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Total Members Voted: 17

[Sergarr]

The thought that this may be interpreted as me condoning rape and mass murder of civilians has not occurred to me in the slightest.

Funny, seeing how you were replying to someone talking precisely about that...

I was replying to this:

Hate... Do I hate Russians? Nope.  My feeling toward Putin and others like him is exactly that:

No one spoke of hatred of the Russians. the feeling experienced by all the Chechens, from the youngest to the oldest, was stronger than hate. It was not hatred, for they did not regard those Russian dogs as human beings, but it was such repulsion, disgust, and perplexity at the senseless cruelty of these creatures, that the desire to exterminate them — like the desire to exterminate rats, poisonous spiders, or wolves — was as natural an instinct as that of self-preservation.

Right from a wonderful piece of early XX century Russian literature. 
_______________

As for Russians, like Knit Tie who are nice guys but fail to admit that their country is a large criminal and finding excuses to feel better. Their excuses do anger me more than  "we invaded you, Muhahaaha" or "all American puppet Ukrainian Nazi should die" kind of behavior but there are no hate. There are a pity.

And then there Russians who support Ukraine, who oppose all that criminal absurd of current regime in their country. Funny how that is mostly Russian  rights, from moderate national democrats to outright Russian Pan-Slavic imperialists. (War in Ukraine created huge division among Russian nationalists)

I don't see rape or mass murder of civilians here, only shitty ubermench-untermench ideology. Do you?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

My quote is about what humans tend to feel when cruel invaders arrive. Do you even know where did I take quote from? 

[Sergarr]

No, and also I did not knew about existence of that "kill germans" propaganda piece until today.

Enlighten me.

[Frumple]

... it's from Tolstoy. His final work.

[Guardian G.I.]

No, and also I did not knew about existence of that "kill germans" propaganda piece until today.

Enlighten me.

The "Kill the German" propaganda piece was written by Ilya Erenburg, if I'm not mistaken.

[Sergarr]

... it's from Tolstoy. His final work.

Huh.

Never heard of it before. Weird, considering I've read plenty of books.

[Sheb]

Hey, I've read it. Nice book, fun to compare with Pushkin's views of the Caucasus.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I think it is my mistake. Out of context it can be easily misinterpreted

Spoiler: the whole chapter from Hadij Murad (click to show/hide)

The aoul which had been destroyed was that in which Hadji Murad had spent the night before he went over to the Russians. Sado and his family had left the aoul on the approach of the Russian detachment, and when he returned he found his saklya in ruins — the roof fallen in, the door and the posts supporting the penthouse burned, and the interior filthy. His son, the handsome bright-eyed boy who had gazed with such ecstasy at Hadji Murad, was brought dead to the mosque on a horse covered with a barka; he had been stabbed in the back with a bayonet. the dignified woman who had served Hadji Murad when he was at the house now stood over her son’s body, her smock torn in front, her withered old breasts exposed, her hair down, and she dug her hails into her face till it bled, and wailed incessantly. Sado, taking a pick-axe and spade, had gone with his relatives to dig a grave for his son. The old grandfather sat by the wall of the ruined saklya cutting a stick and gazing stolidly in front of him. He had only just returned from the apiary. The two stacks of hay there had been burnt, the apricot and cherry trees he had planted and reared were broken and scorched, and worse still all the beehives and bees had been burnt. The wailing of the women and the little children, who cried with their mothers, mingled with the lowing of the hungry cattle for whom there was no food. The bigger children, instead of playing, followed their elders with frightened eyes. The fountain was polluted, evidently on purpose, so that the water could not be used. The mosque was polluted in the same way, and the Mullah and his assistants were cleaning it out. No one spoke of hatred of the Russians. the feeling experienced by all the Chechens, from the youngest to the oldest, was stronger than hate. It was not hatred, for they did not regard those Russian dogs as human beings, but it was such repulsion, disgust, and perplexity at the senseless cruelty of these creatures, that the desire to exterminate them — like the desire to exterminate rats, poisonous spiders, or wolves — was as natural an instinct as that of self-preservation.

The inhabitants of the aoul were confronted by the choice of remaining there and restoring with frightful effort what had been produced with such labor and had been so lightly and senselessly destroyed, facing every moment the possibility of a repetition of what had happened; or to submit to the Russians — contrary to their religion and despite the repulsion and contempt they felt for them. The old men prayed, and unanimously decided to send envoys to Shamil asking him for help. Then they immediately set to work to restore what had been destroyed.

By the way, Sergarr, when you said -"what we did with Chechens was right." Which time did you mean? 19th century? 1944? Chechen wars? All of them?

[Sergarr]

Well I meant the Chechen wars, since for some reason I've went totally blind to the whole "early XX century Russian literature" and thought it was somebody talking about more recent times.

I sorta saw the quote and went totally ape-shit. Shouldn't have done this, but I'm pretty tired right now, and not in the best of my mental conditions.

I should go to sleep now, before I say anything more stupid.

[Knit tie]

I think I'll prophylactically lock the thread for a day to allow everyone to stop misinterpreting one another and cool down.

Sergarr: Don't be a mainiac, read what your opponent is trying to say before you start frothing at the mouth. Rabidly defending a position that nobody has tried to attack does not win you any favor, and doubly so if you insult those who disagree with you and make inflammatory comments in the process.

Ukrainian Ranger: While I understand the purpose of your rhethoric, posting things that can easily be interpreted as a call to kill all Russians as an ethnic group because of their Untermensch qualities, well, posting such things does not help your cause. Besides, history is long enough that, with due effort, you can find dirt on every ethnicity and every nation, including Ukrainians and Ukraine, so using historical wrongdoings (and taken from a work of fiction, no less) to justify modern positions is misguided at best and hypocritical at worst.

[LordSlowpoke]

probably a good idea

things should cool down in the meantime

[Sheb]

Why did you unlock it?

[Knit tie]

Why did you unlock it?

To give some advice to Sergarr and UR to help them stop being so confrontational.

Anyway, lock now until Sunday.

[Knit tie]

Doublepost to inform the forum community that the thread is now unlocked.

[Helgoland]

Damn, I thought I could get some work done since this was locked until Sunday evening...