Alright! Claim up humans. D:<
But before a simple question.
makeinu, your stuffs are below my claim. I did not read the new-day posts because I did this overnight (and damn you net.)Next of all: Arghghghgnet.
First and foremost:
I am the Vigilante. Did anyone bus last night?Yeah TDS, READ MY LIPS. I was all giggety when I saw day end, and couldn't act or speak (because woohoo, Toaster works in my am :I and bad net)
Next, targets and reasons:
>
N1-D2: Notice that I seemingly kept a low profile? Yeah, that's because I killed ZU.While I did say before that a point on his townyness was on how he behaved prior to day end, I was..more undecided than not on how I should treat this matter. ZU's case was the selling point of my D1 work, and I couldn't let it lie that I was more vague than scum-read. I chose to gamble on it and check-check on previous instances where ZU was scum (sorry for browsing your post profile >_>) and compared results. It still came out as a blur. For a scummy ZU, he didn't seem like so other than him missing questions--I don't like my questions missed, even though I did detail it in person.
Though, I guess emotions also poked me on the point (..Honestly, playing in another game
does seem to be taking a toll when its in the question-answer thing. I'm picky on communication) given how I tried to reiterate the 'answer my queries' thing at him.
His brevity didn't help me at all, so I chose the best bet.
>
N2: I killed Hapah.Whole case. I am biased against brevity (or...fogged clarity) in posts, and
these notes didn't help my belief on him.
I was anxious and kept watch on D2~ on if anyone poked and pointed at the NK, and the hider-business (thrice save my hide that there was a hider, and while I cannot back this up: I doubt Persus hid behind ZU.) meaning that I was looking for minor hints on who would discuss the subtleties of the kill (ie scum seeing another kill; reasoning vig/probably SK? Plausible)
...
...
Though Hapah had snuck in late
Turns out he suffered the same fate
He got knocked out
Sent home to pout
Thrown back to the starting gate
Hapah has been killed! He was a Townie. (Town)
Toaster: I note that you didn't do a roleflip, you just gave alignment.
This doesn't seem the same as what you did here on what kinda townie he is. (..I mean, Vanilla..? :I)
ToonyManSo, if we lynch wrong today it's most likely going to be lylo. I highly doubt there's an SK. That means there's two scum left.
At day end I did not think Makeinu or Hapah were scum at all. I still don't think Makeinu is mafia, definitely.
My picks for last two scum are Tiruin and +!!scientist!!+. What say you?
I like how you don't detail your ideas again!
I like how 'you don't think Hapah is scum because x reasons'
I like how you state all of these without giving the aforementioned intangible "why" that'll most probably pop up later!
Why do you doubt there's a SK.
Thoughts on the NKs?
That means there's two scum left.
What does this mean?
Why didn't you think those two are scum? And with emphasis on 'mafia'?
What's up, ToonyMan.
I don't like your subtle plan.
It is short and brief.
Haiku for you.
makeinuMeow~
Tiruin:
makeinu is staying quite along on the green-side, moreso against the audience, the most on that zone given his play and his words. I find little discrepancy with how he acts (...despite some drama... :I )in how it conforms to scumplay--no deviations in how words are put, nor do I see any withheld commentaries or verbal sleights. He's drawing quite well in my eyes, and I am pleased with his aesthetics.
Though I'd love to see that alleged spreadsheet there.
{snip}
makeinu: Your spreadsheet. I believe that's a list of notes and all. Why have you not caught onto this find? What is your spreadsheet about, and what does it concern? Vote patterns? Because if you could make a note for me (thanks :>) or scientist's own confusion on said spreadsheet, (yeah I read your reply to him in stereotypical russian..it's quite amusing and nice in that accented english).
I'd like to hear from you.
What about me exactly puts me on your green-side, by which I read that you are leaning not-scum? And why the FoS over the spreadsheet? You take notes, right? I assume most experienced players do. Though, we know the Cat doesn't, apparently.
Anyway, if you want to look, fine, it's here. It's my personal tracker, trimmed from a tool I use as a game mod. I've kept notes of who voted for whom, when, and a guess/approximation at why, plus unvotes, replaces, and kills.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZU_6NHN6M7WNPAO_J7Ug5NytnKGIjV0Q9WUqrc4OwZU/edit?usp=sharing
There's a fair number of question marks here and there, and I do revise notes as I reread stuff. And I haven't updated the reads on my suspect list in a hot minute.
PPE: Gorramit! You're doing that thing again! You're becoming flighty, Tiruin...
You guys must look and see with your own eyes. TDS may be doing stoopid antics, and may have done many things--however I attribute, and why I'm hanging on him and his antics, is that I feel that he's taking a personal field into the matter. IRL, nobody would deny logic and correct reasoning--TDS is acting cornered, defensive and outright stupid illogical in the way that he prizes HIMSELF as too much rather than think about the team.
