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[Radio Controlled]

I am aware of all that, but my computer time is very limited these days and often in short bursts, so I was gonna edit in all that (and probably more) to the turn later (hell, I gotta run in a couple minutes, can't even answer all my pm's!). I just wanted to have something in case pw updates suddenly. But thanks for doing my work, I guess, less searching for me!

[Parisbre56]

But aren't they smaller than battlesuits? And carrying very heavy ("heavy" as in "a lot of weight") armour? That's why I'm asking about whether or not there is a quote saying that they are indeed X% stronger. Because all we know is that the technology level got an upgrade, not how that upgrade is used. It could be stronger than an Avatar or it could be weaker than a battlesuit or a bit stronger than a battlesuit but not enough to warrant creating a new weight class for it.

In the absence of a citation and because carrying capacity rarely matters unless someone tries to go above their weight class and carry something heavier, I thought it would be better to just put them in the same category, since they can carry exactly the same kinds of weapons. Plus it seems kind of strange to put the stronger exoskeleton in the armoury but not upgrade other things like the MK3 and the Battlesuit with it. Especially because the Assaultsuit is not in the Armoury for some reason.

Might be just the part of me that wants to put ^{[citation needed]} everywhere speaking, but I thought it was important enough to bring up.

[Nikitian]

Well, there is this thing: PEWPEW Assaultsuit, if it's ever finished and produced, is designed to have Battlesuit-strength as opposed to Assaultsuit-strength (because the valuable space inside the hands is used by PEWs instead of half the endoskeleton). That already, I think, is basis enough for Battlesuits/Assaultsuit strength distinction (because the tinkerers and the Council know and take that difference into consideration). Not that Piecewise is going to remember it, except if we ever see battle-/assaultsuits arm-wrestling


...Which we should totally do, especially now that we have more than one battlesuit running around.

[Parisbre56]

True, but you responded with what the council assumes, not what piecewise thinks. And last I checked the council was in charge of managing prices, not the results of Tinker.

And I don't really understand how the PEWPEW reduces the battlesuit's strength, since it doesn't affect the entirety of the exoskeleton, all it affects is the hands (and probably not even that, maybe just the wrist). It would make much more sense for it to reduce the armour and thus actually increase the strength of the thing due to the coolant tubes that need to run through the suit to transfer the heat from the hand to the rest of the suit to make radiation faster and prevent the hand from melting.

Anyway, not terribly important, so I'll stop now.

[Sean Mirrsen]

True, but you responded with what the council assumes, not what piecewise thinks. And last I checked the council was in charge of managing prices, not the results of Tinker.

And I don't really understand how the PEWPEW reduces the battlesuit's strength, since it doesn't affect the entirety of the exoskeleton, all it affects is the hands (and probably not even that, maybe just the wrist). It would make much more sense for it to reduce the armour and thus actually increase the strength of the thing due to the coolant tubes that need to run through the suit to transfer the heat from the hand to the rest of the suit to make radiation faster and prevent the hand from melting.

Anyway, not terribly important, so I'll stop now.

Not quite correct, the PEWPEW suit replaces the entire internal arm structure with the PEW embedded into it, the forearm housing the weapon itself and the compression chamber, and the upper arm enclosing the heat exchanger that connects into the suit's distributed cooling system. One way or another, the entire arm strength is compromised. Since "lifting strength" is as much a matter of arm strength as the rest of the machine's (the arm being the weakest link in this case), the whole thing is simplified to "suit has half strength" since it's easier and cheaper that way.

Also, the PEWPEW was approved, after much wrestling with the Council and some severe changes to suit variant prices. It costs 23 token.

[Parisbre56]

I don't understand what a heat exchanger is. You mean coolant pump? Because you can easily just put the coolant pumps in the torso of the suit. And what is the distributed cooling mechanism? Doesn't it run coolant through the hexsand layers of the suit, making it something like a car's radiator, thus weakening armour and probably requiring some more safety features to keep the entire thing from emptying if a hit makes it spring a leak?

[Nikitian]

Also, the PEWPEW was approved, after much wrestling with the Council and some severe changes to suit variant prices. It costs 23 token.

It costs 23 tokens against 15-token battlesuits variants and assaultsuit? Well, still slightly better than buying an assaultsuit and a single PEW, I guess. But... I am really, really unsure about the viability of this design at this cost, I guess.

