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[flabort]

Everyone: That vote spread isn't good.  Votes scattered everywhere, with no cohesive wagons.  A few targets do stand out, though, as getting slightly more attention than others.  What do you think of an NQT lynch?  A TDS lynch?  A Tawarochir lynch?

I feel iffy on an NQT lynch. I'm still not convinced he's scum, despite the day 1 shenanigans.
I'd be OK with a TDS lynch, but since I don't have proof of my own that he's scummy, I don't feel comfortable voting for him right now.
I'd be OK-Dokie-artichokie about a Tawarochir lynch. I was voting him before; I don't feel his play this way is entirely reflective on him as a person, but I do feel it's reflective of his alignment.

[Deus Asmoth]

Deus: Something you say interests me. You claim you're voting for me "based on reasons already laid out" and not because of the fact I made a crappy argument. My findings suggest you never laid out reasons that have anything to do with anything except for my bad argument.

It's a lot easier for me to respond to your points when you quote them instead of linking them. Maybe that's just a personal thing on ymy part, I don't know.

In any case, you linked the post where I gave my reasons for voting for you in the same post that you're claiming I didn't give my reasons for voting for you.

Saying that you're supporting your case is not the same as supporting your case. For example, I think you're scum because you've been tunnelling NQT for the majority of the game, to the point where you spelled your 'guilty until proven innocent' attitude to him out yourself. Your vote on him today was justified with nothing more than WIFOM, and you've been misreading him so often that I think it's reasonably likely that you're just trying to derail or strawman his arguments. Can you provide a summary of the case you have on NQT?

Tunneling NQT. Wanting him dead to the point of making arguments that you now admit make no sense. Your arguments were a symptom of why I was voting for you, not the reason itself.

You voted on me back while I was making my incoherent original argument for NQT being scum and trying to justify your vote using a strawman whose sole tactic was to wait for other people to make arguments for him when he lost,

That's not a strawman. That's exactly what you did.

which is slightly humorous.

Yeah, you've lost me. Why is it humorous, again?

You also haven't actually given a reason for voting me beyond "your argument is bad" and instead dodged the question entirely by saying why you thought my argument was bad using another strawman.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

That is what a strawman is. I am not strawmanning you. You left your vote on NQT and waited for other people to advance the case on him since you were unable to do so yourself. That is why I voted for you. Your arguments had very little to do with it besides being evidence of your determination to get NQT lynched regardless of whether you could come up with any real reason for thinking he was scum besides him pulling a gambit. I'm going to have to take a leaf from your book and ask you to stop trying to strawman me.

[Deus Asmoth]

(PPE: This is why I can't be trusted with multiple tabs)
NQT

I'm not a fan of their play today. Checking just now, all of their posts are about me and I'm not even their target! I find this lack of focus on actually trying to catch scum very suspicious.

Deus, who are the scum team? Can you give me a partial answer?

This is technically true but also misleading. I've been pressing Tawarochir, and since the vast majority of his posts are about you, you tend to come up when I'm examining his logic. I'd prefer to be looking at everyone in greater detail, but I'd also prefer not to be working twelve hours a day since the start of Day 2 and trying to fit this game in on a phone during my breaks. I've been making do with what I have though, and I decided that pursuing one person and questioning other people when I noticed something was more useful to the town than a general pursuit of everyone and not getting to go into detail with anyone.

My guess for the scumteam is Tawa, at least one of Teneb, Tiruin or TDS and a weak scumread on flabort based off this being the second time today that he's voted for someone almost immediately after another player raised suspicion about them, which seems a bit inattentive. Fallacy seems oddly determined to get you lynched, which I've honestly been putting down to newness as a player when considering that I've never seen the player with the most posts being scum. I have a reasonable town read off Jack and a strong town read off you.

Fallacy, I intend to spread my focus as soon as I get some sleep.

flabort, why did you only decide that my focus on Tawa's NQTunnel was suspicious after someone else pointed it out? I've been questioning him for quite some time now.

