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[TheDarkStar]

I'm tired today, it's been a very long day.

More excuses won't help; get some proof built up over the next few game-days of being non-scum.

[makeinu]

Wow, your sympathy is overwhelming.

[makeinu]

I think I'll come back tomorrow. I think I'm done for today.

Cheers.

[TheDarkStar]

Wow, your sympathy is overwhelming.

I just don't entirely trust you, since you have made excuses for quite a few different sets of posts.

(But if you do happen to be telling the truth, sorry).

[TheDarkStar]

I'm off for today probably.

[makeinu]

Wow, your sympathy is overwhelming.

I just don't entirely trust you, since you have made excuses for quite a few different sets of posts.

(But if you do happen to be telling the truth, sorry).

Forgive my terseness. It really has been a rough day.

[Tiruin]

What just happened.

PFP reading up

[makeinu]

Q&A and Real Life.

PFP? Post For Post?

[Tiruin]

*points at Beginner's Mafia abbreviation spoiler*

Posting from Phone/Profession (the latter for me as internet on the phone is sloooow)

[Jim Groovester]

responses to makeinu

Did all of makeinu's post require a line by line response?

I'm struggling to find your point here.

Jim: Yeah yeah, your cranky and hate getting pestered, but you haven't dished at many questions from what i've seen so far, and have been playing a reactive game. Any reason why? I can understand if your busy but i'd like some indication of actually scum hunting.

I actually am busy. This is the last week of classes for me, so every professor decides that now is the time to make everything due. Next week is finals.

Any time I spend here is time I'm stealing from the stuff I actually need to get done.

In any case, the reason I've been weak with my scumhunting efforts is because I've mostly been posting late at night when I'm tired and don't really feel like making all that much effort to make a post, besides answering questions and a few other topics of interest. I've also been operating on little sleep since the game started.

As always, I pursue what I feel is worth pursuing.

If you want to know why i'm suspicious of you, heres the list:
-You dodged a question that was also a slight accusation, even if the accusation wasn't directed at you.
-Your flailing a lot right now, not something most mafia players do.
-Your answers to all of these questions don't sit well with me, regardless of how many you've answered. That doesn't make you town.
-Your asking me to unvote you because you think my vote is invalid because of its starting point, ignoring how i've been pursuing it.

All fair and valid reasons. I withdraw my request. Vote as your conscience and intuition see fit.

Why are you admitting the validity of RangerCado's reasons for suspecting you?

This seems like a tacit admission that you are a doppelganger. How else could the reasons be fair and valid?

So, it turns out I may have been a little manic yesterday, due to an unforeseen drug interaction. And by may have, I mean was completely. And by a little, I mean a lot.

I don't know the circumstances of what happened, but I fully recommend that you do not play under the influence.

It's just a bad idea.

The point still remains that we ask each other questions with the hope of provoking some sort of response. When you interject on these questions, as you did, it may give scum a chance to modify their answers in a way that better suits their needs. You give them information to work from. As far as asking 'Why did you ask that in the first place', I don't see why you couldn't have waited until I gave a reply and saw what I had to say. You seem to have interrupted another players scum hunting.

I understand your reasoning here but I question whether it's as all-important as you seem to be implying.

Is interfering with another player's scumhunting typically a tell associated with scum players?

That sounds a bit like an excuse for getting away with causing excess suspicion as scum. "Oops, I messed up, but it wasn't really me. Ignore my suspicious posts."

So do you suspect makeinu for it?

Tiruin & Max White, since you've both voted each other and I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?

TheDarkStar & Sinlessmoon, I consider you part of the people whom I addressed with my question directed towards new people, and I would like it answered.

New People, let's say you are scum and your scum buddy is being scummy. And not just a little scummy, like, really, really scummy. What do you do?

[Max White]

"Yes, I really believe this, my behaviour aside."

"Ah ha! But that's exactly what scum would say!"

"No, I don't really believe this. I believe that sometimes scum-hunting is a solo venture."

"So, you admit to being scum! Or do you just think you're smarter than everyone else?"

Now I have two problems here. Firstly you are still avoiding giving some sort of actual answer, but secondly you are making it very clear that you are answering questions based on what you think is the most 'townie' thing to say, rather than honestly. It is pretty scummy to be trying to figure out what answer is 'right' in terms of getting me to leave you alone, rather than what is the truth.

I understand your reasoning here but I question whether it's as all-important as you seem to be implying.

Is interfering with another player's scumhunting typically a tell associated with scum players?

Well it wasn't last time.

Tiruin & Max White, since you've both voted each other and I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?

Basically I saw Tiruin do something interesting, so I bought it up and she got somewhat agitated by the fact that I was singling her out. So following on from that I voted for her to see how that would go and she got so annoyed she decided to return the favor.

I honestly don't care very much about her answering my question for me, it is the kind of thing people sometimes do, but when she is throwing out OMGUS votes to people this early as an act of aggression that is a little more interesting.

[makeinu]

All fair and valid reasons. I withdraw my request. Vote as your conscience and intuition see fit.

