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[Deus Asmoth]

Unvote.

Regarding Fallacy, I'm not really getting a scum vibe off him. Overfocusing on NQT's gambit seems more like the mark of a newish player than scum trying to push a mislynch. I'll get back when I can do some proper reading over the thread.

[Tawa]

Tawarochir: I noticed that while you've been answering questions with quite a bit of regularity, you have yet to actually ask anything, or even go after someone. That is active lurking, the act of looking like you are contributing to the scumhunt when you are not. Why so passive? Do you already know who is scum?

Hm? Oh, sorry! Still kind of new at this, and I'm not really used to asking questions of my own yet. We seem to be moving past the RVS phase, so I'm not really sure where to start asking questions.
NQT:

This doesn't seem like a very well substantiated view given that I've done more in this game outside of those claims than over half the other players.

...such as?

You don't really think I've been doing less in this game than 4mask, Tiruin, Lidku, Teneb, Jack, etc....

Point taken.
NQT, I thought that walls of text were generally frowned upon. Under what conditions are they generally considered acceptable?
4mask, I have a gigantic issue with this little bit of text here.

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

Yes, but not for the reason you'd probably think.

What reason is this? You never followed up on it.

[zombie urist]

Persus is replacing Lidku

[Persus13]

Hello, all, I am the replacement for Lidku. I've been following along with the game, but I'll read through the thread again to respond to questions and stuff being posted.

Nice to see I'm not being specifically targeted by NQT for jester tactics this time around.

[FallacyofUrist]

I take back what I said about NQT, on rereading and rethinking my initial reaction to reading his posts seems unfounded and indeed I'm not entirely sure how I got it. 

I'm going to quote this a second time, for Tawarochir's benefit.

What reason is this? You never followed up on it.

He never followed up on it because he changed his opinion(whatever it was in the first place.) Now excuse me, I've got some RTD to read(along with other forum games), after which I'll read back in the thread and seek out 4maskwolf's tells.

[flabort]

Everyone who is voting, why are your votes as they are?

I will explain this in depth in the morning.

For now, I'm going to say I have a growing suspicion about FoU since late Friday.

Why are you voting Fallacy? He's the most likely player to be town. Most frequent poster, unafraid to put himself in the firing line, seems genuinely engaged in reassessing his reads and engaging people. We shouldn't be lynching him today!

Firstly, while looking at the quotes I had to support my theory, I found evidence that FoU did more scum hunting than I first supposed, but I didn't find any evidence that outright disproved my theory.

My theory is that Fallacy decided early in the day that he and his scum-team would be lynching NQT and can't let go of that early desicion.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd like a bit more activity on this thread, nobody's taking the pressure up to higher levels.
NQT, really, why shouldn't we lynch you, given the massive amount of WIFOM you've spread, at no obvious gain for the town?

Throughout this series of quotes, I'll be showing Fallacy's obsession with convincing others that NQT deserves votes. It starts here, on late friday, when he demands that we pressure more, then immediately gives NQT a pointed question; directly connecting these, we see he wants us to put our pressure (and votes) on NQT.

The most beneficial lynch... NQT is the obvious choice. There are going to be other foes(most likely), and at the moment I don't have enough evidence to determine who those other foes are. All things considered, everyone who jumped on the WIFOM bandwagon is suspicious to me. Why, really, would any town or town-aligned player want to cause confusion in their ranks?

Here is an example of what I mentioned above this spoiler, how he was willing to do other scum hunting; but then he remained focused on the WIFOM bombs that got set.

NQT is a pile of timey-wimey goop.

All of a sudden mafia-ally seems like his alignment.
Of course, one suspect lynched correctly isn't going to win us the game. Though my vote stays where it is, I'm going to try to find other potential scum.
... thoughts ...

Well, it's a bit hard to read people who haven't posted a lot of good, dense, content. NQT is an easy read. Everybody else... not so much.
Tawarochir, however, hasn't posted substantial scumhunting stuffs that I've seen. With that in mind, I'm going to ask him a few questions.

This is the first example where he has to apply an anti-town alignment to NQT because he can't accept that NQT might be town. He doesn't supply any reasoning why he thinks NQT might be a mafia-ally.
We also see him doing something to hunt someone else, so this really isn't tunneling; but he only ever focuses on one other person and NQT at a time.

