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[Madman198237]

OK.
Draignean, do we need dice to create and revise tactics?

[Draignean]

OK.
Draignean, do we need dice to create and revise tactics?

Yes

[Madman198237]

Yikes.

Guys?


We MAY want to spend some dice on new tactics, saving ourselves the ore from developing the Cloudrunner any further. Spend a die to finish our crossbow project and get ready to hand it to everyone right down to their second cousins, and adopt some sniper/ambush tactics to go along with it. Doing better than "Fire until you can't fire and then rush them" will give us a huge advantage.

[milo christiansen]

Rush "Belt" Spires: (2) Madman198237, Milo
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (1) Tack

Anything else is idiocy.

Edit:
Tactics: Wouldn't they be designs, and thus take too much time to deploy right now, or are the revisions?
If they are revisions I could get behind a positional defense tactic to help us hold our soon to be aquired new spires.

[Tack]

My design submission (If we're committed to leaving the cloudrunner for a while)

Spoiler: The University of Wrethian Officer Tactics (click to show/hide)

It has been said that managing the delicate balances of energy between crystals on limited webbing under a depleted shroud is an artform.
At Spire Wreth, Home of the Glorious Bureaucratic Oversight and Governmental Mandate, we say that 'Art' is for the poor and aether-touched. Let's make it a SCIENCE, and then teach that science to our fine and upstanding militant youth.
Here at U-WOT, prospective ship captains and marine officers will be gathered together to learn the latest advances in battlefield tactics and comportment, and then how to impart some vague hope of these ideals into the rabble beneath them.
Whilst both sets of commissioned men and women will be privileged enough to attend shared classes such as 'Intro to Leadership', 'Crystal Management' and 'Enhanced Interrogation', they will also be split into individual classes based on their strengths so that they may learn the minutiae of their post.
For example, whilst our new Ship Captains will be learning such things as 'Navigation', 'Advanced Battlefield Manoeuvring' and 'Scuttling', Marine Officers will be in the classes for 'Intraspire Tactics', 'Cowardice Prevention^TM' and the all-important 'Autonomous Squad Asset Protection' (Colloquially known as 'A-Sap')
Most importantly, this period of intensive learning will give our honoured and permanently disfigured veterans new ways to serve our society as teachers, and give us a baseline of quality for new officers entering our fighting force. Those who are untalented or shabbily dressed (read: untalented) can be easily picked out and separated from our ripe wheat as it buds ready for harvest.
The University of Wrethian Officer Tactics: "Attendence is Mandatory!"

It's not tactics, but it can become tactics with revisions.

Rush "Belt" Spires: (2) Madman198237, Milo
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (1) Tack

Anything else is idiocy.

It's only 'idiocy' if victory would be assured. It's not, which means if we fail to take a spire we will have made absolutely zero progress on our resources.
So how about we don't throw around insulting words when we're making the decision between risky and safe. It only takes the Risky not paying off for you to look like the biggest idiot of them all.

Spoiler: The Accumulated Words of God (click to show/hide)

Question: Can a transport move, drop troops, then move again and drop the rest of its troops at a second location?

No. If you've got an action in your destination, you stop.

Draignean link=topic=164855.msg7510980#msg7510980 date=1500092440]
Production patterns are solely so you can place things on lines. Lines allow you to build a certain number of ships WITHOUT paying the cost normally associated with their frame. Making a production pattern is ONLY for you if you want to put a design on a production line.

You do NOT need have a production line to produce a ship. Adding new production lines will be difficult, and represents a significant investment in infrastructure. As a friendly bit of GM advice to give you a feel for progression, designing an expanded dockyard to give your existing single production line more mileage is a feasible thing. Instantly going to a mid-size dock is not.

You can produce your existing transports just by constructing the hull and the needed crystals, then telling me that you want to slot them together to make a ship out of them. Boom.

To reiterate: you can construct anything that has a cost by it. Production lines are JUST for gaining free construction up to a certain limit, and are NOT necessary to build a ship.
[/quote]

Draignean, what does a dockyard capable of running a production line for Transport Barges look like? How about one capable of producing the above frigate?

It looks like the one you already have. If you make a production pattern for barges or frigates, you can take the Skiffs off and put the new ships one.
With four years of development, you might (might) be able to come up with a new production line for small ships. It would be dicey and require great rolls.

Draignean, could you clarify whether aetheric cannons destroy web by overloading it, or setting it on fire?[/b]

One begets the other. Webbing is relatively thin stuff, and thus coating it in flammable material will burn it, but an aetheric cannon shot is particularly destructive since it overloads a large section of web, burns it to ash, and then starts secondary damage at the edges.

You can revise anything you already have, but you can't make changes to an unfinished design until you have a prototype.

The (current) upper limit of the aerosphere is a bit more than 3 miles, going above that for prolonged periods invites disaster. It's worth noting that's also an altitude at which even experienced marines will develop altitude sickness, which plays into the aether madness strongly.

Aether (as yet) cannot be bottled and contained directly. It can be channeled by webbing, transformed by core crystals, and devastating surges can be produced by weapons crystals, but there is no steady-state storage available. Think of Aether more as a high energy field than a gas, one that interacts with brains when the power gets high enough.