Why are you admitting the validity of RangerCado's reasons for suspecting you?

This seems like a tacit admission that you are a doppelganger. How else could the reasons be fair and valid?

Because it's a tacit admission that he's perfectly within his rights to hold whatever suspicions he wants to regarding me. His suspicions are not based on facts, but on intuition, hunch, whatever, but that does not make them any less valid for him to hold.

You must think me stupid that you'd think I'm admitting to being a doppelganger.

I don't know the circumstances of what happened, but I fully recommend that you do not play under the influence.

Ongoing medical treatment. Prescription drugs often have weird, unexpected, interactions. Especially one of the preventative drugs I'm on.

Now I have two problems here. Firstly you are still avoiding giving some sort of actual answer, but secondly you are making it very clear that you are answering questions based on what you think is the most 'townie' thing to say, rather than honestly.

And I have one problem here: I have given an actual, honest, answer, yet we still come back to the problem, namely:

That you believe my posts indicate I am scum, or at least scummy.

And anything I say or do will be filtered through that lens for you. Anything I say or do will be, is being, interpreted as:

pretty scummy to be trying to figure out what answer is 'right' in terms of getting me to leave you alone, rather than what is the truth.

So pardon me if I see no point in, what was the word used, overreacting, to your accusations any longer.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin & Max White, since you've both voted each other and I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?

Basically I saw Tiruin do something interesting, so I bought it up and she got somewhat agitated by the fact that I was singling her out. So following on from that I voted for her to see how that would go and she got so annoyed she decided to return the favor.

I honestly don't care very much about her answering my question for me, it is the kind of thing people sometimes do, but when she is throwing out OMGUS votes to people this early as an act of aggression that is a little more interesting.

The heck Max? Now you're trying to twist the logic like you've no guilt at all, huh. I got agitated because you got worked up over some kind of question not even directed to you. You don't even say anything about the case when you try to talk to Jim here.

And you try to play the oblivious apathetical ground, huh. Like I'm agitated because you 'singled me out' as if you caught someone. Then you twist the story as if I'm OMGUS'ing (you never back it up) without bringing in the context? Oh yeah I'm more inclined to now say that you really do suck given this cheap play.

Jim I'll leave the interpretation to you, but please do read two pages in exact next time?

I don't quite feel up to looking through your posts in the detail required to figure out what both of you are talking about, could you provide me a clean summary of your arguments against each other?

I mean, I could also not quite feel up to caring but hey, you noticed the shallow detail there! It's only a few pages back!
The argument starts here, regarding my question TO PERSUS
Max takes interest and advances an accusation
(I cut the quote there due to his wording in that post) but that refers to me, and my response
Then misinterpretation (as what seemed to me first) happens.
Continue along the post line and you'll see strange reasons back and forth.

Max

...You really can't see what communication is, or you're deliberately prodding me with this assumed ignorance. Max

It continues communication given that you can still talk to him about it. It closes no lines nor does it make any possible conversation become a full stop! How does that kind of scenario even stop anyone from asking him anything? Yes it tells 'I'm wrong and oops!' but it also gives way to other questions along that line! Why did he ask that in the first place? Did he not check back to make sure? Why is he backing off...

All that!

In your hypothetical scenario, you can bring up what he was stating, and then shove it in his face on why he did what he did and query on what he assumed you were doing.

And yes, I'm questioning people who I think are turning out a little suspicious, yourself among them. Do you have a problem with that? I'll target who ever I like.

I've a problem with how you're stating all this. You're only targeting specific people and then homing in on them, without being precise and to the point.

I mean given how what we're discussing has a direct tangent to Persus, I see nothing as of recent note on you poking on him.

Persus isn't throwing out OMGUS votes now, is he? Why do you want to move the conversation to him so badly?

The point still remains that we ask each other questions with the hope of provoking some sort of response. When you interject on these questions, as you did, it may give scum a chance to modify their answers in a way that better suits their needs. You give them information to work from. As far as asking 'Why did you ask that in the first place', I don't see why you couldn't have waited until I gave a reply and saw what I had to say. You seem to have interrupted another players scum hunting.

Anyway, did you shove it in his face?

Sure, you can keep talking, but things would have changed and the initial line of questioning might not be effective anymore. You would have messed up somebodies scum hunting.

Aww, let's use the scummy label of OMGUS to further the fact in public that Tiruin is suspicious.
Think more buddy.
I voted you because of how the heck you're twisting my simple query into a complex web of INTERVENTION and DEFENSE (and a total disregard of the context and origin of those two words and how they relate to you). Said vote, was in fact a pressure vote--I was confused when I saw your vote firsthand, then checked back, then forwarded my curiosity.
It's sticking now given how you're amping up the scale.

The orange part is partly because IT WAS AIMED AT HIM. I'm not aiming at diverting the chat to 'OH LET'S TALK ABOUT PERSUS' but because our argument references what he said, which still continues along our tangent. I asked Persus what he saw regarding you tunneling; is that so hard that you can't formulate your own question back and have to feel hurt and hit on the asker?