Whatever NQT is, I think we need him gone.
~~~
NQT: I am really looking forward to Jack inspecting you, if he wasn't lying. Hopefully that will shed some light on the matter.
Yet another possibility for NQT's role: Doomspeaker. An SK variant that wins after a certain number of turns, blasting the other players to smithereens in the process.

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

Right back to NQT, and again thinking up an anti-town alignment to apply to NQT, without any supporting reasoning why NQT would be this.
His question here ticked me off, because I don't like being threatened into doing what someone else wants. I did my best to refute his opinion that NQT should be gone because of that.

Good town play has a certain degree of self-preservation, but unless you're role is worth more to the town than other town players you should be prepared to take a hit for the team if it means saving a [cop/doctor/etc]. Not sure how this view makes me anti-town.

There's the issue. NQT, do you think your role is better or worse for the town than average?(alternatively, more powerful for town or less?) Because in this game, the roles are a tad bit crazy, as you know. Do you think you have a way of determining your role's relative power?

You're starting to catch on! My technique is a bit like poking a nest of rattlesnakes and seeing what comes out.

Quick, someone examine the last game in which NQT played to see if he dropped this much WIFOM! I might just do that myself.

Rolefishing, continued focus on NQT and now trying to get NQT to sacrifice himself, and asking others to do his work for him.

I care about bad reasoning always- if it gets in the way of logical analysis we don't want it, now do we?

Even bad reasoning is a form of information; it leads to knowledge of how the reasoner thinks.

At this point, I unvoted my current target and alluded to another suspect, while engaging Fallacy in a short arguement; at the end of which, Fallacy concluded that they need more evidence.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-snip-

Hey! That's my technique! I admit that in the past few games, I've done a thing like what he did and what I'm doing now, gathering quotes that support my conclusion rather than going through the quotes and coming up with a conclusion based on them. I can say this time, though, that I started gathering the quotes that bothered me before coming up with the conclusion.

I'll note at the bottom of that post, he asks everyone who is least suspected. I'll note again this is asking people to do his work for him.

Assuming NQT's semi-innocence, who else is there to target?

And that is the question. The answer is "everybody else". No, a better question would be "who has acted the scummiest, for the moment?" Assuming NQT's innocence... Then I get to a point of "everyone is equally town." I wish I had more experience for reads. But perhaps... let's throw out some more questions.

Not suspecting anybody is an anti-town trait, at least so I've been taught and voted for over in my early games. At least he's now scum hunting.

You'll notice I'm trying to find a different suspect other than NQT till Jack's inspect(kill?) comes in.

...

4maskwolf, does sparking conversation excuse the WIFOM NQT dropped completely, or are you still going to at least attempt to investigate him a bit?

Something tells me he still really wants to hang onto NQT as a suspect so that if NQT does anything else suspicious he can jump on it and devour it.

Deus's theory that being over-focused on NQT is a newbie tactic is valid enough, too, though. I keep forgetting this is only his second or third game.

Tawarochir: I noticed that while you've been answering questions with quite a bit of regularity, you have yet to actually ask anything, or even go after someone. That is active lurking, the act of looking like you are contributing to the scumhunt when you are not. Why so passive? Do you already know who is scum?

At the risk of being meta, I seem to recall that's Taw's typical day 1 play. Unless he reacts to this in particular I'd let it go until day 2.

Hello, all, I am the replacement for Lidku. I've been following along with the game, but I'll read through the thread again to respond to questions and stuff being posted.

Nice to see I'm not being specifically targeted by NQT for jester tactics this time around.

Hello! Since my question directed at Lidku is no longer valid, I'm going to ask you a new one instead.
If you had three days to live before being crushed by a moon, how would you spend your last days?

In my next post I will include a reads list.

[Tawa]

He never followed up on it because he changed his opinion(whatever it was in the first place.) Now excuse me, I've got some RTD to read(along with other forum games), after which I'll read back in the thread and seek out 4maskwolf's tells.

That doesn't excuse his phrasing at all. I still want to know what this "reason" is.

[flabort]

Most Town
Flabort - Always gonna put myself here.
Deus Asmoth - Good hunting, clear logic, and only somewhat reactive.
Persus13 - NEUTRAL: Not Enough Usable Text to Read, Allegations Lacking
Tiruin - Also pretty reactive without much questions to others, which is another reason it's silly to vote Taw over that. Makes a BIG post once caught up, and then becomes proactive. I'm leaning null.
Teneb - I don't have any objections; mayhaps I'd like to see more out of him, but nothing bad.
NQT - The WIFOM at the start did create lots of conversation, and the reads are pretty complete. Good scum hunting.
Tawarochir - Lots of posts: more than anyone but FoU. As reactive as he is, there are a few questions scattered in and he's trying to provoke more conversation when he answers; and he's not just answering questions to him, but also reacting to other things.
Jack AT - Low activity, but high content in the fourth post. The rest refer to his plan or being busy, but attempted to scum-hunt while not busy.
TheDarkStar - Flying under the radar. Short answers, two relevant posts. Thought provoking, though.
4maskwolf - Mostly reactive, strangely his claims list is believable but then he says he was joking and made it unbelievable as possible. There is NQT's point about his vote and question; his only question.
FallacyofUrist - Keeps coming back to the NQT issue, may just be a novice mistake. OK attempts at scum hunting, even if it's by comparing X to NQT.
Most Scum

[Tawa]

flabort: you acknowledge that it would be silly to vote me over Tiruin, but you put her higher on your list. Why?

[flabort]

Nonono. I meant, she's doing the same thing as you, so it was silly of Teneb to vote you over that.

[Tawa]

And your answer to my question is...?

[flabort]

No; I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

You and Tiruin did the same thing up to a point; and since that thing is what Teneb was voting you for, and yet Tiruin was doing the same thing, it's silly for Teneb to be voting that way.

Why did I put Tiruin over you on my list? Because of things unrelated to that; mostly her big post where she becomes proactive.

[Tawa]

Why did I put Tiruin over you on my list? Because of things unrelated to that; mostly her big post where she becomes proactive.

Ah, thank you. I knew what you were saying, but you'd dodged my question, whether intentionally or not.

[FallacyofUrist]

Everybody: Would we be better off without NQT here? Answering no will likely earn you my suspicion if you don't use good reasoning.

Yes, but not for the reason you'd probably think.

Hm. Even though you've judged your "NQT is scum" reasoning to be false, could you(referring to 4maskwolf) please post it here anyway to help my analysis?
~~~
I'm probably not going to be able to prove myself town for the moment, so I'm going to focus on locating a good target. There's NQT, who has redeemed himself(for the moment) by a bit of rationale and solid posting. Flabort and 4maskwolf bombard me with accusations... Really? From what I've seen you're attacking me for being overly focused on NQT? Only that? Really?, and only seem to have one main reason for the offense. I'll look at their accusations a bit more thoroughly now... okay, that seems to be the main gist of it. Jack A T, seems trustworthy for the moment because of his "test". (If nothing happens tomorrow that resembles a "test", there's going to be a lot of conversation against him, likely justified.) Deus Asmoth and Tawarochir don't seem suspicious, beyond Tawarochir's lack of questioning... despite a later arrival on Deus Asmoth's part he seems a good scum hunter, and same for Tawarochir, despite his lack of large posts.

