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[FallacyofUrist]

FallacyOfUrist:
Why haven't you voted?

That post was enough, thank you. The reason I haven't voted is because of the lack of activity(on some player's parts). Today I wanted to start a hunt on Tiruin and hopefully garner some good reactions. Needless to say, that's not really possible without some activity.
~~~
It's worth noting that you have no real case against Tawarochir. Or rather, it doesn't look very good to me.

It looks like you've placed a pressure vote, to me, anyway.
~~~

Time for an update on my scumminess targeting.

Spoiler: Spoilered For Your Convenience: (click to show/hide)

Least Scummy

FallacyofUrist(...)
Tawarochir(clear, concise, quite active, really, in my opinion hasn't done anything that merits a vote)
Jack A T(for obvious reasons, I consider him town. Hasn't done much to merit suspicion)
flabort(pretty much the same)
Deus Asmoth(and so on, was a little inactive earlier but has since made up for it)
NQT(... I think he's a survivor.)
TheDarkStar(looks like you're making up for the lack of activity now, but you've still got a ways to go)
Teneb(at least his inactivity was explained)
Tiruin(her inactivity was also explained, but the little content she has posted leaves a feel in my gut and doesn't say much. A bit of activity from her might help a bit.)

Most Scummy

I'm currently waiting on Tiruin. But for the moment...

TheDarkStar: Inactivity isn't much of an active scumtell. On the other hand, what little Tiruin has posted doesn't look like actual activity, more like active lurking to me. In my opinion. Maybe I need to read the thread a few times or something. Hm hm.

TheDarkStar: Is Tawarochir really the best lynch candidate? It seems to me that you're grasping at straws.

[Tawa]

I think that I'll just drop my case against NQT for now. I'm not as sure as I was before that he is actually scum.
Unvote
TDS: It also appears you completely missed my reformation of my theory. Also, how did you fail to notice a vote literally two posts above the one you quoted?
Deus: Is it just me, or is it humorous that you're voting on me for tunneling when you've spent all day tunneling me, and based on even less than I had on NQT, as well?

[Deus Asmoth]

Tawa, it's just you. Partially because that word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. Tunneling is pursuing a case almost entirely because of confirmation bias. I haven't been doing that. Also partially because I've presented ample reasoning behind why I think you're scum, while you've admitted that a large chunk of you're case on NQT was based on confirmation bias and dismissed it. Why is TDS questioning you about your earlier actions worthy of a FoS? Do you have any response to my earlier posts to you?

Deus Asmoth:

My guess for the scumteam is Tawa

Why?

A few reasons. His case today was one of someone who wanted to lynch NQT, not scum. His arguments were often a misrepresentation of what NQT said, and his major reason for thinking that NQT was scum was the gambit. My initial vote on him was because he admitted that he wasn't able to bring any points against NQT, implied that he wanted other people to do so and left his vote where it was in spite of being unable to justify it. His response to me being suspicious of him was to FoS me (and now vote for me purely because I'm pursuing a case on him), and his standard response to my questions to him seems to be claiming that I'm trying to strawman his arguments. He hasn't replied to my last posts about him in spite of promising a response while voting for an extension. He's claimed suspicions on FoU, TDS and me, and said he was suspicious of Jack before. But he's done next to nothing to follow those suspicions up.

at least one of Teneb, Tiruin or TDS

This appears to parrot other people's (especially Jack's) suspicions. It's also a list of all the less-active people. Why do you think one of me, Teneb, or Tiruin are scum?

Because in my experience, at least one member of the scum team always seems to be one of the least active players in the game. Hence I'd say it's a decent bet that one of you three are scum.

and a weak scumread on flabort based off this being the second time today that he's voted for someone almost immediately after another player raised suspicion about them, which seems a bit inattentive. Fallacy seems oddly determined to get you lynched, which I've honestly been putting down to newness as a player when considering that I've never seen the player with the most posts being scum. I have a reasonable town read off Jack and a strong town read off you.

Can you explain your town reads?

Sure. NQT's gambit and his responses during it do not feel like something scum would do. It drew huge amounts of attention on himself and was just asking for someone to inspect him. He's presented his thoughts on the result of the gambit and they seem to be consistent with the reasoning he's presented. I have more concrete proof for my read on him, but I'd rather wait until tomorrow to present it.

Jack meanwhile is at least partially a gut feeling on my part. The inspect power he's claimed seems too weak for something that scum fakeclaiming would choose to claim (given that he was prevented from using his power at all he could just have claimed a standard inspect if he were scum). Also, his unvoting of Tawarochir, specifically the reasoning behind it and that in doing so he just made a different wagon have the same number of votes as Tawa's did, wouldn't really make sense for scum Jack.

[Deus Asmoth]

EBWOP: Everything after that TDS quote should be addressed to TDS.

[Teneb]

Teneb, flabort's claimed inspect has a 3+roleflips/4+roleflips chance of success. That's never less that 50%.

I read that as 1+roleflips/4 rather than what was actually the case. Oh well.

