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[Empiricist]

How about we just put up a poll to gauge player opinion? Options would be "Yay to Greenstorm", "Greenstorm but only with plenty of oversight and warning in advance", "Opt out of Greenstorm", "No to Greenstorm full-stop" and "Replace Greenstorm with a selection of alien death penises so we get to choose what fucks us in the head and hijacks our body and lets us pretentiously debate about which one is better like a bunch of snobbish wine-tasters".

[Xantalos]

Out of curiosity, how'd you end up stumbling into that?

Boredom.

[Unholy_Pariah]

((Apologies in advance if i come off as hostile but Seriously Piecewise, are you kidding me right now?

You knew i was never gonna go for this Green Storm bullshit and your so called solution for everyone hating on it is "deal with it or get the fuck out of my game?" really?

You want shock implants in everyone to counter alien mindfuckery and teamkill hazards, even i accepted their necessity and kept my shock implant on the premise that no player gets control over who gets shocked becasue they abused it so goddamn much.
So then you come out with something even more abusable and dangerous and control of it immediately gets given to every tom dick and harry in the game? the hell man?

Everyone needs a shock implant, nobody gives a shit about the shock implants anyway.
Nobody needs green storm, half the players violently reject it.
Theres a goddamn obvious solution here, just give everyone who wants to opt out of green storm a modified implant that lacks green storm capability.))

((I kind of doubt he did this to piss you off personally.

I don't understand what you mean by "control of it immediately gets given to every tom dick and harry." You think it's bullshit that anyone can just go "STEVE TAKE THE WHEEL!" and perform with perfect competence?

Nobody "needs" a shock implant, but it's a good idea more often than it's a bad idea. Nobody "needs" Green Storm, but it's a good idea more often than it's a bad idea. If anything, I'd say Green Storm has a better lives saved:abuse ratio than shocking, wouldn't you?

"Half the players" consists of like five guys. kj, Nunz, and you I recognize as oddballs, Fish doesn't even seem to understand what it's for. NAV I'm not familiar with. There's like three more that said yes to a vote, but didn't bother until it came up. Almost all of the objections have been in IC form, usually more on "ohgoditsinmybraaaaaaaains" principle than anything else. Most people have no stated opinions on it whatsoever.

Letting anyone who wants to opt out of it is indeed an obvious solution. That doesn't mean it's the best one. Ignoring it knowing it's never going to hurt and might save your life is also an obvious solution, yet you're not jumping up and down over it.))

I know its not meant to be personal, but after what happened on the haebi ship mission you had to expect id be 300% opposed to it.
And the ultimatem of accept it or stop playing, seriously what the fuck? that shit makes it personal.

yes im exaggerating in a bit in my posts, but im am restraining a lot of anger on the subject.
In miyamoto's little briefing on the subject it states that the ability to activate it is given to the individual but requires mission commanders approval... or the mission commander can just activate it on his own regardless of your wishes.
tell me, how is that in any way fair? or even tolerable?
Add in the fact that radio and the other generals can just order the team commander to activate it against your will, it becomes even more unacceptable and abusable.

Everybody does in fact need an implant, word of piecewise is you need one to keep playing ER.
As for having green storm being a good idea, some people dont consider the threat of stat loss and permadeath worth the benefit of Steve assuming direct control.
And as for the ratio of saved:abuse its been used once, hardly a fair pool to draw conclusions from.

Again an exaggeration, but the instant chorus of i want it the fuck out should be telling you something here.
How about this for a principle, i dont want other players forcing their actions and playstyles onto my character.
and before you argue that PW is the one playing my character, stop and ask... who gave PW permission to play for me and destroy my stats? i sure as hell didnt.

Id like to simply ignore it, but as long as its in player hands i cant. becasue simply by existing it runs the risk of my character getting martyred against my will or having my hard earned stat and skill levels taken away because i wasnt given the choice to escape on my own.

[MidnightJaguar]

How about we just put up a poll to gauge player opinion? Options would be "Yay to Greenstorm", "Greenstorm but only with plenty of oversight and warning in advance", "Opt out of Greenstorm", "No to Greenstorm full-stop" and "Replace Greenstorm with a selection of alien death penises so we get to choose what fucks us in the head and hijacks our body and lets us pretentiously debate about which one is better like a bunch of snobbish wine-tasters".

Well, I am partial to the Lurker mindfuck myself, it has a much more geometric taste. I know others might prefer the sound-worm mindfuck, but it is far too acoustic for my taste.

[Toaster]

First Green Storm activation, if you haven't read it.