Jack: I don't think that lynching NQT is a good idea. Lynching Tawarochir is fine by me. Lynching TDS doesn't seem particularly sporting to me at the minute, since he only has one post during day 2 and not a whole lot to go off from day 1 either.

Tawa:

Spoiler: the quote pyramids of Giza (click to show/hide)

I didn't. I addressed several points you raised in it, your new theory was just strikingly similar to your old one.

So, not completely abandoning a theory when somebody makes counterpoints is scummy now, is it?

...what? I saw your new post while I was in the middle of replying to your original one. Your new theory was so similar to the old one that I didn't want to write up an entire new reply to address essentially the same points.

NQT made unnecessary amounts of WIFOM as part of his gambits, which hindered at least two players and led to one player devoting his night action to verifying his claims, which eventually turned out fruitless, in part due to NQT's own actions.

The power that Jack claims to have tried to use on NQT would only have verified one of his claims and seems to have been a fairly weak power in the first place. Unless you think there was a better target for it, why is it so terrible that he used it on NQT? What do you think would have been a reasonable way to perform his gambit if NQT's way was unnecessary?

You've taken this out of context, sir scarecrow salesman.

No, I haven't.

My point is that NQT's gambits eventually wasted a lot of our precious time and resources, and while I acknowledge that he might not have planned for his actions might not have had such an effect, such an "experienced player" should know better than to do something with such a possibility of hindering the town's progress.

How did it hinder the town's progress? The town has literally nothing to work with from the start of day one until people actually provide content to discuss, which NQT's gambit did. Deciding to focus almost exclusively on his gambit rather than what other people were doing is your own choice.

He went so far as to pretend to day kill 4maskwolf, which was entirely uncalled for.

Why?

Can you please include the part about how unnecessarily over-the-top the gambit was next time?

I feel like I should point out that addressing a specific point in a post that I'm quoting the entirety of doesn't automatically remove all context from point that I'm responding to. So why was finding out Mask's reaction to a daykill unnecessary?

Deus, you're coming across like you're defending NQT. Any particular reason why?

Well, I am fairly certain that NQT isn't scum, but the appearance that I'm defending him is purely coincidental. I'm scumhunting you, and most of the time you're talking about NQT, so that's what I have to work with.

[flabort]

flabort, why did you only decide that my focus on Tawa's NQTunnel was suspicious after someone else pointed it out? I've been questioning him for quite some time now.

Jack and Taw have similar avatars to you. I was (admittedly) focused on them, so I wound up skipping over your posts entirely by mistake.

[flabort]

Let's not let this day end in a tie.

Extend

[FallacyofUrist]

Agreed. A no lynch means less information for town. Extend.

[flabort]

And just in case we don't get a third extend before day end, TDS, though I'd rather be voting DA or Taw right now.

Gah, I gotta go, this is my first time cooking rice for myself, and I wish I'd read the instructions beforestarting.

[Deus Asmoth]

flabort, why did you only decide that my focus on Tawa's NQTunnel was suspicious after someone else pointed it out? I've been questioning him for quite some time now.

Jack and Taw have similar avatars to you. I was (admittedly) focused on them, so I wound up skipping over your posts entirely by mistake.

Well that's... a reason. I guess.

[Tawa]

Exyend. I'll make a response later.

[TheDarkStar]

Did that extend the day?

Longish post incoming.

[zombie urist]

Votecount:
Tiruin - Teneb
Teneb -
TheDarkStar - notquitethere, Jack AT, Flabort
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist -
Jack AT -
Tawarochir - Deus Asmoth
Flabort -
notquitethere - Tawarochir, Tiruin

Not voting: FallacyofUrist

Day ends in about 3 hours.
3/4 to extend
0/5 to shorten

[TheDarkStar]

Well then, I'll extend for a better discussion.

[zombie urist]

Day extended to 9 PM PST Wednesday Aug 26 2015. There is 1 more extension available today.

[FallacyofUrist]

... Tiruin and TheDarkStar(and Teneb), I really want to hear fro you.

