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[miauw62]

My point is not that you are sexist, but that you are probably basing your opinions off of very hateful and anti-feminist sources.

You're going to need to go into more detail as to why his sources are "hateful" and why they should be held in low regard.

Misandry is a myth and using that term does label you as a sexist, tbh.

Well I guess Samantha Allen

and the SCUM Manifesto are just myths then. Ironically, Samantha Allen is a sexist, and she uses the term "misandry," so you're not entirely wrong.

I understand that you feel that the term is misused, though I would say the same about the term "misogyny."

you found one person, she's probably also a TERF, (though that's just a guess.)

Misogyny is not misused. It does have a power structure to back it up, and it exists in day to day life with long lasting impacts on women. Trivializing that because this one feminist one time said she hated men is absurd.
[/quote]
It was already said that, yes, misandry does not really exist on a cultural level, but that it was still possible for individuals to be misandrist, and then you just continued saying "nope, not that either, misandry is a complete myth"

E: (all emphasis added)

It's perfectly possible for an individual person to be misandrist even if no cultural context for misandry exist. Sure, the consequence won't be as bad for the victim, but it's still totally possible.

the concept of misandry is a myth and its use is often by MRAs and Red-Pillers to complain about any feminist or being friend-zoned and having a women react angrily when they realize the friendship was just a ploy to get in her pants. Plus whatever else those types complain about. The concept as it is used is that "those feminists" are promoting a mass hatred for men.

[Virtz]

This again?

misandry
/ˈmɪsəndrɪ/
noun
1.
hatred of men

This is the definition of misandry in the English language. No mention of power structures. Trying to use an alternate definition that conveniently discludes you from falling under the definition regardless of what you say makes you seem like you're trying to justify your own misandristic views (which I hope is not the case).

[alexandertnt]

Also, I don't know what a TERF is

Trans-exclusionary radical feminism

[Neonivek]

As well Smeeprocket's definition of "Systematic Misandry" is limited to Feminazis or feminists trying to put men down.

Which yeah, doesn't exist.

Most systematic misandry is perpetuated... by men.

For example there was a belief that a man couldn't be a "battered husband" because as a guy, they could only be abused if they let themselves be... and were often discouraged from seeking help.

That is a form of systematic prejudice against men. Which lucky today that personal belief has started to disappear. SURE there is no "Battered Husband" law like there is "Battered Wife", but we do have shelters for men.

I have a rather relaxed attitude when it comes to men's rights mostly because I feel it is being dealt with in a timely manner. I only chime in on it when someone tries to say men have no issues worth caring about or that it is wrong to care about it.

[MonkeyHead]

Frankly, the sooner this thread gets locked, the better.

[VoxieG]

Also, I don't know what a TERF is

Trans-exclusionary radical feminism

I don't really want to give RationalWiki clicks, but I can guess based on what the acronym stands for. I don't see why smee has decided to bring transsexuals into the matter, nor how she could deduce the opinion of Samantha Allen on transsexuals. No matter what the case is, it still seems to be an example of the No True Scotman fallacy.

[alexandertnt]

Why? It has a pretty solid article on them, which will also help explain why smee brought transsexuals into it (spoilers: she diddn't really).

[Tack]

Personally, I think that there's a fine line between pushing for gender equality and subverting femininity.
If you're pushing for your heroines in games to be more masculine- you're part of the problem.

So the real question is, WHY is it a bad thing for anyone to be feminine?
Violence being directed towards women in games is supposed to provoke an instinctual negative reaction in men. Why is that a problem again?

[Glowcat]

I doubt Samantha Allen is a TERF given that a ton of transwomen I follow seem to think she's a-ok.

Here is the full blog post and the extent of her misandry. Her "misandry" is contained to self-preservation and established mistrust of a system that has resulted in reclusion... trying to paint it as worse than it is is an utterly disingenuous move.

i hate men doesn’t mean i hate you. it means i hate your position in this world. it means i’m not obligated to like you. it means i don’t have to talk to you if i don’t want to. it means i get to have my space and i don’t have to dance for you, smile at you, or soothe you. and you can put up with me being wary of you, can’t you, because the world has a fucking red carpet waiting for you wherever you go.

But kneejerk reactions are why these threads go down the shitter I guess.

[Arx]

I wouldn't say she's a misandrist or hates men by the normal understanding based on that quote, actually. I'd say she's just a regular person who is aware they have rights.

So yeah, probably what Glowcat says.