Teneb: I don't think you ever answered the following:

Teneb: Why so willing to back my test, a test that sounds an awful lot like a nightkill?  Is NQT worthy of killing to you?

I did not think it was a nightkill, because announcing you were going to test NQT's role and then killing him would only end with you looking bad if he was not scum or anti-town third party.

... Tiruin and TheDarkStar(and Teneb), I really want to hear fro you.

Do you have anything in mind you want to hear from me? Or just activity in general?

pfp

[FallacyofUrist]

Do you have anything in mind you want to hear from me? Or just activity in general?

Activity in general. And hopefully some scum hunting.

[flabort]

flabort, why did you only decide that my focus on Tawa's NQTunnel was suspicious after someone else pointed it out? I've been questioning him for quite some time now.

Jack and Taw have similar avatars to you. I was (admittedly) focused on them, so I wound up skipping over your posts entirely by mistake.

Well that's... a reason. I guess.

Sorry it's not a good reason, but I'm human, so I am prone to human error.

flabort:

Everyone: That vote spread isn't good.  Votes scattered everywhere, with no cohesive wagons.  A few targets do stand out, though, as getting slightly more attention than others.  What do you think of an NQT lynch?  A TDS lynch?  A Tawarochir lynch?

I feel iffy on an NQT lynch. I'm still not convinced he's scum, despite the day 1 shenanigans.
I'd be OK with a TDS lynch, but since I don't have proof of my own that he's scummy, I don't feel comfortable voting for him right now.
I'd be OK-Dokie-artichokie about a Tawarochir lynch. I was voting him before; I don't feel his play this way is entirely reflective on him as a person, but I do feel it's reflective of his alignment.

Since you've told us three (and your DA vote makes four) of your reads, would you mind sharing the rest of them?

And just in case we don't get a third extend before day end, TDS, though I'd rather be voting DA or Taw right now.

Gah, I gotta go, this is my first time cooking rice for myself, and I wish I'd read the instructions beforestarting.

Who will you vote for now that the day has been extended?

TheLoneStar TheDarkStar: Who do you find second-most suspicious, and why?

NQT, as I've detailed in this post.

Reads (excuse the briefness/idiocy of some of the reads, I'm worn out atm)
Flabort 100% town
Jack 80% town
NQT could be scum, could be town; too much in his favor and against him to call right now.
Teneb No clue, honestly
Tiruin again lack of activity makes it hard to read her, but justified in shoddy internet
FallacyofUrist much novice play, so scummy, very wow
TDS As stated, no evidence as to why I feel he's suspicious, and wouldn't mind lynching
Deus asmoth acceptable lynch target
Tawarochir definitely scum

I will vote for Taw now that it's been extended.

[FallacyofUrist]

... for my benefit, would those who are voting against Tawarochir please post the three main points they're using so I can comprehend their votes easier?

[Deus Asmoth]

FoU:

A few reasons. His case today was one of someone who wanted to lynch NQT, not scum. His arguments were often a misrepresentation of what NQT said, and his major reason for thinking that NQT was scum was the gambit. My initial vote on him was because he admitted that he wasn't able to bring any points against NQT, implied that he wanted other people to do so and left his vote where it was in spite of being unable to justify it. His response to me being suspicious of him was to FoS me (and now vote for me purely because I'm pursuing a case on him), and his standard response to my questions to him seems to be claiming that I'm trying to strawman his arguments. He hasn't replied to my last posts about him in spite of promising a response while voting for an extension. He's claimed suspicions on FoU, TDS and me, and said he was suspicious of Jack before. But he's done next to nothing to follow those suspicions up.

[FallacyofUrist]

I do best with bullet points. But I should be able to sort it out...

• Because he wanted to lynch NQT, not scum.
• Misrepresentation of what NQT said.
• And his main reason for thinking NQT was scum was NQT's Gambit Grenade.
• First vote you placed on him was because he admitted he wasn't able to bring up any good points against NQT.
• And because he wouldn't remove his vote after he admitted that. Then he started counterattacking you.
• And he has an army of straw man arguments.
• No current reply(this is excusable, let's see what he says when he gets back).
• Finally, shotgun suspicions that have been not followed up.

Well, good sir, I think I can justify a large portion of your attack.

First up. Will you disagree with me that NQT has seemed, on and off, rather scummy over these two days? Tawarochir simply did what I did for the game, hammering attacks on NQT, but continued doing it longer than I did.
You'll notice that he's removed his vote on NQT after I justified NQT's behavior with a survivor hypothesis.
To me, his behavior against NQT is excusable considering what NQT did. However, his reaction attack against you is less excusable.
Shotgun suspicions... he's just attacking one person at a time while keeping other possibilities in mind(as I have done).

So, in summary:
His case against NQT is not scummy(in fact, his case against NQT should have been expected(a little bit)) and since has been disproved with a survivor hypothesis.
But after getting off NQT he got in a duel with you that seems a bit reactionary and defensive.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Tawarochir is semi-scummy at this moment. Weak scum lean to me, now. Enough to merit questioning.