That discussion was a mess, its results were a mess, and that's why I generally assumed that it was inconclusive.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Also, the PEWPEW was approved, after much wrestling with the Council and some severe changes to suit variant prices. It costs 23 token.

It costs 23 tokens against 15-token battlesuits variants and assaultsuit? Well, still slightly better than buying an assaultsuit and a single PEW, I guess. But... I am really, really unsure about the viability of this design at this cost, I guess.

That discussion was a mess, its results were a mess, and that's why I generally assumed that it was inconclusive.

There are no more 15-token variants. There are no more battlesuits, they are replaced by assaultsuits. All feasible BS variants will be applied to the AS, and all variants will be priced separately, according to their power/usefulness. And the AoW now costs 50 token.

I don't understand what a heat exchanger is. You mean coolant pump? Because you can easily just put the coolant pumps in the torso of the suit.

Not a coolant pump. A heat capacitor of sorts, something with high thermal mass and a very direct link to the gun's own heat exchange system. When the PEW fires, it flash-heats to its maximum temperature, and then cools off via the suit's cooling system. It's a reusable equivalent of a collection of coldplates.

And what is the distributed cooling mechanism? Doesn't it run coolant through the hexsand layers of the suit, making it something like a car's radiator, thus weakening armour and probably requiring some more safety features to keep the entire thing from emptying if a hit makes it spring a leak?

It's compartmentalized, like blood vessels, and it's really more of a regular cooling system rather than a hexsand-powered one, specifically not to weaken armor. It's just spread throughout the entire surface instead of being just a few radiators.

[Parisbre56]

I dunno, using unarmoured radiators seems like a bad system to me. Just a few laser rifle shots and it's "bye-bye reusability". Wasn't the whole point of putting it in an assaultsuit so it can use the properties of hexsand to lower cost?

And I don't really see the need for a heat capacitor when a coolant pump seems to be able to do the same better, but I guess that's your choice.

[Nikitian]

Also, the PEWPEW was approved, after much wrestling with the Council and some severe changes to suit variant prices. It costs 23 token.

It costs 23 tokens against 15-token battlesuits variants and assaultsuit? Well, still slightly better than buying an assaultsuit and a single PEW, I guess. But... I am really, really unsure about the viability of this design at this cost, I guess.

That discussion was a mess, its results were a mess, and that's why I generally assumed that it was inconclusive.

There are no more 15-token variants. There are no more battlesuits, they are replaced by assaultsuits. All feasible BS variants will be applied to the AS, and all variants will be priced separately, according to their power/usefulness. And the AoW now costs 50 token.

Yeah, yeah, except nothing of that save for AoW price hike has actually been implemented. As a said, "a mess".
Sorry, I did not want to criticise you or your design, I still think it's brilliant, but the Council and I don't see eye to eye all of the time, and that clusterfuck of discussion is one of the major things on which I cannot agree with them.

At least, the good thing that came out of it is that now the reward for cracking the Doctor's Cipher is 20 tokens larger than it would have been otherwise. 

[Radio Controlled]

For paris: Here pw said doubling exoskeleton strength for assaultsuit: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138720.msg6039802#msg6039802

However, looking a bit further, here he said he wasn't exactly sure about it: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138720.msg6057156#msg6057156

However however, since then the double strength of an AS exoskeleton has been referenced in action posts several times, and PW never objected to it. But that might be due to forgetfulness, maybe, so if you really wanna be sure, we could ask him. Hell, I'll add it to my Hep post.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Oh right, that experiment. Lets roll a black dice.

Huh.

Well, lets do this when I have some time.

All the rest of you should pull up your robot pants and start running.

Why do I have the feeling that the current title of the Heph thread is about to become a lot more relevant? XD

[Parisbre56]

And that's why you run these sorts of experiments on a spaceship, ala Event Horizon. At least then you're left with a spacehulk full of alien artefacts you can explore or shoot out of the sky or plunge into a gas giant.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Apocalypse Lab took too long to build.

Blame whoever said Anton didn't need a High Energy Research lab way back when.

[Radio Controlled]

Wait, this was done on Hephaestus?

What were the safety precautions and failsafes?