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[Toaster]

Toaster: If people were bussed--and their actions were successful on their targets, will they get a 'success' result despite hitting their not-original-target?

Yes.  You are not told if you are bussed.

[+!!scientist!!+]

*reads on and o-*
HOLD IT.

Also, if you're vig why has the mafia not killed anyone yet? As I said before, I didn't act last night, Pufferfish was so unresponsive he didn't send a PM.

...wat

Also on the previous note: I have no idea :I You can suspect me as the mafia, and I've no defense against it. The only thing I can say is to put yourself in a vig's shoes if that's the case and see what a conundrum it is. Hypothetical question much?

WAITWATAWTI

Also, if you're vig why has the mafia not killed anyone yet? As I said before, I didn't act last night, Pufferfish was so unresponsive he didn't send a PM.

The heck is the bolded part scientist?!

Ok, when I said last night, I meant the night before this last night (my dumb brain.) the night when I wasn't playing, and pufferfish was supposed to be playing, but wasn't. Hope that clears that part up, as I revealed that I did nothing that night when Toonyman lied about knowing what I did during the night. As for the second part, I was asking you to explain what you think happened last night that explains how you targeted Hapah, I tried to jail you, and the scum are still active, and only Hapah ended up dead. At the time of the last post, the only way I saw it being possible that you were telling the truth was if the scum had been completely inactive during the two nights, which didn't make sense. In the end, I figured it out how it could have worked, but it still seems like an unlikely scenario to me.

If it's just a "semantic slip" you're worried about, then the reasoning behind the yet is that, no matter what we do today, as there are still two scum left (the rules make this certain) they'll still have a chance to kill, and as I said before I thought you were trying to suggest the scum hadn't targeted anyone during the first two nights.

on a side note, this entire situation confuses me. Before this happened, I saw no reason to think you were scum, I still think there's about a 60% chance that the scum remaining are ToonyMan and Native Foreigner, all the major reasons for which I've already mentioned, but this scenario with you claiming something that isn't possible with the way I see this game going is confusing my entire view of what's going on. My worst fear is that you're telling the truth, and some bus driver or the JOAT (as the scumbag can also roleblock) is sitting back and laughing maniacally at all the confusion he's caused.


Elephant parade: actually, 4 and 3 are the most likely numbers of town powerroles, if you look at the statistics, and they're equally likely.


((time to go to sleep, maybe mafia will make more sense in the morning.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

HAHAHAHAHA, my best joke yet!

))

[Tiruin]

At the time of the last post, the only way I saw it being possible that you were telling the truth was if the scum had been completely inactive during the two nights, which didn't make sense. In the end, I figured it out how it could have worked, but it still seems like an unlikely scenario to me.

I'd guess JOAT or someone blocked them or they hit someone protected.

As for the second part, I was asking you to explain what you think happened last night that explains how you targeted Hapah, I tried to jail you, and the scum are still active, and only Hapah ended up dead.

...I clicked My Messages, then scrolled to Toaster's PM, then clicked Reply. Then I typed out [Hapah D:<] and then pressed Reply. That's how I targeted Hapah. >_>

Joking aside, I still have to wait for your reply on picking me.

on a side note, this entire situation confuses me. Before this happened, I saw no reason to think you were scum, I still think there's about a 60% chance that the scum remaining are ToonyMan and Native Foreigner, all the major reasons for which I've already mentioned, but this scenario with you claiming something that isn't possible with the way I see this game going is confusing my entire view of what's going on. My worst fear is that you're telling the truth, and some bus driver or the JOAT (as the scumbag can also roleblock) is sitting back and laughing maniacally at all the confusion he's caused.

Yeah? Know how afraid I am. Knowing such and such--the scum can intuit any kinda [other killer], and me checking back on why peoples think SK (I doubt it, unless someone else killed alongside me @N1 and mafia didn't), and then seeing TDS' own...thing?

Mh.

Before this happened, I saw no reason to think you were scum

..."No" reason?

I still think there's about a 60% chance that the scum remaining are ToonyMan and Native Foreigner, all the major reasons for which I've already mentioned

Link please.
Weirdly, Toony's piecing you and I together, and you link Toony and NF.
Meh?
Toony: Reasons please.

Anyway, checked back on TDS...My thoughts, more scrambled than not come as: he's a mess of leads. Probably took a risky gamble to claim vig, to probably out the real one on a counterclaim and save his life? That means the mafia know there's another killer since before then.

