinwolf had the most convincing argument (I think it was Twin, I can't remember exactly): it'd be more interesting than regular AP ammo.
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Twinwolf

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Ok, so my arguments:

The unified steering system and the cargo version of the Perahudara do basically the same thing, except the latter removes the guns and adds a ramp. For the primary purpose I see use of a cargo airship - ferrying troops and supplies across the river and into Harren - the Perahudara with better steering will do fine as is, and unifying the steering system is it's main problem and we can armor it in another revision. The main thing I can see the cargo variant being used for that we (probably) won't use the normal version for is lifting things like the LFG (I think the actual artillery pieces are probably too big, even for the cargo version, to have more than one in it). Thus, why bother with getting rid of the guns and such and adding difficulty to a future revision to make it combat capable? (Also: Not voting for the Kerata revision because for now, the added speed compared to the armored sled won't be a major factor due to us being in the city)

The full metal jacket gav rounds will probably be more interesting than standard AP munitions is part of my argument, yeah, but that's not the only thing. Do I expect that gavrounds will do better at piercing heavy armor like a vehicle or their paladin suit? No, although I expect they *can* do the job, especially loaded into a LGG or GGG. But I do think it'll be better against their kinetic wool, since it relies far less on the kinetic energy that that's so good at distributing, and the wool might even be flammable.
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Madman198237

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So, in the name of getting things moving, if MoP wants he can consider my vote to be for the Unified Steering System, even though I'm still voting for making a direct cargo variant out of the thing. Basically, if nothing switches in the next few minutes I'm fine with votes being locked and the game moving on.

There's no sense in NOT optimizing the Perahudara for cargo unless the revision is changed to add armor. Attempting to use an unarmored airship the size of a LCA (the famous D-Day landing craft, rectangular barge with optional armor) for landings anywhere near enemy positions is going to be nothing more than offering up our own troops to the slaughter.
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Man of Paper

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Consider ye votes locked.
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Madman198237

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So, for future design work (based on a mechanism Fallacy suggested in Discord and the previously-discussed antigravity weapons)

Antigravite Munitions (bonus points if you pronounce the "e" on the end)
Basic Gavrillium burns slowly but releases much energy as it does so. If you alloy some Gavrillium with a lot of Caelium, then set it on fire, it produces a most interesting effect: A region of neutral gravity, where the effects of gravity seem completely voided. This effect also suppresses the operation of Caelium antigravity engines of all known types. The effect lasts for a substantial amount of time as the Caelium and Gavrillium are slowly consumed by the flames, obviously lengthened by adding more Antigravite or reducing the burning area. The more Antigravite that is burning, the larger the gravity-neutralizing field is. The advantages are plentiful, and obvious. Any soldier who attempts to reposition themselves in an Antigravite field obviously must exert some force on the ground...causing them to float up...helplessly...in front of Salviosi guns. Vehicles that try to move suffer the same effect, though they may not float far they still need ground pressure (and thus friction) in order to move forwards. Antigravite denies them that friction. Also, the use of valuable manufacturing time to produce movie cameras and issue them to troops that was completely unsanctioned by the government and technically treasonous that was initially frowned upon by the government has been officially labelled "worthwhile", just in case the enemy has a tank which ends up doing cartwheels in an Antigravite field while in view of our troops.
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Man of Paper

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Industrialized Warfare: Salvios Thread / 1913 A.C. Cold Season (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #864 on: September 30, 2018, 05:32:33 pm »

Year 1913 AC Cold Season, Revision Phase


Proposal: Full Metal Jacket Gavrillium Munitions
Full Metal Jacketed Gavrillium Munitions
We know from our observations that the Abberans have likely develop a lot of armor. That is OK, as we have a ready-made counter to ballistic armor made of fibers: Gavrillium-U. By firing bullets made of Gavrillium-U, we can effectively throw streams of molten metal at our opponents from all our guns. The Gavrillium-U core is exposed at the base of the bullet itself (exposed directly to the detonation of the propellant), but is sheathed everywhere else in thin copper, which prevents the rapidly-melting Gavrillium-U from damaging the barrel on the way out. This sheathe steadily softens as the bullet flies, until it itself melts and the bullet splatters and sticks on impact, melting or setting fire to anything it strikes. Using these bullets, it may be possible for machineguns to melt tanks and for infantry to kill enemy infantry no matter how much armor they're wearing. FMJG munitions are made a standard additional armament, made for any caliber we use, even if we don't expect to see many 150mm howitzers or 105mm Scylla bunker guns firing the things.

