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Author Topic: Paranormal 23 - Game Over!  (Read 145535 times)

Toaster

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #240 on: December 06, 2013, 11:34:16 am »

Extend.  I'll probably need tonight at least to get what I need to do done here.


Caz:
I don't make the posts in one piece, as I'm reading through the thread more pieces get cobbled onto it. I should probably read it all through first, then reply post-by-post, but holy hell am I too lazy for that crap.

Why'd you vote him over me?

He's earlier in the alphabet.

Fair enough.


Imp:  I'm not sure if you're being serious or not.  If you are, know that none of my pirate references were serious.

I'm doing it because pirates are inherently funny.  If you disagree, I'll have to start lacing all my posts with pirate jokes.

I think I adequately explained this in my response to Ranger.  I did it to both of you because it's something I see many players doing these days, and I'm trying to dissuade it.

I dislike the opener of asking everyone a question.  If you ask everyone, there's no shock of "Oh crap attention is on me" because it's on everyone.  You're not putting any pressure, and are not likely to get anything useful out of it.

How much do you believe of what I have quoted above?  Am I understanding you correctly - you are claiming that you feel that people do not experience pressure from questions so long as other people are also being questioned?  How much of this claim do you believe is your opinion, and how much is absolute fact?

Let me preface this by saying that yes, this is all my opinion.  I believe that people give you a more genuine reaction (or perhaps more accurately can't lie as well) if they feel under pressure.  If the police are interviewing twenty suspects at once, the guilty man would feel less pressure than a one-on-one situation with a light shining in his face.

It's really nit-picky, since it's something I've seen happen more often and I tried to stem the tide of it a bit.

If you're Town, we need you.  Are you going to be participating more regularly and intently this game, or is what you're showing so far the best you're going to show this game?

I certainly hope this isn't my best.  I fell asleep early last night and didn't get that post in I wanted.



Getting this out for now- more later.
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Mephansteras

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Paranormal 23
« Reply #241 on: December 06, 2013, 01:37:23 pm »

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makeinu: RangerCado
Max White: Persus13, Tiruin
Sinlessmoon: Caz, Imp
Tiruin: Max White



Day ends ~5 PM Pacific Today. There are 3 votes to Extend the day to Monday. 4 Votes total needed to Extend.
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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #242 on: December 06, 2013, 01:41:07 pm »

Extend
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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #243 on: December 06, 2013, 02:58:23 pm »

Toaster:

I'm being serious, but you might be partially misunderstanding me too.  And maybe I'm misunderstanding you - so lets get this sorted out.

Here's what I think:  Scum hunting is possible even on D1.  Toaster is an experienced player, and widely considered to be a good player.  Jokes are great, but we have a job to do, and that job isn't telling jokes - so joking cannot replace doing our job.

I'll enjoy any level of joking you use in your posts, but look at what you're doing - you've made 4 posts, you were tied for lowest number of posts, and you've given 'joke space' for roughly half the volume used in your few and non-wall-of-text posts.

And now that I really understand that you think questions should be used as police-like interrogations, spotlight and all - your joking started in a post where you asked 3 questions, and one of them a joke question.  I don't get what you're 'really doing here'.  Your methods are not making a coherent picture for me.  Yes, you're also Scumhunting some too, but what I think I'm seeing you doing is a very minimal level of activity, with these jokes added in as padding.

So far you've used jokes to 'interrogate' Jim, and you've used jokes as a redirection combined with failing to answer one of my questions.  Because I believe you're a good and experienced player, I consider you one of the examples of 'how to play', and that's what I'm measuring you against.  And... I'm surprised and disappointed.  Because you're not measuring up to what I expect an example of 'how to play' should be.

So use as many jokes as you'd like - I don't think pirates are inherently funny, but I think they can be part of good and bad jokes, like anything else.  But my issue is - are you active lurking and making it look like you're scumhunting by just interacting with a few people, and are you padding your posts with jokes to make it look like you're doing more and more meaningful 'work' here than you are?

I certainly hope this isn't my best.  I fell asleep early last night and didn't get that post in I wanted.

There's no problem with that.  Any one night is completely excusable.  Thing is, game's been going for just over 4 days now (and day would have ended yesterday without extension).  When I ask:

Are you going to be participating more regularly and intently this game, or is what you're showing so far the best you're going to show this game?

I'm not talking about just last night.  I'm talking about everything you've done and not done this game, each of these days and nights.  'Minimal effort, padded with 30-50% added in humor that is not actually being used to flavor Scumhunting, but actually is just added in and nothing but joking' - that's what I believe I'm seeing from you this game so far.  That's what I'm interrogating you about, and what I'm trying to hit with my light.  I don't care if it shines in your face or not - I want to see what your behavior means about your intentions.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #244 on: December 06, 2013, 03:50:25 pm »

I'm not going to make it by the deadline.