Bleh, thoughts later. Other priorities come now. PFP

1. Elephant Parade
3. Tiruin [E]
5. Superblackcat [E]
6. +!!scientist!!+
9. makeinu [E]
11. ToonyMan [E]
12. NativeForeigner

Actually, there might be only one scum left.  I think we have enough people who have role flipped that we can start piecing together what sort of set-up we generated.

Mh? Addendum, Toony: How are there 1 scum left...when there's 3 Mafia?
Calculated (minimum):
TTT
H
K

And the roles now add:
K
P
...Meaning the range of T's are from 3-5. With a 2/3 forecast of SK, but also a 2/3 forecast of JOAT (this probably explains the missing MK unless anyone else speaks up--if no massclaim is done, then I'd propose claims on who 'failed' last night. Anyone?

Spoiler: What? This isn't the weather, Tiruin. (click to show/hide)

TTTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Serial Killer

TTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT (Roleblock, Ninja Kill, Strongman Kill)

TTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT, Serial Killer

...
Thoughts about a massclaim?
Given a 7 player list left, and assuming a third-party just for worst case scenarios, I'm putting 2 scum left (13 player game and all), leaving a 1:4:2 at best.
Meaning LYLO. If there is no SK (doubtful, but wavering now that the calcs came in), we're at a 5:2, MYLO.


...
ToonyMan

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, if we lynch wrong today it's most likely going to be lylo.  I highly doubt there's an SK.  That means there's two scum left.

At day end I did not think Makeinu or Hapah were scum at all.  I still don't think Makeinu is mafia, definitely.

My picks for last two scum are Tiruin and +!!scientist!!+.  What say you?

Actually, there might be only one scum left.  I think we have enough people who have role flipped that we can start piecing together what sort of set-up we generated.

The roles we know exist:

Hider
Townie
Townie
Townie
Vengeful
Mafia Goon

There are also seven hidden roles.  I will keep my role hidden for now.

What we can deduce from this (using this page):

We rolled at least one H and one K.  Because the only mafia that flipped is a goon this gives us no information on the number of Ts.

This means out of the seven letters rolled, one is an H and one is a K.  We could list the possibilities of what scum team we're up against, but the the ones with six Ts and seven Ts are now impossible.

This means that a two mafia scum team (six Ts) is impossible.  Which means there has to be at least two scum left and maybe an SK (which I doubt).

So I see continuous assumptions. What do you believe now, exactly? Shift from 2-1-2 in mafia count...
I find it curious that you speculate more on these numbers without giving why/how your picks are formulated.

[Tiruin]

Cont. [ToonyMan]
Here's a tiny note on TDS, which was a factor on why I thought TDS was being easy-targeted (bussed), but I'm quite unsure on you.

I will also be role-claiming tonight if I am the lynch vote.

Why were you reluctant to do it now?
^{Also hope you're doing ok in your new home.}

[makeinu]

*innocently logs in to see the day has started* Yay!

*reads*  :|

*re-reads* :|

*head asplodes*

WHARGLE BARGLE!!! *strings together curse words in THAT way as only a sailor can*

*bangs head on desk*

Vig!!! Grahhhhh!!!!

*updates spreadsheet while muttering curses*

As IF the day end whateverthefuckthatwas didn't already leave me stewing in my own whatthefuckTiruin!! all weekend long.

This is going to take a minute to process. And by minute, I mean, GRAAAAAHHHHH!!!

[Tiruin]

Do you wish to ask why I was adamant on the Vig stuff? :I

[makeinu]

And now I remembered what was missing:

makeinu: Personal idea of Vigilantes?

I'm pretty DAMN sure everyone here knows how I feel about Vigilantes, Tiruin. Shall I link the damn postwalls?

And you just validated my feelings on them.

Assuming, of course, that I believe your fucking story, and don't assume you're scum-claiming Vigilante to cover your ass because you got caught out last night.

Shitfuck. I haven't .... whargle bargle...

More. Soon. Read. Process. Bah.

[Tiruin]

>_>

Cue the incoming process of bias. Woohoo, I love stereotypes. I love them so much. Go ahead, hit me on it. Hit me with all your rage.

C'mon. Blame me for their deaths--isn't that what you'd do? HIT ME THEN.

Or state your thoughts. Whatever. I'm here and listening.

Assuming, of course, that I believe your fucking story, and don't assume you're scum-claiming Vigilante to cover your ass because you got caught out last night.

Yeah, right. Me as scum claiming after TDS did. While that may be plausible, I wasn't even there when TDS did what he did.
I play the RL card, because that's what held me up in everything. EVERYTHING.
What brings you to the note of being 'caught out last night'?

