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[TheDarkStar]

Toaster had some interesting things in his post. His seemed to be multiple other people that we tend to have doubts about.

Max:

Persus isn't throwing out OMGUS votes now, is he? Why do you want to move the conversation to him so badly?

And you think OMGUS vote has any validity as any sort of scum tell?

It might not be a scum tell for sure, but random voting is worrying: It either means that they are bad at playing town and might get good players killed (so lynching these people is better than letting them get someone else), or they are bad at scum and are trying to throw suspicion on random people. Either way, it's safer to get rid of them. Also, any suspicion about Persus is old and not as important as the current investigations.

TheDarkStar:

I'm tired today, it's been a very long day.

More excuses won't help; get some proof built up over the next few game-days of being non-scum.

See, no, that's not how it works.  The burden of proof is on you to convince people that your target is scum.  It is not the job of anyone to prove themselves town.  The best defense in Mafia is truly a good offense- prove others are scum and you have proven yourself town by process of elimination.
You conveniently did not quote the context there. I had been accusing Makeinu, and there is evidence against him. My post was written because I thought he was scum at the time, and it's not possible for me to provide any more evidence than there is. My post was intended to say that claiming town is not good enough evidence, and that we will lynch him unless we provide better evidence.

And I'm working on that read.  Hoping to have one by the time this post is over.

Sinlessmoon, Toaster: Are you still with us?

Now you're jumping right off that.  Jump around some more?

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

Are you townclaiming again? I swear I'll put my vote back on you -_- I will, damnit.

So do it.

Okay, got that read.  Caz, why are you flinging your vote around like crazy?  It's almost like you want to look active without being active.

While Caz might be scum too (as one of the aliens) or be a survivor, you're deliberately throwing suspicion off Makeinu, almost as if you have reason to defend him.

Makeinu:

Yeah, generally noob-scum are more concerned with keeping up their image than anything else. They make a superficial attempt at scumhunting while their real plan is to make themselves look so uber townie that no one would think of lynching them. I don't think it's the best tactic, but it's used pretty commonly.

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

I see no problem with that.  I know I'm better at scum myself, and am really not very good at town.  Especially lately- my game has slipped due to poor focus.

Again, you have no problem with the things that everyone else does.

Imp:

I need to decide if you are hostile to Town or helpful because my Wincon requires me to eliminate threats to Town.

If we're picking nits, that sounds like you're not actually Town.

Interestingly, Makeinu made an almost identical comment, but you defend him.

I know my wincon and alignment. Having already been pinged as suspicious for previously throwing out assertions to them, I refuse to further that by repeating them in every post to defend myself. At the risk of being pinged for such again, however, I will do so here. My wincon requires eliminating threats to the town.

[/b][/color]

In regards to what you posted:
Okay, this is a start.  Who else do you suspect, and why?
For starters, you.

Or, you know, you could do something else with your vote.

Exactly, like doing this: Toaster.

[TheDarkStar]

Toaster had some interesting things in his post. His seemed to be multiple other people that we tend to have doubts about.

Max:

Persus isn't throwing out OMGUS votes now, is he? Why do you want to move the conversation to him so badly?

And you think OMGUS vote has any validity as any sort of scum tell?

It might not be a scum tell for sure, but random voting is worrying: It either means that they are bad at playing town and might get good players killed (so lynching these people is better than letting them get someone else), or they are bad at scum and are trying to throw suspicion on random people. Either way, it's safer to get rid of them. Also, any suspicion about Persus is old and not as important as the current investigations.

TheDarkStar:

I'm tired today, it's been a very long day.

More excuses won't help; get some proof built up over the next few game-days of being non-scum.

See, no, that's not how it works.  The burden of proof is on you to convince people that your target is scum.  It is not the job of anyone to prove themselves town.  The best defense in Mafia is truly a good offense- prove others are scum and you have proven yourself town by process of elimination.
You conveniently did not quote the context there. I had been accusing Makeinu, and there is evidence against him. My post was written because I thought he was scum at the time, and it's not possible for me to provide any more evidence than there is. My post was intended to say that claiming town is not good enough evidence, and that we will lynch him unless we provide better evidence.

And I'm working on that read.  Hoping to have one by the time this post is over.

Sinlessmoon, Toaster: Are you still with us?

Now you're jumping right off that.  Jump around some more?

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

Are you townclaiming again? I swear I'll put my vote back on you -_- I will, damnit.

So do it.

Okay, got that read.  Caz, why are you flinging your vote around like crazy?  It's almost like you want to look active without being active.