As his IC, previously, I am deeply ashamed. Both in myself and how I taught. Him? I'd rather attribute his behavior in this game towards how his actions have proven him. Let no dishonor come to him other than how he acted here--HOWEVER I WILL ACTIVELY DISPUTE HIS LYNCH RIGHT DAMN NOW.
If anyone has objections. Tell me. Because I'm quite suspicious of those who take him as the 'easy' lynch. I tire of the conventional scumtells, however I also tire of scum riding the waves in trying to hang a man--who's own personal defense cannot stay by his own words. He's flailing and lying and doing ALL NO U in order to save his skin.
Logical conclusion: Marginally useless town. If scum, then that's a WONDERFUL bus. If SK, then...I don't even. Least probable thought here.
The hell makes you think I'm not looking with my own eyes? I can read, take notes, make correlations, eliminate contradictions. TDS just looks scummy as hell right now. And it's because of his "defensive and outright stupid illogical" reactions to people that give that impression.
He may indeed not be scum, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss any vote on him as band-wagoning or busing. Not without backing, bucko. You've been arguing more than anyone, longer than anyone, wordier than anyone, that TDS is scummy, vote-flopping on him like a fish out of water does, and for the very reasons that you decry above. That he's flailing, and lying, and caving under questioning to change his vote, and appealing to emotion, and deflecting, and all that. Reasons you've attacked him for, repeatedly.
And now, all of a sudden, it's scum just riding in for an "easy lynch"? The hell, no, the fuck, Tiruin?
Because others finally come to the conclusion that he's scum, you suddenly turn about and "he's not" on us? He's "logically" "marginally useless town"? Or he's being bused to the lynch.
Good gobs, how many scum do you think we have here?
Or is this vain-glory speaking? You take some measure of responsibility for his play because you IC'd a game he was in, and can't stand the thought that his shite play is somehow your fault, and so you don't want to see him lynched for said shite play. Is that it?
Because that's a crap reason. If you'd "rather attribute his behavior in this game towards how his actions have proven him" and truly feel that we should "[l]et no dishonor come to him other than how he acted here", then by gum, fucking do that. That, above? That's the worst use of meta in scum-hunting I've ever seen.
First of all: I find your assertivism strange in this kind of wording. Assumptions abound, my dear? This...is interesting.
Secondly: I'd like to guess you're scumhunting here, but that is refuted by the point that you're somehow not picking at my note on Hapah.
And yes, timezones + bad net = unhappy Tiruin and not answered question
ANYWAY. To why I did what I did:
I was making up those reads and cross-matching to my notes on a re-read, and I admit-the thing in the
other game on how TDS ticks didn't help at all. TDS, for all instances, was a veil of bad play. Brevity, Accusations, and that one single note of him decrying 'SOMEONE INVESTIGATE TIROONE' really messed up my scummeter.
I couldn't find it in good conscience to see scum being as gall-y as that, though there was no backing evidence, I had the feeling that he was playing...town-y. Bad play as town, but...mostly in the grey zone.
Yea, stuff like Worse Things (Glyph's Mafia) also somehow affected my unconscious(?) or deep thinking on the matter. How can you judge a man who's ripping the ol' scumhunting bible in two and blaspheming on the ashes, when he's town?
Cue me doing that re-read and finding the Hapah pick. So in the scale of adversity on 'someone who CAN actually be town but plays damned scummy (of note, he put effort...and all that in D2 >_>)' compared to 'subtlety that a dead man can't defend'...
I believe you can see my reasoning in the 'Reason Claim' above.
Now back to what you say there makeinu, as everything above is 'why I "shifted" vote to Hapah'.
What about me exactly puts me on your green-side, by which I read that you are leaning not-scum? And why the FoS over the spreadsheet? You take notes, right? I assume most experienced players do. Though, we know the Cat doesn't, apparently.
> FoS due to the discrepancy between votes on UI/Caz. Judging by what you said about me and your 'eraser', I took it in turn that you were vote-tracking yourself!
So cue my fingering you when I noticed
that, when you stated that you were 'keeping notes' yourself, implied.
> Green-side due to how you do concise work and make it formally organized. It's more of a nulltell, but the greenside is more on an 'how would makeinu reply if I said x in a positive light?'
The flipside is how you've been behaving in days prior to now. Your posts (for they are many and even I can't link all them tabs :I) do not seem of malice to me, or of hidden or shrouded meaning. I cannot detect, even in intuition, any kind of hint on you--you've been staying on my gray-dar all this game, but have been performing well in empirical data.
> What cat? I'm a cat.
Nyan~
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZU_6NHN6M7WNPAO_J7Ug5NytnKGIjV0Q9WUqrc4OwZU/edit?usp=sharing
I can't google docs. >_>
Err, any way to better link this?