I'd like for a new hull to be our next design (by which I mean, next turn's design), yeah. Although I disagree with your idea of integrating armour into the hull- optional modular armour is better, since it gives us more flexibility when it comes to cost.

Much like mounting guns, you should really still specify whether you want a ship to mount armor or not. Mounting armor to a vessel that makes no mention of armor (like the skiff) would require a revision to modify the design, and would negatively impact performance. Some kinds of armor is comparatively easy to make modular (belt armor), but some kinds of armor have to be directly integrated into the design and paid for when you pay for the hull (an Armored Deck, although the theory behind it doesn't apply as well to airships).

Hey, Draignean, would it be possible to "funnel" Aether around a person's head by the use of an aethersilk full-facemask?

Not in a way that would let you aetherboard someone. It would actually provide a decent amount of protection (although the rest of their physiology would still be effected) from a critically elevated aetheric field.

Draig, how high into the atmosphere do the Calm and Everstorm stretch?

Best measurements indicate they top ten miles, though not by much.

Will we keep the Current after the Completed finishes, for improved Itshana Selects?

Yes.
Though Itshana Select crystals don't benefit as much from the improvement process (no double dipping), they already incorporate that. The Improvement basically just gives you a small bonus even if you don't pay for the select crystals.

The Skyskiff is Very Small. I don't think we can use a VS core/lift in a transport, though. They're already as bare-bones as they're gonna get. A VS core/lift wouldn't be able to lift the thing.
The crystals we can spend ore for are Itshana Select crystals.

Giving a transport a VS core or a VS lift would strain it to the utmost, and would be asking for disaster.  Both would be impossible.
Using Itshana crystals would reduce efficacy by a bit, but the transport could still function reasonably.

The Skyskiff is Very Small. I don't think we can use a VS core/lift in a transport, though. They're already as bare-bones as they're gonna get. A VS core/lift wouldn't be able to lift the thing.
The crystals we can spend ore for are Itshana Select crystals.

Giving a transport a VS core or a VS lift would strain it to the utmost, and would be asking for disaster.  Both would be impossible.
Using Itshana crystals would reduce efficacy by a bit, but the transport could still function reasonably.

Questions: Assume we make a small revision to a production pattern, like with the new crystal process or swapping a few cannons out. If we have ships from that line stationed where the production line is, is there a refit option, boosting the line's production for a few turns?
Is it possible to make a new production pattern on a prototype tech, unusable until after the tech is ready?

For simplicity's sake, no. You can replace the vessels at the line's normal production rate.
You can, however, absolutely make design/pattern/tactics decisions based off prototypes.

Draignean, will a copper-clad sheet of rust-able metal survive a hit that puts a relatively small hole in the copper? As in, will the rust shield the rest of the metal from the air?

No. Think of Iron Rot like an infection. Once it sets in, it will travel throughout the entire iron structure to a ridiculous degree- including typically stainless alloys.

Do we know if the shroud blocks lightning? As Madman's Taser Ballista idea sounds fun. Maybe it could even overload their lift crystal?

A shroud will stop a lightning strike. However, they will not stop a physical object from conducting energy through the barrier. As an example, a shroud effectively absorbs aetheric energy blasts, but webbing conducts aetheric energy through the shroud.

Revisions that are (mostly) unambiguously better and costless automatically overwrite the old tech. If a revision changes the tech's functionality or cost, you can manufacture the two independently.
For example, the Itshana improvements make all crystals unambiguously better, without increasing cost. Thus, any crystal is an Itshana crystal, and you don't need to select it independently.
However, the Select crystals (while unambiguously better) have a steep increase in cost, so you retain both the basic crystals and get an option to make the select version.

Draignean, do we have to revise our production pattern to let our auto-built Skyskiffs take advantage of the Itshana Process? (Not the Select crystals, but the passive boost to our normal crystals)

The passive, costless boosts that completely replace existing techs automatically applied.

Draignean, do we need dice to create and revise tactics?

Yes

God be pleased.
But yeah if someone wants to bullet-point those... be my guest.

[milo christiansen]

We are not designing anything this turn we need those dice for finishing our existing projects.

Specifically, we need to finish the crossbow, we need to revise our select crystals for expense, and we should revise some of our other equipment slightly. We simply have no dice for designs.

Quote for the day: "He who will not risk, cannot win"

[andrea]

still, this seems an incredibly high risk. Belt spires seem very defended and troublesome, trying to engage 2 at the same time with our still limited troops capacity seems extremely risky.

[Tack]

Exactly. I'd rather not lose all our guys to spiders.

[NUKE9.13]

Rush "Belt" Spires: (2) Madman198237, Milo
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (2) Tack, NUKE9.13

You people seem to be under the impression that the first person to a spire immediately conquers the whole thing, and gets a massive defensive bonus. I'm pretty sure that's not the case, and that it will take 4 turns to conquer an uncontested spire. If that is the case, then yes, rushing the middle makes sense. If it isn't, we only lose one turn's worth of progress by attacking the middle adjacent demi-spire, and gain a guaranteed 6 ore one turn earlier.