While Caz might be scum too (as one of the aliens) or be a survivor, you're deliberately throwing suspicion off Makeinu, almost as if you have reason to defend him.

Makeinu:

Yeah, generally noob-scum are more concerned with keeping up their image than anything else. They make a superficial attempt at scumhunting while their real plan is to make themselves look so uber townie that no one would think of lynching them. I don't think it's the best tactic, but it's used pretty commonly.

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

I see no problem with that.  I know I'm better at scum myself, and am really not very good at town.  Especially lately- my game has slipped due to poor focus.

Again, you have no problem with the things that everyone else does.

Imp:

I need to decide if you are hostile to Town or helpful because my Wincon requires me to eliminate threats to Town.

If we're picking nits, that sounds like you're not actually Town.

Interestingly, Makeinu made an almost identical comment, but you defend him.

I know my wincon and alignment. Having already been pinged as suspicious for previously throwing out assertions to them, I refuse to further that by repeating them in every post to defend myself. At the risk of being pinged for such again, however, I will do so here. My wincon requires eliminating threats to the town.

[/b][/color]

In regards to what you posted:
Okay, this is a start.  Who else do you suspect, and why?
For starters, you.

Or, you know, you could do something else with your vote.

Exactly, like doing this: Toaster.

[TheDarkStar]

Fixed my wall of text.

[Toaster]

Now I can actually finish.


Caz:

Put words into my mouth more, bro. My reasoning for my vote against makeinu is that his excuses are flimsy. You think scum isn't up to exaggerating irl issues to keep suspicion off them? I see people excusing their lack of coherent posts by lack of time, tiredness, whatever. Not all of them flip town. To be honest, making an excuse is almost admitting guilt. If you don't agree to that, I'll reference makeinu's frequent assurances to us that he is town. (After all, how else would we know?)

So is he scum for making excuses or scum for repeatably claiming town?


Makeinu:

I don't generally make a habit of town-claiming.

?

Regardless, as before, you're free to be suspicious based on your read of my actions, but your suspicion is misplaced. Barring my death and a role/alignment flip, however, I can't prove that you're wrong.

I know my wincon and alignment. Having already been pinged as suspicious for previously throwing out assertions to them, I refuse to further that by repeating them in every post to defend myself. At the risk of being pinged for such again, however, I will do so here. My wincon requires eliminating threats to the town.

I'm not a dopp

I'm not going to role claim, not on day one, but I am town.

The evidence is against you on this one.

Also, I have nothing against (and even encourage) bringing in a new style of hunting scum to the table.  However, you've only actually voted once, with a clearly throwaway vote.  What results can you bring to the table?

fish out of water get his sea legs.

Nautical nonsense be something I wish!


TheDarkStar:

I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

What does the first half of this sentence mean?  (Prior to the comma)

Hard to quote inline answers

How, exactly, am I defending Makeinu?


Persus:

So, it turns out I may have been a little manic yesterday, due to an unforeseen drug interaction. And by may have, I mean was completely. And by a little, I mean a lot.

I don't know the circumstances of what happened, but I fully recommend that you do not play under the influence.

It's just a bad idea.

Jim is correct.

This just made my day and caused me to burst out laughing, thanks.

I aim to please.


Ranger:

Toaster: Fair point. But the advantage of asking everyone a question is also there, as you get many responses which you can then find someone worth pursuing. I believe both options have their advantages, so I picked the one that works better for me style wise. And because you put it up for Imp, I might as well answer since its a similar situation. Yes, I would. My reasons are the same, I would just get less creative with my questions in the massive list of players.

If your questions are less creative, are they less effective?


SinlessMoon:  Are you actually playing this game?


Jim:  Short of your vote, it's hard to tell whom you actually do and do not suspect out of that post.  Could you clarify?

[Jim Groovester]

Hey, TheDarkStar, you missed a question.

TheDarkStar, besides makeinu, who do you suspect?

I suppose you've answered it already in part.

Jim:  Short of your vote, it's hard to tell whom you actually do and do not suspect out of that post.  Could you clarify?

I suspect TheDarkStar for being lazy and opportunistic.

I suspect Max White to some extent for his self-confirming pressure against Tiruin, which reminded me a lot of the same thing he pulled against NQT in Sup 6 on Day 1. Also, he disappeared for some reason. What reason? Who knows?

Beyond those two I don't really have a read on anybody.

[makeinu]

Also, if there's no activity by day end where going to go into a NL. I don't want to give the dopps an advantage.

How does lynching give the dopps an advantage?

NL loses info and we miss a chance to lynch a dopp. A intentional NL is fine, but an unintentional I feel is bad.

