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Hey guys, since this seems to be the more popular thread right now, how exactly do you play enchanters? Stealth characters are the only thing I've never attempted, and they seem fun.

If someone (Aelig? Looking at you ) could give me a short breakdown of which skills you usually train at which point of the game, it'd be much appreciated!

I rarely use the starting Corono expect for some really high EV monsters. Since it doesn't really last long.
Confuse can help for most non rune parts of the dungeon.
Stair dancing certain group monsters like Death yak makes confuse a sure hit and eventually you will semi-backstab it do death. Works with most monsters.
Haven't found a higher level book yet so can't talk about the higher level Hex spells.
Without that it lacks a way to deal with certain enemies. So playing it as a melee with a side of hexing works decently. (confuse spell casters or annoying ability using monsters. I confuse orc priests on sight I hate em )

[Aelig]

Hey guys, since this seems to be the more popular thread right now, how exactly do you play enchanters? Stealth characters are the only thing I've never attempted, and they seem fun.

If someone (Aelig? Looking at you ) could give me a short breakdown of which skills you usually train at which point of the game, it'd be much appreciated!

Well, I'm really not a specialist of stealthy dudes but if you watch my winning SpEn description you can see that I have pretty much no offensive spells. I was completely unnable to kill a single orb guardian for instance because I did not need to kill any to win the game. And that's the main point, I skipped all of Depth and Zot on that guy.

Now to get your two Lair runes you can use your stealth to separate monsters and take them out one by one with confuse for the most part. For those who cannot be confused, you have several options. I chose to worship Kiku and enchant a quickblade with pain in my game but you could simply get a regular sword (some kind of long blade) and start hacking monsters once you get to the Lair branches. Or you could go for some kind of conjurations, or if you are lucky and you find a way to put invis on yourself you can basically cruise through everything, or you could go for summonings with mana viper to start (uses hex).

The one thing to not neglect are your defenses, once you have confusion at max spell power and a little investment in weapon skills (12 or so if you go shortblade, 14~16 if you go long blades) you can go really hard on dodging and get a little in armor, even if your armor aptitude is terrible. If playing a spriggan I would advise on getting str points on level ups to be able to wear light dragon armor instead of a robe.

To get your 3rd rune, discord is a favorite of mine for V:5 but I'm sure there are other options. In my game I got lazy and wanted to stop playing this guy so I did not bother trying more runes but investing in high level translocation spells would probably allow for more runes.

Now these are mostly advices for Spriggans, and running ungodly fast makes them a bit of an exception. I guess if I were to play a vampire for instance, I would go for offensive necromancy spells after Lair and Orc. The important thing is to invest heavily on defense and relly on movement and monster avoidance, while still getting up some kind of offense that is not hex related (because that's pretty much discord only at some point).

It's all about avoiding monsters anyway, that guy won a game at XL 9 recently, killing stuff is overrated.

[Arcvasti]

Hey guys, since this seems to be the more popular thread right now, how exactly do you play enchanters?

Be a kitty, first off. They're fluffy and teach you how to play stealth. Stealth 10, Hexes until Confusion is at 1% and then Unarmed Combat/Dodging/Fighting roughly equally. Maybe move Stealth up to 16-18 at some point. Worship either Makhleb, Fedhas or Trog, for the summons. In general, try to steal runes with blink scrolls and stuff. Pray to the god of your choice to get you through Zot.

[Damiac]

Did someone say something about streaking a MiMo?

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0-19-g8c6edcc (webtiles) character file.

1666701 damiac the Slayer (level 27, 243/243 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Monk on Nov 13, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Trog.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on Nov 14, 2016!
             
             The game lasted 05:40:46 (75651 turns).

damiac the Slayer (Minotaur Monk)                  Turns: 75651, Time: 05:40:47

Health: 243/243    AC: 50    Str: 23    XL:     27
Magic:  43/43      EV: 30    Int:  4    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   3469       SH:  0    Dex: 25    Spells: 0 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis .    a - +9 battleaxe (flame)
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    Y - +27 Lear's hauberk
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  +          Spirit   +    (helmet currently unavailable)
rElec  .          Reflect  .    B - +2 cloak {rF+}
rCorr  .          Harm     .    (gloves currently unavailable)
MR     +++..                    (boots currently unavailable)
Stlth  ..........               w - amulet of Curiosity {Spirit Dex+6}
                                g - ring "Tiemapecs" {MR+ MP+9}
                                v - ring "Apsoinug" {*Drain rPois rC+ Int-3} (curse)

@: slightly contaminated
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, icy blue scales 1, fire resistance 1, frail 1,
subdued magic 1
a: Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Burn Spellbooks, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and saw 46 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Volcano.