Extend.

I'll be fine once finals are over, but until that time, this game takes second, possibly even third or fourth, fiddle.
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Persus13

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #245 on: December 06, 2013, 05:13:18 pm »

Imp, Toaster seemed just to be making a flavor text reference. For the record, he wasn't exactly that active in the last Supernatural either, (although he did turn out to be converted scum). And for that matter, you don't have a lot of posts either. You're 4th in the overall post count.

Sinlessmoon: I really want to hear more from you.

Also, if there's no activity by day end where going to go into a NL. I don't want to give the dopps an advantage.
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Caz

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #246 on: December 06, 2013, 05:17:07 pm »

Also, if there's no activity by day end where going to go into a NL. I don't want to give the dopps an advantage.

How does lynching give the dopps an advantage?
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Persus13

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #247 on: December 06, 2013, 05:21:53 pm »

Also, if there's no activity by day end where going to go into a NL. I don't want to give the dopps an advantage.

How does lynching give the dopps an advantage?
NL loses info and we miss a chance to lynch a dopp. A intentional NL is fine, but an unintentional I feel is bad.
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RangerCado

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #248 on: December 06, 2013, 05:26:31 pm »

We have 5 votes for an extension so we'll be going until monday.
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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #249 on: December 06, 2013, 05:30:07 pm »

Also, if there's no activity by day end where going to go into a NL. I don't want to give the dopps an advantage.

How does lynching give the dopps an advantage?
NL loses info and we miss a chance to lynch a dopp. A intentional NL is fine, but an unintentional I feel is bad.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying we should NL to not give the dopps the advantage. Nevermind, hah.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #250 on: December 06, 2013, 05:57:03 pm »

The Whiteboard
makeinu: RangerCado
Max White: Persus13, Tiruin
Sinlessmoon: Caz, Imp
Tiruin: Max White



Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. There will be no more extensions this day.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #251 on: December 07, 2013, 01:22:19 am »

This is going to be long. Sorry for the absence.

Explain which side of the fluff-line Toaster's question, your answer to it, and your answering question each falls on?  If these are not fluffy to you, what is the useful purpose you see these serving?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Toaster, your 'answer' to my question was amusing and somewhat fits theme.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am wondering if your 'peg' is too heavy for you or something.  I was going to study your 'avast' answer a bit and try and figure out if it had a coded hidden meaning or something, but there was your spoiler to consider too.

So are you telling me that you and Jim are just joking about the fluff?  What purpose do you believe that serves in this game for you or him?

Or are you telling me in an artistic and amusing fashion that you're just not going to answer my question?

Because you didn't answer it, and you've made two comments to Jim this game that, other than sounding themey, actually are linguistic nonsense.

Jim:  Arrr.  Be ye a swarthy enough pirate to see us out of this mess?

Translated into modern English, you asked him if his skin's dark enough to see us out of this mess.

Aye. Be ye a seaworthy enough sailor to smoothly sail to safety?

He answered you -yes-, but his follow up question uses language in a sensible fashion, without logical contradiction.  Your reply is even more nonsensical than your first Pirate theme question:

I'm going to avast this ship until we sail over some land lubbers.

That seems to be a no in reply to his question - because you just said you were stopping the ship until you sail over some newbies (assuming land-lubbers in context are those without Mafia-legs yet).

What are you doing with this?  Why are you doing it?  Why didn't you answer my question, and why did you throw a 'labeled as a joke' joke at me in place of an answer?

Why does this bother you so much?

Jim:
Is your GPA going to allow you to play this game, or are you going to have to lurk through it for at least the next week?  If lurking's the answer your GPA needs, are you going to replace or will we have to decide if we're better off lynching you to not without your input?

Well, damn, with such tough talk I'm definitely going to come out and play right fucking now, instead of when my schedule permits.

<3 Imp, only you can take me away from my homework.

I have no intention of replacing out as of now, but I've seriously considered it.

Have you reached a point where you just don't think you're going to get to do anything cool as any role now, because you're getting targeted period too much or something?  Where's your -play-, man?  Where's the skill and art that others have spoken of admiring you for?

I'm almost tempted to toss a 'knock knock joke' at you.  But if you 'answered' it I'd only be saying to you 'Can Jim come out and play, please?'.

I GET IT

I HAVENT BEEN ACTIVE

I KNOW

Jim I'll leave the interpretation to you, but please do read two pages in exact next time?
Quote
I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?
I mean, I could also not quite feel up to caring but hey, you noticed the shallow detail there! It's only a few pages back!

Yeah, yeah, I'm a horrible person and a horrible player, what with all these priorities and other stupid shit going on.

Continue along the post line and you'll see strange reasons back and forth.