[TheDarkStar]

NQT:

So what's the initial reaction of BYOP players when I make my weird claims? Ranked in order of suspiciousness, the living players are:

Tiruin: Actively ignores claims until later in the game
TDS: Asks everyone else about claims but doesn't engage with them or me directly. Still voting me at the end of the day
Teneb: Joking dismissal of the ploy.
Jack: Engages with the claims with his own claims
Flabort: Skeptical, accusation of fishing
Deus: Showed an attempt to work out the truth/falsity of the claims
Tawa: Very skeptical of claims
Fallacy: Questions claims intensely

With the above results and my earlier vote count theory combined, I'm pegging the scum team as Tiruin-TDS-Teneb. Teneb's dropping out, Tiruin has now posted. This leaved TheDarkStar (who has yet to post today) as my #1 suspect.

If Tiruin was scummiest, why didn't you vote for her? What does her posting have to do with that?

NQT: What do you think of Deus?

I'm not a fan of their play today. Checking just now, all of their posts are about me and I'm not even their target! I find this lack of focus on actually trying to catch scum very suspicious.

Why is it suspicious if Deus scumhunts you? Player are allowed to reply to more than one other player at a time.

So if you'll recall, this was the vote count after 4mask voted:

Votecount:
Tiruin -
Teneb -
TheDarkStar -
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist - flabort, 4maskwolf
Persus13 -
Jack AT -
Tawarochir - Teneb
4maskwolf - Tawarochir
flabort - Jack AT
notquitethere - TheDarkStar

Not voting: Tiruin, Persus13, FallacyofUrist, Deus Asmoth

My thinking is that scum must not have cared about any of the possible targets being lynched. I'm inclined to believe Jack's claim, because it's fiddly enough to be true (being redirected AND blocked) and his power makes sense for the set-up. I also believe it's not likely a town player would block him. However a part of me just thinks he was just covering for the scum kill. That said, thinking on it some more, scum knew they wouldn't be able to lynch Persus today (as he's too new) so that's a small reason in favour of night killing him.

So my list of suspects today are:

Tiruin
Teneb
TheDarkStar
Deus Asmoth

So for now my vote is on Deus Asmoth who was most keen to tell me what a scum player may or may not decide to do. (And yes this isn't a reason in itself to vote you, I need to go back and see which of you looked worst.)

I'll have replies to people and a more in depth look at players later.

Why did you pick that list of suspects? What do you think the Day 1 votecounts tell us?


Tawarochir:

You know what, I'm sorry to doublepost, but I just needed to comment that your entire vote being based on me backing off is lazy voting in and of itself, Deus. Are you just looking for an excuse to vote?

Why was his vote lazy? It seems like you're just making a reaction-post to his vote (and didn't he FoS you instead of voting?).

Can you provide a summary of the case you have on NQT?

NQT has been acting suspiciously all game and tried to sustain his lies far, far beyond any reasonable point. Two different parties seemingly intervened to stop Jack's test, implying that he's allied with somebody. He seems to have an incredible reliance on theories, without making his own situational judgements.

There's also this little issue here. He claims that his claims were reaction fishing. Why would he need to pull that to reaction fish? There was absolutely no reason for him to gambit in order to reaction fish. His entire play just seems like one big refuge in audacity.

Your argument that NQT might be allied with someone else makes sense. However, why is his gambit scummy? Reaction fishing is essentially scumhunting.

I'm not sure why you're still voting me when there are much better targets.

I really don't know why you're still voting me. Look at half the other players, please.

Really professional of you.

Why are you so evasive?

What do you think of TheDarkStar's play?

Pretty crappy. Right under you in my terms of lynch candidates.

Why?

Tawa: This feels like you're trying to find an excuse to kill off NQT, more than anything else.  There's a disconnect, I think, between your vote and your reasoning.  Let's start with a few questions:
*What exactly does my action being redirected to the NK target say about NQT?
*What alignment do you think NQT is?
*Do you think NQT was the redirector?
*Do you think I am telling the truth about my action and what happened to it?
*What does my action's failure, and my explanation of it, say about me?
*Why would a town-hostile redirector redirect my action to someone they knew was dying?  Keep in mind my strong hints of the action being an NK.