You collected 7882 gold pieces.
You spent 4413 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +9 battleaxe of flaming (weapon)
 b - the +7 longbow "Piercer" {penet, EV-2}
   (You took it off a tengu warrior on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   Ammo fired by it will pass through the targets it hits, potentially hitting
   all targets in its path until it reaches maximum range.
   
   It affects your evasion (-2).
 n - a +5 antimagic broad axe
Missiles
 y - 1348 arrows
 R - 7 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 B - a +2 cloak of fire resistance (worn)
 Y - the +27 Lear's hauberk (worn)
   (You acquired it on level 4 of the Vaults)
Rods
 k - a +0 rod of clouds (14/14)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 10 of the Dungeon)
Jewellery
 e - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 g - the ring "Tiemapecs" (right hand) {MR+ MP+9}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 l - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 o - an uncursed ring of resist corrosion
 t - an uncursed ring of flight
 v - the cursed ring "Apsoinug" (left hand) {*Drain rPois rC+ Int-3}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   
   It affects your intelligence (-3).
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It causes draining when unequipped.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 w - the amulet of Curiosity (around neck) {Spirit Dex+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Vaults)   
   
   [amulet of guardian spirit]
   
   It causes incoming damage to be split between your health and magic.
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
 M - a +6 ring of strength
 S - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 W - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
Wands
 h - a wand of paralysis (13/24)
 x - a wand of hasting (1/9)
 A - a wand of lightning (5/15)
 D - a wand of acid (13/15)
 H - a wand of disintegration (7/24)
 J - a wand of iceblast (1/15)
 L - a wand of acid (6/15)
 N - a wand of acid (11/15)
 O - a wand of digging (1/24)
Scrolls
 f - 12 scrolls of identify
 m - 4 scrolls of fog
 p - 19 scrolls of remove curse
 u - 6 scrolls of recharging
 F - 2 scrolls of fear
 T - 6 scrolls of blinking
 X - 14 scrolls of teleportation
Potions
 d - 2 potions of haste
 i - 3 potions of resistance
 q - 19 potions of curing
 r - 4 potions of heal wounds
 s - 5 potions of agility
 I - 4 potions of might
 K - a potion of invisibility
 P - 2 potions of cure mutation
 V - 2 potions of flight
 Z - 3 potions of cancellation
Books
 U - a book of Debilitation   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Corona                       Hexes                         1
    b - Slow                         Hexes                         2
    c - Gell's Gravitas              Hexes/Translocation           3
    d - Inner Flame                  Hexes/Fire                    3
    e - Cause Fear                   Hexes                         4
    f - Leda's Liquefaction          Hexes/Earth                   4
   
   
   Trog disapproves of the use of such an item.
Miscellaneous
 z - a lamp of fire
 C - 2 phantom mirrors
 G - a box of beasts
 Q - a sack of spiders
Comestibles
 c - 24 bread rations
 j - 5 meat rations


   Skills:
 + Level 26.4 Fighting
 - Level 20.0 Axes
 - Level 20.6 Bows
 + Level 25.5 Armour
 + Level 24.7 Dodging
 - Level 1.5 Stealth
 + Level 16.5 Evocations


You had 26 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (6/6) D:9
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (0/5) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:9             Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Dithmenos
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Uskayaw
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva
Lugonu

Shops:
D:10 }   D:11 **=*   Orc:2 }[(?   Shoals:4 *   Vaults:1 [   Vaults:2 =
Vaults:3 %   Vaults:4 *

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:3 Depths:5
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
Lair:6 1 runed door
Vaults:3 Donald
Zot:3 exclusions: door, draconian knight and draconian scorcher


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are partially covered in icy blue scales. (AC +2)
Your flesh is heat resistant. (rF+)
You are frail. (-10% HP)
Your spells are a little easier to cast, but a little less powerful.


Message History

You kill the adder!
Trog accepts your kill.
You see here an adder corpse.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (L) Lair           (A) Shoals         
(N) Spider Nest    (M) Slime Pits     (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(V) Vaults         (C) Crypt          (U) Depths         (H) Hell           
(Z) Zot           
Where to? (Enter - D:1 @ (x,y), ? - help)
You hear a chilling moan.
An Orb Guardian comes into view.
Okay, then.
You feel yourself speed up.
An ice devil comes into view.
You are lightly contaminated with residual magic.
Your extra speed is starting to run out.
There is an open gate here.
You feel yourself slow down.
There is an open door here.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You have escaped!


[vogonpoet]

Nice work Damiac Sweet shreds that dude is wearing.