_{And now I feel somewhat personally attacked. >_>}

[makeinu]

Blame you for their deaths?

YOU did that! You claimed zu's death! You claimed Hapah's death! I don't have to blame you for shit!

My thoughts are ... a mess. I want to quotestripe the hell out some damn wall of text just from the few hours today's been open, not even getting into whatever  that was yesterday (game yesterday) with the on-again-off-again vote for TDS that turned into, in the end, a vote for Hapah! For reasons I still can't comprehend.

Let's see, in brief, because I'm still processing all of the counter-claims here.

You claim Hapah's death was at your hands. No one put that on you.

scientist claims he blocked you, and so you couldn't have killed Hapah.

Let's make a tree of dbfynerw6 u w5 bargle!

1) Your role-claim is correct, and you Vigged him, like the damn loose cannon Vigs always are! And scientist is lying about pulling the JK card on you.
2) You're lying, are either Mafia JOAT or SK, and pulled a Strongman kill last night.
3) Both of you are lying entirely.
4) You're lying, scientist is not, and the mafia got Hapah last night.

Or some other possibility I'm missing because I can't think straight.

Ya wanna know what I really think?

Yeah. So do I. When I figure it out, I'll let you know.

You were my top candidate for the next scum pick after that vote thing with TDS and Hapah yesterday, after TDS flipped scum. Aaaaand then, Hapah dies in the night. That's just tooooo fucking convenient.

Even if you are telling the truth, Tiruin, then two of five dead townies this game lay at your feet, by your own claims. Possibly three, depending on where Persus hid N1.

Unless you'd have me believe in fairy tales, that all the killers targeted the same targets every night, that the mafia kill perfectly overlaps your kill claims, and same for the damn SK if it actually exists.

[makeinu]

_{And now I feel somewhat personally attacked. >_>}

It's not personal. We're all good friends outside of mafia.

[makeinu]

I have to sleep now. I'm sure I'll have cray-cray dreams about this...

[Tiruin]

My thoughts are ... a mess. I want to quotestripe the hell out some damn wall of text just from the few hours today's been open, not even getting into whatever  that was yesterday (game yesterday) with the on-again-off-again vote for TDS that turned into, in the end, a vote for Hapah! For reasons I still can't comprehend.

...
Ok. I quit for the day.

If ANYONE can't even see what I mentioned IN A SPOILER about Hapah, then fine. So be it.

I like being attacked for legit reasons. I hate being attacked, and thus feel persecuted, for reasons of total and stupid ignorance by the aggressors.

Hey, nobody commented on that thing. That thing I made. The subtle slip UI did about the time. The thing he changed later on in addressing Caz. Nobody's talking about it. Nobody.
Nobody.

You were my top candidate for the next scum pick after that vote thing with TDS and Hapah yesterday, after TDS flipped scum. Aaaaand then, Hapah dies in the night. That's just tooooo fucking convenient.

Yeah.

HOW.

Nobody explains how. They just explain and attack.

Never why. Never how. Sans why. Sans how.

I love being attacked for nothing!

I LOVE IT SO MUCH IT HURTS.

Let's see, in brief, because I'm still processing all of the counter-claims here.

You claim Hapah's death was at your hands. No one put that on you.

scientist claims he blocked you, and so you couldn't have killed Hapah.

Let's make a tree of dbfynerw6 u w5 bargle!

1) Your role-claim is correct, and you Vigged him, like the damn loose cannon Vigs always are! And scientist is lying about pulling the JK card on you.
2) You're lying, are either Mafia JOAT or SK, and pulled a Strongman kill last night.
3) Both of you are lying entirely.
4) You're lying, scientist is not, and the mafia got Hapah last night.

And #4 proves you can't think straight at all! Because why the heck would I be lying--next, why the heck did I claim in the first place.
"O NO WIFOM."
"Oh no. COMMON SENSE."

Even if you are telling the truth, Tiruin, then two of five dead townies this game lay at your feet, by your own claims. Possibly three, depending on where Persus hid N1.

Wow bloody hell. This is the best attack I've gotten yet. I'm being blamed for the death of townies-even when I didn't know they were damned town.
I got nothing from Hapah.
I decided on a hard choice on ZU.

Woohoo!

Yeah I'm out.

I have to sleep now. I'm sure I'll have cray-cray dreams about this...

Sleep well. Stop being a jerk. Sorry. But sleep well.

[Tiruin]

Let's see, in brief, because I'm still processing all of the counter-claims here.

Also what bloody counterclaims?