Tawarochir: as other people have stated, your reactionary posting and weak scum hunting are a tad bit scummy. Explain.

[Deus Asmoth]

Why does Tawa merit a FoS if you're only slightly suspicious of him? In any case

First up. Will you disagree with me that NQT has seemed, on and off, rather scummy over these two days? Tawarochir simply did what I did for the game, hammering attacks on NQT, but continued doing it longer than I did.

Yes. I would disagree with that, since as I've said before scum!NQT's behaviour would be night suicidal in a game where he could almost certainly be inspected by at least one person.

You'll notice that he's removed his vote on NQT after I justified NQT's behaviour with a survivor hypothesis.

Correlation is not causation. The reasoning he's given for dropping his NQT case is not being as sure that NQT is scum, which could certainly be related to your theory, but his initial response to it was backing off NQT (and leaving the vote on) due to lack of evidence with the implication that he still wanted NQT dead.

To me, his behavior against NQT is excusable considering what NQT did.

I'm going to have to ask you why you think this is, since you're also giving the impression that attempting a gambit is scummy. What does a scum player have to gain from drawing such large amounts of attention on themselves at the start of the game?

So, in summary:
His case against NQT is not scummy

Making a case against a player is not scummy. Misrepresenting several points of what a player has done in order to make a case against them is scummy, which is what Tawa did (most obviously, his claim that NQT hadn't used the results of his gambit for any scumhunting, which he had done).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that Tawarochir is semi-scummy at this moment. Weak scum lean to me, now. Enough to merit questioning.

I disagree with you here. Tawarochir's case on NQT and tunneling seemed semi-scummy and worthy of questioning. His backing off and wanting other people to pursue the case for him seemed very scummy. His reaction to being questioned seemed extremely scummy.

[FallacyofUrist]

Yes. I would disagree with that, since as I've said before scum!NQT's behaviour would be night suicidal in a game where he could almost certainly be inspected by at least one person.

Suicidal. Yes. Being an experienced player, he would know that to be suicidal and might attempt it anyway because you might think that. Or something.

Correlation is not causation. The reasoning he's given for dropping his NQT case is not being as sure that NQT is scum, which could certainly be related to your theory, but his initial response to it was backing off NQT (and leaving the vote on) due to lack of evidence with the implication that he still wanted NQT dead.

Conceded.

I'm going to have to ask you why you think this is, since you're also giving the impression that attempting a gambit is scummy. What does a scum player have to gain from drawing such large amounts of attention on themselves at the start of the game?

"No scum player would draw that much attention on themselves!" Or some such.

Making a case against a player is not scummy. Misrepresenting several points of what a player has done in order to make a case against them is scummy, which is what Tawa did (most obviously, his claim that NQT hadn't used the results of his gambit for any scumhunting, which he had done).

Hm. Misrepresentation. Quite possibly so.

I disagree with you here. Tawarochir's case on NQT and tunneling seemed semi-scummy and worthy of questioning. His backing off and wanting other people to pursue the case for him seemed very scummy. His reaction to being questioned seemed extremely scummy.

Hm. Pulling the thread, eh? I see.
~~~

Why does Tawa merit a FoS if you're only slightly suspicious of him?

I use FoS to indicate suspicion I want known, not necessarily large amounts.
~~~
That said, per Deus' points Tawa is seeming a tad bit more scummy now.

Hm hm. Hm hm hm. Tawarochir, I'm very tempted to vote you right now. You need to explain yourself. Now.

[flabort]

Here you go, Fallacy, already in bullet-point form.

flabort: Explain why you think I'm scummier than NQT.

1) Well, I just explained how your tunneling. NQT is spreading out his accusations.
2) When you do throw out a FoS or vote on someone you're not tunneling on, you just throw it out (Like Deus said, lazy voting). NQT is supporting ALL of his cases, far as I can see.
3) Rather than properly refute points, you're just being arguementative with short replies. Most of NQT's responses have been longer and well reasoned.
4) Analysis of votes and FoSs indicates that you only ever had two suspects; one is dead, and the other is NQT. This goes back to the whole tunneling issue. NQT's votes and FoSs indicated first that he suspected myself, then 4mask, Jack, Deus Asmoth, myself again, and then TheDarkStar.  Not having any suspects is indicative that you may actually know who is town and who is scum; which colors your perception of each player.

[FallacyofUrist]

Thank you. Much more convenient for me.

1. Only attacking one person isn't necessarily scummy(it's when you're only attacking one person and doing it illogically that it's a problem).
2. Lazy voting. Maybe, maybe.
3. I would consider his replies concise and whatnot, but longer posts would be nice.
4. So tunneling issue.

So your real focus on Tawarochir stems from the fact that he tunneled on NQT, and everything else scummy about him chains from that(well, not everything, but much of it).

Hm hm. Hm hm hm hm. Yeah, he's a bit scummy.

We're waiting on a reply from him now.

[flabort]

Well, I know he already replied to the post I quoted.
But what do you make of his play?