@Graven> My take on Enchanters:

I am not good enough to avoid killing stuff in Zot (seriously, don't the monsters like get in the way?), so this is my kill all the dudes En build:

1. Play SpEn.
2. Go Ash, she is worth waiting for.
3. Initial skill progression: basically as recommended by Elliptic:

Code: [Select]

My 0.16 SpEn guide: SKILLS: Approximate goals are as follows: 1) 5 Short Blades, 8 Stealth. 2) 4 Spellcasting, 8 Hexes. 3) 3 Fighting, 8 Dodging. 4) 8 Short Blades, 12 Stealth. 5) 6 Fighting/Spellcasting, 10 Short Blades/Hexes, 15 Dodging/Stealth. 6) 10 Fighting, 27 Stealth, and whatever spell skills you want.4. Hope for Earth conjurations and passwall. Passwall is hilarious in Zot for instance. This game, I did indeed sleep stab one OOF, it feels great. Don't forget passwall also pretty good escape tool.
5. SpEn of Ash have ridiculous room to do whatever they feel like. I got cblink online this game, because I didn't find blink until very end.
6. Get summon butterflies. This combined with Sp speed is crazy effective. Combined with LRD and you can kite basically everything (thats how my FeEn killed juggernaughts, butterflies and LRD).
7. If you go conj/summons/both (Its SpEn of Ash, so do both), stay in robe, pump Int, aim for Ash enhanced Stealth and Dodging to both be at 27 by time you hit Zot.
8. You want Ironshot/LCS, Malign gateway, and Shadow creatures, but one of the three is enough. I killed a lot of dudes with Shadow creatures this time round.
9. With Ash, Abyss rune practically free, with Discord, V5 practically free, so may as well do both.

Don't do FeEn, I thought Fe were horrible. Horrible.

[Not good with names]

Another En note that it looks like no one has mentioned, but Tukima's Dance is pretty great as well.  It's got a little bit better base spellpower than confuse and it disarms as well as dancing weapons that'll attack and usually kill their targets, even off screen.  I probably use that as much as confuse, if not more (at least outside of lair).

[vogonpoet]

YEah I had to come back to make a similar point . I dont really dig Corona, but all the other starting spells just keep on being awesome. After C, I only ever forget TD, and thats IF I have Discord online (in which case you want the insane guys armed and dangerous).

From my just won SpEn:

Code: [Select]

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |   174 |   131 |   417 |   687 |  1137 |  1047 |  1472 |  1696 |  1143 ||  7904
       Throwing net      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |    14 ||    16
 Cast: Corona            |     1 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Confuse           |     3 |     4 |    50 |    51 |   160 |   170 |   445 |   477 |   257 ||  1617
       Ensorcelled Hiber |     1 |    14 |    31 |   143 |   200 |   377 |   150 |    59 |    36 ||  1011
       Tukima's Dance    |       |     1 |    11 |    19 |    91 |    74 |    60 |    50 |       ||   306
       Dazzling Spray    |       |       |     5 |    24 |   121 |   142 |   164 |   145 |    77 ||   678
       Passwall          |       |       |       |     4 |    45 |    62 |    28 |    30 |    67 ||   236
So don't underestimate the starting book - successfully confused several Orb Guardians this time round for instance. Dazzling spray will do nicely for Death yaks, elven sorcerors, golden dragons, all sorts of stuff.

//Also depicted: Mara and ALich net stabs 

[Tegga21]

OK yeah I'm out. I'm obviously having extreme difficulties adapting to the current version so there's no point in wasting more time. Best of luck to everyone out there!

I'm doing pretty terrible too

Got back to back wins, then struggled getting an Ogre off the ground, just got a 15run ogre fighter win and now trying to chain a gargoyle (about to grab first rune) this version seems alot rougher on melee

[Tegga21]

@ thedarkstar   lol the girl I live with that plays crawl (ggurman) her ghost just killed you lol

[Graven]

Thanks a ton everyone! I'll take my time to go through these, try out everything and see how it goes. Hopefully next tourney is not a complete and utter failure for me

[Tegga21]

won 2 in a row again, then got a d2 unavoidable gnoll pile with polearms

[Damiac]

Gah, had a 2 win streak, was hoping for 3, but my HoAK was surprisingly behind the power curve all game, and I swear I got the hardest version of the dungeon possible....

On D14, I autoexplored into a vault with green crystal walls, filled with fire and ice dragons, so I was getting double bounced...  3 75% success chance banish attempts failed later, I was dead...

I just don't get it.  Maybe I spent too much XP on invocations?  A hill orc with axes is generally pretty well ahead of the power curve, I screwed something up apparently. 
By the end I was so frustrated that I died in a stupid situation.  I should have just abyssed myself, but every step of this game was so painful and frustrating...

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0-19-g8c6edcc (webtiles) character file.