1. I'm not sure what it does--maybe redirects his actions to whoever he nightkills--but the point is that you got redirected to the guy who got killed while targeting NQT, which is most likely not coincidental.
2. Mafia or SK.
3. Yes.
4. I have no reason to not believe you.
5. It means you've either uncovered very strong evidence of NQT being mafia or SK or that you're scum who is inexplicably drawing attention to himself by saying he used an ability on the nightkilled player.
6. To stop you from uncovering any information on anybody.

2/3: Why?
5: Wait what? Either Jack knows that NQT is scum or Jack is scum? Explain please.


flabort:

Everyone: That vote spread isn't good.  Votes scattered everywhere, with no cohesive wagons.  A few targets do stand out, though, as getting slightly more attention than others.  What do you think of an NQT lynch?  A TDS lynch?  A Tawarochir lynch?

I feel iffy on an NQT lynch. I'm still not convinced he's scum, despite the day 1 shenanigans.
I'd be OK with a TDS lynch, but since I don't have proof of my own that he's scummy, I don't feel comfortable voting for him right now.
I'd be OK-Dokie-artichokie about a Tawarochir lynch. I was voting him before; I don't feel his play this way is entirely reflective on him as a person, but I do feel it's reflective of his alignment.

Since you've told us three (and your DA vote makes four) of your reads, would you mind sharing the rest of them?

And just in case we don't get a third extend before day end, TDS, though I'd rather be voting DA or Taw right now.

Gah, I gotta go, this is my first time cooking rice for myself, and I wish I'd read the instructions beforestarting.

Who will you vote for now that the day has been extended?

TheLoneStar TheDarkStar: Who do you find second-most suspicious, and why?

NQT, as I've detailed in this post.

Deus Asmoth:

My guess for the scumteam is Tawa

Why?

at least one of Teneb, Tiruin or TDS

This appears to parrot other people's (especially Jack's) suspicions. It's also a list of all the less-active people. Why do you think one of me, Teneb, or Tiruin are scum?

and a weak scumread on flabort based off this being the second time today that he's voted for someone almost immediately after another player raised suspicion about them, which seems a bit inattentive. Fallacy seems oddly determined to get you lynched, which I've honestly been putting down to newness as a player when considering that I've never seen the player with the most posts being scum. I have a reasonable town read off Jack and a strong town read off you.

Can you explain your town reads?

To summarize your read list (scummiest at the top, least scummy at the bottom):
Tawarochir
Teneb/Tiruin/TDS
flabort
Fallacy
Jack
NQT


FallacyOfUrist:
Why haven't you voted?


Jack A T:

Everyone: That vote spread isn't good.  Votes scattered everywhere, with no cohesive wagons.  A few targets do stand out, though, as getting slightly more attention than others.  What do you think of an NQT lynch?  A TDS lynch?  A Tawarochir lynch?

Why this list of people in particular? Why didn't you mention DA, who also had a vote on him?

TDS: Reads, please.  I want to see opinions on non-NQT things, in particular.

Sure.

Scummiest to least-scummy:

Tawa - Odd arguments that make it look like he wants a NQT lynch rather than a scum lynch. Scum lean.
NQT - Very aggressive play, but it's not necessarily scummy. Slighly scummy, but that might be because of his playing style rather than his scumminess.
Fallacy - He's scumhunting, but he hasn't used his vote. Slightly scummy.
Deus - Said he was suspicious of all the people who aren't very active and has some unanswered things. On the other hand, he does some scumhunting. Slightly scummy to null.
Tiruin - Might have lied about losing her vote, but she has low activity. No read for now.
Teneb - Inactive, no read.
flabort - Claimed a cop power that scum wouldn't have a use for. He also scumhunts a lot. Town lean.
Jack - Most active, claimed an investigative role, and scumhunts a lot. Strong town lean.


PPE:

... Tiruin and TheDarkStar(and Teneb), I really want to hear from you.

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