[UXLZ]

What I've found is that people tend to get rather... Attached... To their beliefs. The same often holds true of religion and other things besides, even something as simple and irrelevant as sports. A person gets attached like this because they have massive personal investment in the belief, and will often use any justification they can get their hands on to avoid being 'wrong' (or even just stick their hands in their ears and yell 'na na na na na na, I can't heaaar youu').
They will cling to their beliefs like glaze sticks to clay. If you try to calmly and logically explain where the flaws you find in their beliefs are, then you are 'THE ENEMY!' and everything you say henceforth is dismissed out of hand, because you are personally insulting them, telling them they are terrible people and wrong about everything and should kill themselves... When you're just saying that, in this particular part of the belief, some improvement could be made to make it better.
Such people tend to end up boxing shadows, and react violently to even the slightest notion that some part of their belief is, in some way, imperfect.

This tends to be their perception of 'the other', which can be anyone who doesn't share their exact beliefs and values, or even shares there values and is attempting to explain to them the flaws that those values have.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, not all people are like this, it's simply and observation I've made. People can get like this in pretty much every scenario. It's quite... Unfortunate.

[Vector]

Personally, I think that there's a fine line between pushing for gender equality and subverting femininity.
If you're pushing for your heroines in games to be more masculine- you're part of the problem.

So the real question is, WHY is it a bad thing for anyone to be feminine?
Violence being directed towards women in games is supposed to provoke an instinctual negative reaction in men. Why is that a problem again?

I agree with the first part of it, other than that masculine women tend to be treated badly in real life so systematically banning characters from games based on gender expression seems like a problem. Assuming that femininity has to be part of your female representation is a problem, too, though I would very much like to see more feminine lead characters in games.

In the second part, usually feminine is equated with "can't do shit," in part because of the problems presented in the game, which are typically Masculinity Problems--and that's a problem because it devalues one of the complementary genders, systematically, much as that complementary gender is systematically devalued in society for being "useless."

Violence being directed towards women in games is used to create instinctive negative reactions in men, yeah, but it also assumes that men are the target audience right off the bat. How do women feel about violence being constantly directed toward women in games to advance the plot? To be honest, I personally find it very stressful and kind of weird, like, "Why is someone trying to motivate me by frequently killing people who look like me (okay, nothing like me, look at those breasts, and her hair and makeup are great), usually as they moan like they're in the throes of an orgasm?"

[Erkki]

Personally, I think that there's a fine line between pushing for gender equality and subverting femininity.
If you're pushing for your heroines in games to be more masculine- you're part of the problem.

So the real question is, WHY is it a bad thing for anyone to be feminine?
Violence being directed towards women in games is supposed to provoke an instinctual negative reaction in men. Why is that a problem again?

I agree with the first part of it, other than that masculine women tend to be treated badly in real life so systematically banning characters from games based on gender expression seems like a problem. Assuming that femininity has to be part of your female representation is a problem, too, though I would very much like to see more feminine lead characters in games.

In the second part, usually feminine is equated with "can't do shit," in part because of the problems presented in the game, which are typically Masculinity Problems--and that's a problem because it devalues one of the complementary genders, systematically, much as that complementary gender is systematically devalued in society for being "useless."

Violence being directed towards women in games is used to create instinctive negative reactions in men, yeah, but it also assumes that men are the target audience right off the bat. How do women feel about violence being constantly directed toward women in games to advance the plot? To be honest, I personally find it very stressful and kind of weird, like, "Why is someone trying to motivate me by frequently killing people who look like me (okay, nothing like me, look at those breasts, and her hair and makeup are great), usually as they moan like they're in the throes of an orgasm?"

Uhh... You play some weird games. 

[Sheb]

Code: [Select]

Violence being directed towards women in games is used to create instinctive negative reactions in men, yeah, but it also assumes that men are the target audience right off the bat.
That's a good point Vector.

[UXLZ]

"Why is someone trying to motivate me by frequently killing people who look like me (okay, nothing like me, look at those breasts, and her hair and makeup are great), usually as they moan like they're in the throes of an orgasm?"

What games have you been playing!? O_o
I can't remember any with a death scene like that. It's usually quite tragic.

Games do seem to tend to have emotive deaths of female characters, though there are also ones for guys as well, female cases occur far more regularly. It's probably because games tend to be aimed towards guys specifically, thus making the main character male, thus making the emotive death the 'love interest'... *cough* FF7 *cough*