Difficulty: Easy
Result: 13 (6+6+1) = Unexpected Boon

FMJ/G munitions are yet another Salviosi advancement that'll change the face of warfare forever. The bullet itself consists of a thin copper case packed with Gavrillium-U. When the propellant in the round is ignited a small hole in the rear of the bullet allows the small blast to trigger the Gavrillium-U's well-documented ability to melt down. Thanks to the time and effort dedicated to perfecting this new form of munitions, the formulae for the propellant, Gavrillium-U, and copper jacket have been perfectly balanced to minimize any negative impact to efficiency or effective range of our weapons. Our new powder formula has also been adopted by our other munitions, curing the issue of efficiency caused by the old Gavrillium-U formula.

As if that weren't enough, we haven't gotten to the effects of the round itself yet. When fired at relatively close range (the closest half of it's effective range) the round maintains it's solidity. As the round hits a target the copper casing, which is in a plastic state caused by the burning Gav-U, mushrooms as it penetrates, sending the now intensely heated and pressurized molten Gavrillium-U in a spray forward deeper into the target. Past that range the copper casing becomes molten and the round in essence becomes a high-velocity sticky fireball. The molten mess of a round squashes against targets and burns through most materials.

Gavrillium munitions are available to all of our small arms, Gatling Guns, and Field Guns.

FMJ/G Munitions production costs 3 Ore and 3 Gavrillium, making it (CHEAP). This means every soldier has a clip of FMJ/G rounds and our larger weapons are deployed with either a box or a crate of FMJ/G rounds.


----------------


Proposal: AAS-13 "Perahudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System
AAS-13 "Perhudara" Assault Airship - Unified Steering System

The Perhudara, for all it's faults, is still a ship capable of getting off the ground and into the air - a great accomplishment of engineering. It's problems can be summed up in it's separate steering systems, which leads to it's primary difficulties in setting a consistent bearing and speed. The obvious fix, is to unify the system (using various electrical systems) such that a single pilot can steer the craft. This will allow for far more reliable and speedy use and landing, more in line with the original visions for the design.

Difficulty: Easy
Result: 9 (5+3+1) = Above Average

By utilizing a series of electrical and mechanical systems we have been able to condense control of the ship to a single control console. With only one person necessary to control the various mechanisms of the ship we can now accurately gauge the maximum speed of the Perhudara at 25km/h. The controls are also highly responsive, but not overly so, allowing for more precise maneuvers than could usually be expected from a boat in the sky. The increase in resource cost for the control systems is offset by the removal of the unnecessary controls, so price for the Perhudara remains the same.


----------------


Once again failure is turned into success and the dynamics of the battlefield are changed forever. We have come to expect this of our brilliant engineers. Now you must assign a resource to a node and fortify a sector. Also be sure to make a final decision on your approach to the refugee issue of Harren City.

IT IS NOW THE STRATEGY PHASE.




Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Territories (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Special Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Credits (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 08:24:07 am by Man of Paper »
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Twinwolf

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Well, that's a nice surprise.

In any case, I think our choices are fairly clear. We should make the resource caelium, and put it somewhere in the back line - we're going to be making a lot with caelium down the line, and we're already using caelium steel in a lot of things. Fortification should be of any of the south peaks, savannah, or rolling hills since those are where they'd have to push after south crossing.

For strategy, A is out of the question because it could possibly result in us losing Harren 100%. Unless we're distinctly unconfident in our ability to hold Abbera off, we should do B or C. The resource from B, I think, is a good reason to go with that - could use it for basically anything, really. Ore, or more myomers, or more caelium.

Quote from: Strategy vote
Resource:
Caelium in Lowlands (1): Twinwolf

Fortify
Savannah (1): Twinwolf

Harren Approach
A (0):
B (1): Twinwolf
C (0):
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:29:17 pm by Twinwolf »
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FallacyofUrist

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I agree totally with this plan!

Quote from: Strategy vote
Resource:
Caelium in Lowlands (2): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist

Fortify
Savannah (2): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist

Harren Approach
A (0):
B (2): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist
C (0):
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NUKE9.13

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Sounds fine.

Quote from: Strategy vote
Resource:
Caelium in Lowlands (3): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13

Fortify
Savannah (3): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13

Harren Approach
A (0):
B (3): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13
C (0):
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Taricus

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Quote from: Strategy vote
Resource:
Caelium in Lowlands (4): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13, Taricus

Fortify
Savannah (4): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13, Taricus

Harren Approach
A (0):
B (3): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13
C (1): Taricus
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Jilladilla

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The Resource Credit is more valuable than the 1 patch of territory C would get us relatively; in my opinion.

Quote from: Strategy vote
Resource:
Caelium in Lowlands (5): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13, Taricus, Jilladilla

Fortify
Savannah (5): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13, Taricus, Jilladilla

Harren Approach
A (0):
B (4): Twinwolf, FallacyofUrist, NUKE9.13, Jilladilla
C (1): Taricus
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Glory to United Forenia!

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