The purple point speaks contradiction. You speak to me as if I'm town--given how you're stating 'scum' in that notion--however nobody knows if I'm town or not.

The bolded part is a blatant disregard of thought. You can ask someone damn well anything that is pertinent and still scumhunt and what I get is that you're thinking of it as a linear form of communication?

The green part: Nope. Seeing his response, it's quite the normal response. Unlike yours, which I'm shoving in your face.

Lastly, I ask what interests me, the same as what interests you. The fact that you tried to make a shallow concept of it and then dig a deeper reading (ie reading too much into something and assuming so far that the illogical seems logical) and then try to cater it off to others as a summary really disgusts me.

[Imp]

Caz:  You've made three posts so far.  You've answered questions, asked an RVS question of both Persus13 and TheDarkStar, joked around, reassured Tiruin you'd prefer to behave like a gentlewoman, pointed out that we're not all veterans, and reassured makeinu that he's doing fine.

Do your posts and their content so far reflect how you intend to play for the rest of the game?  If so, what strategy are you using, to achieve what goals?  If not, what are you waiting for before you really start to play?

Toaster:  You've asked two players questions about their questioning of all other players, and each of your questions has included a negatively-directed statement about those players lack focus because of questioning everyone.

Ranger:
Since you're questioning everyone, how will you cope with the loss of focus your questions have?

Imp:
Why did you cast a wide net and question everyone instead of focusing your attention?

Please explain why you percieve questioning everyone as preventing focused attention.

For the record, I am 100% for claiming Kook status first post, and extend this to regular miller in any game I play.

Why?  Furthermore, one possible reaction I imagine is voting you from suspicion that you are not a miller, but a Scum claiming to be a miller.  How would you handle that so that your claim and the reactions it provoked on D1 served Town? 

Sinlessmoon:  You've also made three posts so far.  You've answered questions, questioned makeinu about his reactions to yourself and Jim having been online but not yet posted as of a couple hours after start of play, explained what you might have been doing instead of being aware the game was going, and prodded makeinu when he hadn't answered your question despite having made many posts since your question.

Do your posts and their content so far reflect how you intend to play for the rest of the game?  If so, what strategy are you using, to achieve what goals?  If not, what are you waiting for before you really start to play?

TheDarkStar:  You've made 6 posts so far.  You've made a statement about makeinu being Scummy, applogized for an editing error, answered a question, told makeinu to act less Scummy in future, told makeinu you didn't trust him, he was appologizing a lot, and that if he was being honest you were sorry, and told us you were going off the forum for the day.

Do your posts and their content so far reflect how you intend to play for the rest of the game?  If so, what strategy are you using, to achieve what goals?  If not, what are you waiting for before you really start to play?

Jim:

This will affect how I perceive and treat these players, so it's not a useless fluff question like the words I would use to describe my play style.

Jim:  Arrr.  Be ye a swarthy enough pirate to see us out of this mess?

Aye. Be ye a seaworthy enough sailor to smoothly sail to safety?

I see I'm not the only one who got a 'bad enough dude' vibe from the day opening post.

Explain which side of the fluff-line Toaster's question, your answer to it, and your answering question each falls on?  If these are not fluffy to you, what is the useful purpose you see these serving?

Max:  How important is it to you to determine if a Scummy player is actually Scum or not?  If that difference is important to you, how much effort do you put into trying to distinguish which category a Scummy player belongs in?

makeinu:  How different is your play now from how you expect to play later into the game?  You've made a few suggestions in your posts that you're acting the way you are because that's how you approach a crowd of strange players.  Having done what you've done so far, what are you waiting for before getting down to the 'business' of playing Mafia - which is chasing your Wincon.

How well do you feel you need to know us, before you actually start to do more than 'get to know us'?

When you look at your own behavior, on a scale of 'wow, this player is really an ideal example of Town behavior' to 'wow, this player is really a perfect example of what Scummy is' - where do you see your overall behavior so far this game falling?

[makeinu]

My first attempt at a reply came across obsequious. This is not that attempt.

makeinu:  How different is your play now from how you expect to play later into the game?  You've made a few suggestions in your posts that you're acting the way you are because that's how you approach a crowd of strange players.  Having done what you've done so far, what are you waiting for before getting down to the 'business' of playing Mafia - which is chasing your Wincon.

How well do you feel you need to know us, before you actually start to do more than 'get to know us'?

I feel I've got a good read on the forum and the players now. I'll try for sanity next.

When you look at your own behavior, on a scale of 'wow, this player is really an ideal example of Town behavior' to 'wow, this player is really a perfect example of what Scummy is' - where do you see your overall behavior so far this game falling?

Oh, good lord, self-evaluation, how I hate self-evaluation.

Hardly the former, but definitely not the latter. I suppose, seen from the outside, I'd definitely consider my actions as warranting examination. I wouldn't lynch based on them, barring very convincing arguments.

And please don't ask me what would qualify as a convincing argument. It's like hard-core porn: I know it when I see it.