The hell makes you think I'm not looking with my own eyes? I can read, take notes, make correlations, eliminate contradictions. TDS just looks scummy as hell right now. And it's because of his "defensive and outright stupid illogical" reactions to people that give that impression.
*points at stuffs on erasers above*
But yeah. These things? They really kicked me. He's being outright stupid! But he also did that, AS TOWN (this is me forwarding one facet of my thoughts when I was doing my notes. And I compared every. Damn. Single piece of post taken. Sure, there are points that he's calm, but I put that at a level note given how he explained part of himself. RL stuffs? Yeah.)
Point being: I switched to unconventional data, if I used my previous basis on judgement, I'd always see TDS as scum. Ever. Given his play.
He may indeed not be scum, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss any vote on him as band-wagoning or busing. Not without backing, bucko. You've been arguing more than anyone, longer than anyone, wordier than anyone, that TDS is scummy, vote-flopping on him like a fish out of water does, and for the very reasons that you decry above. That he's flailing, and lying, and caving under questioning to change his vote, and appealing to emotion, and deflecting, and all that. Reasons you've attacked him for, repeatedly.
Wherein 'any' pertains to...oh, quite everyone at a single moment in time? Ok, not actually everyone-the
majority, however, would work.
I'll pull a page from Toaster,
post-my-shift-count. I looked into the reasons why people were voting people, and it comes up that the majority poke on similar instances for reasons of vote--somehow, none poked on the deviation between me and him (hey, we dueled. Guys? Anyone? NOPE.)
I backed up my statements, but made them as a generality--
why do you feel touchy?Also bucko is mostly a..male-thing now that I noticed. Sorry for being gender-specific :XAnd yes, I've been arguing more than everyone. Think of this as a battle. A...
duel. One sees the other and analyzes them. Every minute detail, from hair to toe, from detail of cloth to any hidden spots for weapons. A feint, a sleight. Any kind of bit that gives an impression of true aggression, or a similar investigator (town). Can you reflect that far? I did, and I have attacked him on those points. He ignored many, many,
many points. So I believe anyone can conclude one thing: Tiruin can be confused by bad play. >_>
But really:
I'm curious as to why you use the length of argument as a basis there, makeinu. It doesn't seem to have any relation to our context here. Or did you want to know why I thought what I thought?
And now, all of a sudden, it's scum just riding in for an "easy lynch"? The hell, no, the fuck, Tiruin?
Erh? Ok..? If I did make it sound like that was a primary point on why I shifted, I apologize for my wording (I assumed people got my points if they looked back and all) but that was an idea on what was happening: TDS was an
easy target. People could hop on and just hold up Ye Ol' ScumhuntingBible and excommunicate TDS for his antics. What I was saying-but..now that I see it, failed to directly say-that
there are reasons behind the votes and people should look at that instead!Because others finally come to the conclusion that he's scum, you suddenly turn about and "he's not" on us? He's "logically" "marginally useless town"? Or he's being bused to the lynch.
...UI/Hapah was scummier, and the stuff above. >_>
I do not like how you quotemine me there into that focus. Why do you do so?
Good gobs, how many scum do you think we have here?
3.
Yeah, cue me thinking TDS is town because of other games. And all that stuff he said to me. No, you look back and face me up a case other than somehow..guilt-tripping me here. I am unsure if you wish to know more about me or are just making me feel guilty about my point. My point is my point--attack it directly. I was
unsure about TDS. He's scummy, alright, but then I chose to pick Hapah. Not out of intuition, but..out of what I saw. What my notes saw. What I checked, countered, timezoned and realized.
Or is this vain-glory speaking? You take some measure of responsibility for his play because you IC'd a game he was in, and can't stand the thought that his shite play is somehow your fault, and so you don't want to see him lynched for said shite play. Is that it?
Of all things, I am not vain. Nor do I aim for glory. Is it the matter that 'TDS plays bad and I'm his teacher, therefore I must defend my honor and reputation' plays here? No. I just mentioned that in order to get a glean from him.
As his IC, previously, I am deeply ashamed. Both in myself and how I taught. Him? I'd rather attribute his behavior in this game towards how his actions have proven him. Let no dishonor come to him other than how he acted here--HOWEVER I WILL ACTIVELY DISPUTE HIS LYNCH RIGHT DAMN NOW.
Yes, it was a general idea, and yes, I was against his lynch--that was because I saw an imperative in Hapah. An imperative that was plaintively there, but not even touched or remarked...by quite well anyone. At all.
Because that's a crap reason. If you'd "rather attribute his behavior in this game towards how his actions have proven him" and truly feel that we should "[l]et no dishonor come to him other than how he acted here", then by gum, fucking do that. That, above? That's the worst use of meta in scum-hunting I've ever seen.
I'm glad you agree (because me = his IC before =/= my reason for people lynching him)
makeinu: Taking sure note of your words there, why do I feel you appealing to my sense of personalism instead of my as a player?