On rereading this I still don't understand (or care) what you're both arguing about.

I'll just go do my own thing.

I understand your reasoning here but I question whether it's as all-important as you seem to be implying.

Is interfering with another player's scumhunting typically a tell associated with scum players?
Well it wasn't last time.

So of course it must be this time, right?

If there isn't even a pattern a single game long where answering another person's question is a scumtell, what the hell are you doing?

Tiruin & Max White, since you've both voted each other and I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?
Basically I saw Tiruin do something interesting, so I bought it up and she got somewhat agitated by the fact that I was singling her out. So following on from that I voted for her to see how that would go and she got so annoyed she decided to return the favor.

I honestly don't care very much about her answering my question for me, it is the kind of thing people sometimes do, but when she is throwing out OMGUS votes to people this early as an act of aggression that is a little more interesting.

This reminds me of you in Supernatural 6 on Day 1 against NQT.

Wherein, you say that you saw something a player do, then you say your target gets all bothered by it, and suddenly you have instant justification for your vote.

Basically, I smell bullshit.

Wait, this is actually your most recent post in this thread. That's almost an absences as long as mine. Where the hell did you disappear to?

Because it's a tacit admission that he's perfectly within his rights to hold whatever suspicions he wants to regarding me. His suspicions are not based on facts, but on intuition, hunch, whatever, but that does not make them any less valid for him to hold.

Clarify for me: What's valid, for him to have suspicions to hold, or the suspicions themselves?

Regardless, as before, you're free to be suspicious based on your read of my actions, but your suspicion is misplaced. Barring my death and a role/alignment flip, however, I can't prove that you're wrong. If my assertion, based on the facts that I have but cannot prove, that you're wrong makes you more suspicious, then so be it.

Declarations of townhood are completely empty.

As to the scum-hunting, forgive me if it seems I'm not. I'm unused to this style of Q&A scum-hunting, with random, or seemingly so, "What if..." questions posed and answered. Perhaps I was rash in jumping into this game immediately, but it looked interesting. I have itches that make me lean toward a couple as scum, but I haven't clarified for myself yet how much of that is an emotional lizard-brain response, and how much is logic.

It's not about the random Q&A. The random questions don't turn up anything. Sadly, they're sort of necessary to actually get the game going.

There are substantive issues to talk about and discuss, and asking players about them is a worthwhile thing to do.

On your reads through the game, did you find anything strange?

Anything odd?

Out of place?

Noteworthy?

Something to clarify?

Suspicious?

Then ask the player in question about it. And determine the appropriate level of hostility and pressure to apply in the tone of the question to get the most revealing response. That is how mafia is played on this board.

I realize how much of a fish out of water you are, but continually talking about it will accomplish nothing.

Spoiler: Real life issues: (click to show/hide)

This is not something you should have had to clarify. Nobody in the game is obligated to get an explanation of any real life issues you have.

Jim: I checked every line because i'm trying to figure out what makeinu's playstyle and way of thinking is. Checking his responses to mine is a good way to check for me to start. Is there a problem with that exactly?

No.

Did you have to list your entire thought process while you did it?

Wouldn't it be more effective to figure out what precisely it is you want to ask somebody and then ask them that, without fussing around with all the other stuff? (Hint: Yes)

Tiruin

makeinu

makeinu

Hrm, three votes in a single post.

Why, there's no way you could be intentionally drawing attention to yourself with these antics.

Say, what were your intentions with these antics?

I'm voting for him for trying too hard to fit in.

Yeah, fuck the new guy!

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.
Well, I suspect him a lot more now with his fifth town claim. He's close enough to me voting for him again that I'll probably do it next time he is suspicious.
Idle conversation is still made for a reason, and this is definitely a townclaim (yet again). You shouldn't need to spam townclaims on day one, since it's not like anyone is going to be able to prove otherwise if you stay quiet. However, early townclaiming spam like that shows that you are trying to seem as pro-town as possible when playing scum. While some of them have legitimate reason, you just added another one that wouldn't be done if you were truly a townie.

You have no idea what you're doing, do you?

Though DarkStar not previously having a case is suspicious.

It's because I came a day late, after ~10 pages of the thread were already written and people had already started collections of evidence.

A day late is nothing. That's no excuse at all for not doing an adequate job of your own scumhunting.

I think you're probably scum, for your flimsy suspicion on makeinu and just as flimsy unvote. It looks opportunistic to me instead of legitimate

TheDarkStar, besides makeinu, who do you suspect?
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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #252 on: December 07, 2013, 01:35:15 am »

Damn, dude, you bring the big guns when you finally get rolling!  :)

Because it's a tacit admission that he's perfectly within his rights to hold whatever suspicions he wants to regarding me. His suspicions are not based on facts, but on intuition, hunch, whatever, but that does not make them any less valid for him to hold.