Some more activity from Tiruin, Teneb, TheDarkStar and Persus13 would be helpful, seeing as lack of posts from them is the thing preventing me from reading them... hm.

4maskwolf and flabort, can you state 3 distinct reasons for voting for me other than my intense focus on NQT? Please justify your votes, sil vous plait.

*&*

[Jack A T]

Exams done.

On Fallacy: Hyperactive newbie with tunnel vision and little idea of how to tactfully go after his targets.  I've seen this sort of thing before.  Doesn't make him scum.  Pretty sure any good scumteam would have told him to calm down and not yell out the equivalent of "NQT SCUM SK MAF-ALLY EVERYTHING" almost every post, or at least have given him some advice on how to present his case.
TDS: Why am I asking about support for my test?  Same reason for most questions: because it tells me things about those answering.

Tawa: Support because NQT's suspicious. Low-effort answer, but consistent with his suspicion of NQT.
Fallacy: Support, detailed reasons given.  Thinks I have an inspect. Answer fits known beliefs about my test and about NQT.  Best/most thoughtful answer of the lot, by quite a bit.
4maskwolf: Neutral due to lack of info.  Bland, but sensible.
TDS: Full support due to lack of knowledge of NQT.  Is voting NQT.
flabort: Wishy-washy neutrality, but thinks I have a kill.  Considering flabort says he wants NQT to live to D2, something's wrong here.
Deus: Neutral due to lack of info.  Bland, but sensible.
Teneb: Support "to a certain extent," due to wanting information about NQT and/or me.  Odd answer.

Aside from player-specific points, it's obvious from the complete lack of opposition that nobody actually believes the spreading infection claim.

flabort: No full read list yet.  Even late D1, I don't have a solid set of reads together yet.  Exam season (finally done!).

I'm afraid I don't understand the questions about the key step I missed. Which actions were noted?

You brought up my response to NQT's response to my claim, and called it baffling.  You never connected that to scumminess.  You brought up how my claim was in the style of NQT's, and declared that suspicious, but never said how.

Anyway, you claim to think that NQT should at least live to D2.  Despite that belief, you take a neutral stance on what you seem to strongly believe is an NK aimed at NQT tonight.  Any reason your pro-NQT-survival stance disappears so quickly?  Why do you not oppose my test when you support NQT's survival past it, flabort? 

Teneb: Why so willing to back my test, a test that sounds an awful lot like a nightkill?  Is NQT worthy of killing to you?

FallacyofUrist, you seem to be very focused on NQT's first post.  Is there anything else you have found suspicious or noteworthy?

4maskwolf: Is this a lynch case on Fallacy, or first and foremost a pressure vote?  Because it feels a lot like a late, near-lethal pressure vote, and one you haven't followed up on.  Without the extension, this would be an awfully tense time for a pressure vote (with about 3 hours left to the pre-extension end of the day now).  What do you think of the extension?  What led you to not request an extension?

Everyone who is voting, why are your votes as they are?

It was placed for your dodging, contributing nothing.  You're not improving much, but you say you've been busy.  Let's see your next post.