Toony's not claiming.
NF stays silent
SBC isn't talking-hasn't posted, isn't here.
Same goes for EP.
You aren't talking, nor giving thoughts about claiming. Just giving me s*** about what I did. Nothing else. Nothing even logical.

Just attacking me for what I've done--instead of why I did what I've done. That would be fine, at least.

scientist claimed Jailkeep, someone I believe is town given the timing and the deal.
I claimed vigilante, unable to appear when TDS did it.

You tell me how logical it is for me to claim Vig. And 'WIFOM' is not an answer--YOU TELL ME HOW THAT MADE SENSE TO YOU.

It's pretty obvious that scientist contradict's my own. Why I asked for anyone who did the bus--I didn't see any Mafia kill.

You can RATIONALIZE that I AM EITHER MAFIA OR A VIG. Do I have the bravery to do it? Maybe. Do I have the audacity to claim vig and hope whatever comes to bring it forth? Sure.

I bloody claimed to avoid any disparity between time, and any real massclaim later on. So go hang me for it! End me out of this game if that's the kind of attack I receive.

Of ALL arguments. You bring up the worst. "These people's blood lie on your hands. YOU ARE AT FAULT."

Oh huh. Like I bloody knew they were town. "AH, WIFOM!"

In which I'll do nothing but shake my head and spit in your general direction. That's a nice sense of justice. Of scumhunting.

Even if you are telling the truth, Tiruin, then two of five dead townies this game lay at your feet, by your own claims. Possibly three, depending on where Persus hid N1.

Then explain the lacking MafiaKill to me! Go ahead! I've did MY work.

I've just received crap for it. But I'd like to hear yours.

[makeinu]

No, you're right, I'm being jerky. That's a lot, and I really need to read it all.

But... Vigilante is a mafia trigger word for me. Plus, questions.

What spoiler about Hapah? The only spoiler I see from you is about ToonyMan. The only Hapah stuff I see is links I haven't chanced to reread.

And what slip UI made about Caz?

Also, how is that not an explanation as to why my thinking on you was "scum" as of yesterday?

You flip-flopped all day on the TDS vote. At the last possible instant, or nearly so, you suddenly went all gangbusters on the idea people were taking the easy lynch and tossed suspicion on Hapah, and your vote! And all I'm left thinking is "That's really ... odd. Even for Tiruin."

And then TDS flips scum. And I'm all "Yay! Waitaminnit ... Tiruin ... " stewstewstew

And then Hapah is killed. And I'm all "Waitaminnit ... "

And then!, you're all "I kilt Hapah, the bastich, see? Onaccounna how he made me all suspicious like, see? Cause I'm the Vig, see? That's what we crazy bastiches do! We kills peoples we don't like, and screw due process, see?"

_{You have to mentally read that in an Edward G Robinson voice for proper effect. You really do. It's thematic and funny.}

And then I'm all like " ... "

And then!! you claim zu's kill as well!!! And there was already doubt about whether Persus was targeted or hid behind zu, and ... and ... and ... Ya see?

PPE: in short, I'm not sure I believe your Vig claim. I'm not sure I believe scientist's JK claim either, but there's an explanation that fits the facts somewhere there. Strongman SK or JOAT kill last night leaves his claim in play, invalidates yours. Exactly overlapping mafia kills with your claimed kills coincidentally allows both claims to stand; I don't trust coincidences. At all. You killing zu, Persus not hiding, mafia targeting Persus explains N1, and validates your claim at least to the extent that it means you killed zu. Explains the deaths N1 at least as well as the alternate theory, that because Hider, both were got by the same killer.

But ...

Dammit. Brain no work. Too many data to process. Wow. So claims. Such confusing.

[Tiruin]

What spoiler about Hapah? The only spoiler I see from you is about ToonyMan. The only Hapah stuff I see is links I haven't chanced to reread.

And what slip UI made about Caz?

...
...
You didn't see it?
I linked it.
I..
nobody saw it?
...

And then!! you claim zu's kill as well!!! And there was already doubt about whether Persus was targeted or hid behind zu, and ... and ... and ... Ya see?

I doubt it because I'm trying to interpolate (or whatever) Persus! It's a guess. I doubt that Persus would choose to hide under ZU, for reasons I dunno but that's my guess.
And YES I claim ZU's kill, because I killed him! I gave my stuffs about that an-
..
Who gave the doubt before me on Persus being targeted by ZU? _{My mind is fuzzy from cowering and feeling hurt because bad stuffs from past.}
Ugh wait let me dig it up.