Clarify for me: What's valid, for him to have suspicions to hold, or the suspicions themselves?

It's valid for him to have suspicions to hold. Who am I to tell him he's wrong to think anything he wants?

Thank you, and thank you as well, Imp, for taking the time to help this fish out of water get his sea legs.
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In 2142, We made the Regenabots. They made us immortal. Now the year is 2165. Too many humans, and not nearly enough to go around. What have we done? Join this dark world today.

The Starcrash. A global disaster that destroyed our homeworld. The AI Council tries to hold us together. But some of us won't be kept in line. We are the Free Captains. We are Star Pirates.

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #253 on: December 07, 2013, 02:32:12 am »

Jim: Something I have done in every mafia game i've played, or rather something I haven't, is spend time trying to make my posts sound fancy and planned out. I find the quotes I need, post my thoughts, (ALL my thoughts) and make the usual side comments. I figured out a system that worked for me and have stuck to most of the time. If you want me to add t the very end what i'm trying to get across I will, but I see no reason to stop how I do things.

More effective? Maybe.
Going through the whole process? Yes, it makes the post look as real as it is because its how i'm thinking things through. Same thing I do whether Town or Mafia.
Fussing with everything else? Meh, its how i've always played, sue me.
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Toaster

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Re: Paranormal 23 - Day 1 - Trouble at Sea
« Reply #254 on: December 07, 2013, 03:27:40 pm »

Tiruin:  Can you sum up your case on Max in a couple bullet points, please?  Please include a note on why exactly you voted him in the first place.  It got hard to follow there.


Max:
Persus isn't throwing out OMGUS votes now, is he? Why do you want to move the conversation to him so badly?

And you think OMGUS vote has any validity as any sort of scum tell?


TheDarkStar:
I'm tired today, it's been a very long day.

More excuses won't help; get some proof built up over the next few game-days of being non-scum.

See, no, that's not how it works.  The burden of proof is on you to convince people that your target is scum.  It is not the job of anyone to prove themselves town.  The best defense in Mafia is truly a good offense- prove others are scum and you have proven yourself town by process of elimination.

I note your total lack of a case on anything at this point.

Looking through the day's posts, Makeinu is trying too hard to be town. He has not made a real contribution so far, even though he claims he eventually will. He says he is town and definately not a doppelganger all the time (summed up by Persus), but as a townie he should assume that he does not need to say this, since he would have nothing to hide. I'm voting for him for trying too hard to fit in.

Okay, this is a start.  Who else do you suspect, and why?

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

And there went your start.

makeinu has shown that he is not just making excuses, so, while I still suspect him, Unvote for now. We need someone to check him eventually (and hopefully soon) to see what he is. I'd consider is reason to lynch if he came up as a townie based on the fact that, while he claims town, he carefully does not claim townie.

Well, I suspect him a lot more now with his fifth town claim. He's close enough to me voting for him again that I'll probably do it next time he is suspicious.

Dammit, now I'm tired of quoting you.  There's really no reason to not vote him if you suspect him since you're not doing anything else with your vote.  Or, you know, you could do something else with your vote.


Caz:
You were very quick to jump in on a question directed at me.

True, jumping in the middle of questions is a foul. The people call foul! Death to Tiruin!

Is this really a lynchable offense?

Hell, all three of your votes look like they're just "lol me too!" votes.  Why is this?

And I'm working on that read.  Hoping to have one by the time this post is over.

Sinlessmoon, Toaster: Are you still with us?

Now you're jumping right off that.  Jump around some more?

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

Are you townclaiming again? I swear I'll put my vote back on you -_- I will, damnit.

So do it.

Okay, got that read.  Caz, why are you flinging your vote around like crazy?  It's almost like you want to look active without being active.


Makeinu:
Yeah, generally noob-scum are more concerned with keeping up their image than anything else. They make a superficial attempt at scumhunting while their real plan is to make themselves look so uber townie that no one would think of lynching them. I don't think it's the best tactic, but it's used pretty commonly.

Sadly, I have to admit I'm better at playing scum than town...

I probably shouldn't admit that...

I see no problem with that.  I know I'm better at scum myself, and am really not very good at town.  Especially lately- my game has slipped due to poor focus.


Imp:
I need to decide if you are hostile to Town or helpful because my Wincon requires me to eliminate threats to Town.

If we're picking nits, that sounds like you're not actually Town.

Quote from: Imp
pirate stuff

Jim beat me to the perfect response to this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I haven't had a long enough solid block of time to really pore into this.  Hell, I just got about half done of what I wanted now.  The content will (has) come- I just do what I can when I can.

Also, one more thing:

How much did the pirate pay to get his ears pierced?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)





Blarg out of time to finish this post.  Toaster, 179.
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