84361 damiac the Severer (level 15, -14/138 HPs)
             Began as a Hill Orc Abyssal Knight on Nov 14, 2016.
             Was a High Priest of Lugonu.
             Killed from afar by an ice dragon (38 damage)
             ... with a blast of cold
             ... on level 14 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 02:14:21 (43326 turns).

damiac the Severer (Hill Orc Abyssal Knight)       Turns: 43326, Time: 02:14:34

Health: -14/138    AC: 25    Str: 20    XL:     15   Next: 80%
Magic:  14/26      EV: 14    Int: 12    God:    Lugonu [*****.]
Gold:   410        SH:  2    Dex: 12    Spells: 1 memorised, 13 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis .    a - +3 battleaxe
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    X - +0 fire dragon scales
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (shield currently unavailable)
rPois  .          Spirit   .    H - +2 helmet
rElec  .          Reflect  +    D - +0 cloak
rCorr  .          Harm     .    Q - +2 pair of gloves
MR     +....                    C - +1 pair of boots
Stlth  ..........               A - +2 amulet of reflection
                                V - +2 ring of protection
                                u - ring of protection from cold

@: studying Armour
A: no striking features
a: Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss, Renounce
Religion


You were on level 14 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Lugonu.
Lugonu was extremely pleased with you.
You were very hungry.

You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 22 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.

You collected 2232 gold pieces.
You spent 1822 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +3 battleaxe (weapon)
 b - a +0 longbow
 y - a +2 battleaxe
 J - a +1 scimitar of flaming
 K - a +2 hand axe
Missiles
 d - 28 tomahawks (quivered)
 j - 709 stones
 t - 331 arrows
Armour
 B - a +0 ring mail of fire resistance
 C - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 D - a +0 cloak (worn)
 H - a +2 helmet (worn)
 P - a +0 plate armour of poison resistance
 Q - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 X - +0 fire dragon scales (worn)
 Y - the -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
   It protects you from mutation.
Jewellery
 o - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 r - an uncursed ring of flight
 u - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 x - an uncursed amulet of magic regeneration
 A - a +2 amulet of reflection (around neck)
 U - the ring "Olesm" {rC+ MR+ Str+2 Stlth+, unknown}
   (You took it off a centaur warrior on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 V - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)
Wands
 e - a wand of disintegration (3/24)
 s - a wand of heal wounds (6/9)
 w - a wand of flame (13/48)
 E - a wand of enslavement (8/24)
 M - a wand of teleportation (3/9)
 N - a wand of lightning (2/15)
 S - a wand of iceblast (5/15)
Scrolls
 f - 2 scrolls of fog
 n - a scroll of recharging
 p - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 z - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 I - 2 scrolls of fear
 T - 5 scrolls of magic mapping
 W - 3 scrolls of blinking
Potions
 g - 4 potions of flight
 h - 2 potions of cure mutation
 i - 2 potions of might
 m - 6 potions of curing
 F - 2 potions of invisibility
 G - 3 potions of lignification
 O - a potion of berserk rage
 R - a potion of resistance {unknown}
 Z - 2 potions of cancellation
Books
 L - a manual of Armour
Miscellaneous
 k - a lamp of fire (inert)
Comestibles
 c - 16 bread rations
 l - 8 royal jellies
 q - 9 meat rations
 v - 12 fruits


   Skills:
 + Level 14.2 Fighting
 + Level 18.1 Axes
 + Level 3.5 Bows
 + Level 11.3 Armour
 + Level 9.7 Dodging
 + Level 5.6 Necromancy
 + Level 15.2 Invocations


[vogonpoet]

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.0-19-g8c6edcc (webtiles) character file.

             Killed from afar by an ice dragon (38 damage)
             ... with a blast of cold
             ... on level 14 of the Dungeon.

rFire  ++ .      SeeInvis .    a - +3 battleaxe
rCold  . . .      Gourm    .    X - +0 fire dragon scales
                                V - +2 ring of protection
                                u - ring of protection from cold
 U - the ring "Olesm" {rC+ MR+ Str+2 Stlth+, unknown}
   (You took it off a centaur warrior on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
 z - 3 scrolls of remove curse


Agree that at this stage, not wearing hat of alch was reasonable, and I see you just picked up this ring, but you nonetheless died to a blast of cold, with no rC, whilst carrying an unidentified source of quick-swappable rC and a rem curse scroll. Not to mention your awesome stack of blinking scrolls

That vault sounds sucky though. TBH, pre lair branches, I often try to avoid obvious vaults in D12-D15, they can be pretty hardcore.

[secondsicily]

Please if anyone sees me trying to get my 3rd rune in abyss or slime, just come into my game and stop me.

[Tiruin]

@ thedarkstar   lol the girl I live with that plays crawl (ggurman) her ghost just killed you lol

Ghosts! ;~; Prime cause of my deaths (other than hilarious 'oops wait I positioned myself wrong and got into melee without backup :I')

Hopeful that I can churn out at least ONE win in the next 5 days x.x Hello Formicid Gladiator (hurray for our first win of a Fighter \o/ ...condolences to you, Icy :< That run looked awesome).