[Empiricist]

Wait is the White Mask procedure reversible? Because if it is, we could try and tinker up a way to do it on the fly, so when Green Storm kicks in, the body's already vacant. That way, even if the body dies, the character won't suffer stat loss since they're a mask unit, and are still in control of themselves and conscious albeit not in control of their own body. Then later on, the process can be reversed.

Or alternatively, just make the White Mask standard issue. Probably without the possession enhancement though so that EXO-users can't just possess bodies straight off the bat.

[Ozarck]

Was somebody pissed they didn't get to keep control during the AoP fight? I thought everyone was super cool with not dying savagely to an anime-level opponent and that any other outcome would have led to the gruesome demise of themselves and possibly those around them.

Yes, Lenglon / Lyra. I forget if others directly involved were pissed, but it caused a shitstorm in ooc this summer when it happened.

It's part of the setting. I read the beginning of Harry Baldman's "Life Begins at Death" and decided I didn't want to play because I didn't like starting out completely subservient to, not only an evil necromancer, but a petty dick at that. E_R has, since the beginning, been about people completely out of control of their own lives; people who, whether earned or unjustly, have been thrust against their will into servitude, where the alternative to death was insanely risky ventures with insanely dangerous companions under the authority of a machine made of the brains of the successful. Nothing about our characters' lives is their own, in all cases including their bodies - not only every robot, synth and fleshhorror, but every one of us. the Doctor's flesh is in us all, and we cold lose our bodies and souls to him at a whim. This is dystopia. It has been from the start. If loss of control is unsettling and disturbing, then, and I hate to say this, because I like you all, but this isn't the game for you. Because that is a large undercurrent of the game story and mechanics from the beginning.

As for losing hard earned stats, skills, loot, or whatever, hell, player v player death happens as well, and everyone goes "chill bro, just a game." I nearly lost Dester before I had a chance to play him, through player interaction. My first experience in this game was one of complete helplessness, courtesy of U_P. Second experience, following Manuel's greeting. I didn't like it, and you saw my reaction, so I am not condemning anyone for being upset. But, two turns ago, I and all of M23 were shocked unconsccious by the will and say of one player. We recognized it to be a matter of death or life, shrugged it off and went on. Green storm is barely different, expeccially in dealing with such things as new universes, crazy aliens, or unkown sapient artifacts. The difference is that, while unconscious, the meat, synthflesh, or robobody you inhabit is moved about without your say.

I get the resistance. I really do. But this method of control is so thoroughly within the character of ER, that to reject it as a player is to reject a core concept of the game - one i had to accept very early on in order to continue playing - even to get to my first mission.

This has been a wall of opinion. ultimately, if PW says "this isn't working. it's making hte game miserable for people" and tosses it, I'll ride with that, too.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Wait is the White Mask procedure reversible? Because if it is, we could try and tinker up a way to do it on the fly, so when Green Storm kicks in, the body's already vacant. That way, even if the body dies, the character won't suffer stat loss since they're a mask unit, and are still in control of themselves and conscious albeit not in control of their own body.

Bad Emp, bad Emp, no being like Syv.

[kj1225]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

[Empiricist]

Wait actually, if it doesn't have to be a mask shape, we could even just see if we can store people's consciousness into their actual shock implants! Then no one can complain about having those implants, they'd avoid stat loss from Green Storm, no longer decay, and can be used as improvised gauss rounds in hare-brained schemes!

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

Play what? Being mashed into unrecognizable pudding by horrors beyond time and space?!

[kj1225]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

Play what? Being mashed into unrecognizable pudding by horrors beyond time and space?!

Yeah, Call of Cuthulu.

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

Play what? Being mashed into unrecognizable pudding by horrors beyond time and space?!

Yeah, Call of Cuthulu.

B...
'Touche.

[Empiricist]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

That's why I'm advocating prior-warning before deployment being mandatory. Because it means that it becomes possible to exercise control over the situation, set yourself up and position yourself so that you force the game to take a path you want, even if you aren't directly controlling yourself for that turn.

[Gentlefish]

Wall of text

Yes, but there's a difference in that at least with those things you can control your helplessness, this is the equivalent of a game forcing you down a certain path and you not even getting to play it.

I mean, it's not a railroad. Even without Green Storm, Steve really could just fry your brain to death. Like, perma-death. Poof, gone. And you're complaining now that the implant is a problem? That's a little silly. And, over the course of its existence (The entire goddamn game) it has been used a total of one time. To destroy a creature two AoW's can't kill. And, I believe, it was requested that Steve do something to help kill that goddamn thing, so it was asked for, in a sense.