Likewise, I feel a blind lynch is bad, as mathematically it's advantage scum. If there's a real reason to lynch, then do, but lynch for the sake of lynching is no better or worse than an unintentional no lynch, in my opinion.

Makeinu:

I don't generally make a habit of town-claiming.

?


The evidence is against you on this one.

Examples in this game aside, I meant more generally. I'll admit to playing badly so far.

fish out of water get his sea legs.

Nautical nonsense be something I wish!

A pirate I be not, but a sailor, aye! If it be nautical nonsense ye seek, then yer basin I can fill.

Screw no fun allowed.

TheDarkStar:

I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

What does the first half of this sentence mean?  (Prior to the comma)

I asked before, and I'll ask again, because it wasn't answered. DarkStar, I want to know what the difference between claiming TOWN and claiming TOWNIE are. That seems a semantics argument to me, and I dislike semantics arguments, as they're only a way to argue without actually providing any substance.

Fixed my wall of text.

For certain loose definitions of the word "fixed" perhaps, but all I see is a nearly unreadable wall of text with little substance to it. That dark blue is very difficult for me to read. You'll forgive me if I remove it in my reply.

Max:

Persus isn't throwing out OMGUS votes now, is he? Why do you want to move the conversation to him so badly?

And you think OMGUS vote has any validity as any sort of scum tell?

It might not be a scum tell for sure, but random voting is worrying: It either means that they are bad at playing town and might get good players killed (so lynching these people is better than letting them get someone else), or they are bad at scum and are trying to throw suspicion on random people. Either way, it's safer to get rid of them.

This is not the first time something you've said has left me scratching my head in confusion. I thought the whole point of the RVS stage was to use random votes to apply pressure, and gauge people's responses. Is it not? How is that worrying? If they're bad at playing town, they're likely to get themselves lynched, and if they're bad at playing scum, they're likely to out themselves through inconsistent answers and lies. Because lies are easy to tell, but hard to maintain.

I find, in general, that your play so far is fairly lacking in substance. I may not have brought much to the table so far, but I don't see much with your name on it either, and I find your suspicions a thin soup.


Imp:

You post impressive walls of text. While I certainly appreciate the play advice, I'm having some difficulties in parsing any actual substance out of a lot of what I've linked there. Would it be considered rude if I requested you summarize your suspicions?

[makeinu]

Balls... broken quote tags....

[Max White]

You know I'm just going to have to ask to be replaced.
I'm spending the christmas season with family, and as hard as I try I just can't drag myself into arguing here after a long day or arguing with them. I keep telling myself to go on and contribute, but honestly I just feel like abusing you all and that isn't a very nice way to play.

[Persus13]

You know I'm just going to have to ask to be replaced.
I'm spending the christmas season with family, and as hard as I try I just can't drag myself into arguing here after a long day or arguing with them. I keep telling myself to go on and contribute, but honestly I just feel like abusing you all and that isn't a very nice way to play.

Unvote

Sinlessmoon, where are you?

Tiruin, I know you have a bunch of RL stuff and Sprint, but a post in the near future would be nice.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
Caz: Toaster
makeinu: RangerCado
Max White: Tiruin
Sinlessmoon: Caz, Imp, Persus13
TheDarkStar: Jim Groovester
Tiruin: Max White
Toaster: TheDarkStar


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

Max White has requested a Replacement.

[Persus13]

Meph: I believe Makeinu is also voting DarkStar.

DarkStar

Unvote, I forgot that Caz and Imp were also trying to get Sinlessmoon to talk. I think he may need a prod.

Back to Max, I still think he's scum.

[Sinlessmoon]

Ah, apologies. I've been out for a couple days.

Gotta catch up on the reading.

[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar:

I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

What does the first half of this sentence mean?  (Prior to the comma)

I asked before, and I'll ask again, because it wasn't answered. DarkStar, I want to know what the difference between claiming TOWN and claiming TOWNIE are. That seems a semantics argument to me, and I dislike semantics arguments, as they're only a way to argue without actually providing any substance.

Townie = specific role, town = town-aligned. War vet, Vigilante, Detective, etc. are all town roles.

[makeinu]

Townie = specific role, town = town-aligned. War vet, Vigilante, Detective, etc. are all town roles.

Ah. Semantics, just not in the way I was thinking.

[TheDarkStar]

Townie = specific role, town = town-aligned. War vet, Vigilante, Detective, etc. are all town roles.

Ah. Semantics, just not in the way I was thinking.

Yep, my words actually mean something.