Draignean: Sorry to bother you. Does occupying an uncontested spire conquer it immediately, or does it take 4 turns?

Edit:
Tactics: Wouldn't they be designs, and thus take too much time to deploy right now, or are the revisions?
If they are revisions I could get behind a positional defense tactic to help us hold our soon to be aquired new spires.

This question is answered in the rules, as an example for the difference between a design and a revision. If it's a totally new tactic, it's a design. If it's a modification to existing tactics, it's a revision.

[Jilladilla]

Plan Rush Belt Spires + claim local ones
Transports: 2 normal, one 'budget' using a VS Itshana Select Core
Troop equipment: 4 squads worth of Bronze Cutlasses, 4 fire-teams worth of cheap crossbow, 2 squads worth of cheap crossbows

Proposed setup: Squads A,B,D,E: Swords + Crossbow Fire Team
Squads C and F: Crossbows to everyone
Transport A: Carry Squads A+B+C, Head to The Unfinished
Transport B: Carry Squads D+E+F, Head to Three Captains
'Budget' Transport: Grab Squads G+H(Both unarmed) Drop one off at our Central Demispire, move to left demispire and drop the other next turn

BUDGET:
res   transports     equipment
28   -  27  =  1      -  0     = 1 c
24   -  15  =  9      -  8     = 1 o
71   -  21  =  50    -  24    = 26w
28   -  6    =  22    -  0     = 22s
(Budget assumes we do not cheapen Itshana Process, and that Light Crossbows retain the Suppressors wood cost)

Dice Plan:
1 Dice: And Only one die, Cloudrunner progress
1 Dice: Finish Crossbow (Spend 2 if we want to be absoulutely sure... This plan falls apart a little if we fail to finish this. (I think a dual belt rush would be tricky in general without this though))
1 Dice: Revise a stripped down Light Crossbow variant

2 wildcards, one if we want to be absolutely sure of getting that crossbow done.
Also, I didn't leave in what we're doing with our Skyskiffs, with our passive Itshana boost they should be a little better than theirs, unless they improved them as well

Rush "Belt" Spires: (2) Madman198237, Milo
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (1) Tack
Plan Rush Belt Spires + claim local ones: (1) Jilladilla

(Tack, can you clip my Taser Ballista comment from the Accumulated Words of God? I'm guessing this is going in a public place, and we don't want to give those darn Kasgyr any ideas. Although if that's just going to be linked from the first post of our thread it'll be fine I guess)

[Tack]

Heck, I'm willing to vote with anyone who's taken the time to do the math.
What accommodations can we afford to make if we guarantee making Itshana crystals cheaper?

Skiffs... I think we're stuck between sending 5 to each to provide minimal protection to transports, or bunching up all 10 at one in the event of an actual battle happening.

[NUKE9.13]

Hmm :/

I'll grant you, the math checks out. IF we can cheapen the crossbows. Which, to be fair, should be possible with a revision. Although, if we roll poorly, it might end up even weaker than it already is.
I would add to your plan us spending a revision on better tactics. The fire & charge tactic won't work well for men without swords. (Mass Fire & Charge --> Mass Fire & Retreat)

Hey, actually, since we have plenty of silk, maybe we should give our squad commanders silk shirts? It'd only cost 6 silk, and might give us a small advantage, if they choose to deploy aetheric infantry weapons.

Skyskiffs, we send 5 of each to the Three Captains and the Unfinished.

If we manage to get cheap crossbows, I could support this plan.

[Jilladilla]

Shouldn't be too hard to cut the ore out, I'm literally talking about stripping out all the fancy bits that make the Suppressor not a vanilla crossbow, to turn it into a vanilla crossbow.

And didn't we boost the power with laminated wood or something like that? It shouldn't cut down on killing power then, just removing auto-fire and any reload assistance the equipment may offer. (I'm being thorough, to pretty much try to ensure that the ore cost is removed... And even if the power does drop a bit, it shouldn't matter too much if they don't have armor)
(Remember, my plan does leave 2 dice as wildcards, even if I personally am partial to spending one of those to ensure the Suppressor finishes.)

Tack, if we make Itshana Select Crystals cheaper, we would probably only save 1 or 2 ore, not 3, as I very highly doubt we'll make it free. Not enough to outfit a crossbow squad with full-on suppressors or give both of them backup swords.

Still, we do have wood for more crossbows (We can literally hand everyone in those 6 squads a crossbow if we wanted, but going that extreme would prevent us from making any Cloudrunner progress), and we can hand out some aethersilk vests too.

[NUKE9.13]

Projects:
1 die into Cloudrunner, 1 die into Suppressor (7 Wood, 1 Ore): (1) NUKE9.13

New Designs:
None: (1) NUKE9.13

Alright, fine. Let's do this.

[Nirur Torir]

The forums revive, and this is the first topic on the FG&RP board replied to. I'm not surprised.

Projects:
1 die into Cloudrunner, 1 die into Suppressor (7 Wood, 1 Ore): (2) NUKE9.13, Nirur

New Designs:
None: (2) NUKE9.13, Nirur