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Yes.

13 (72.2%)

No.

5 (27.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

[Orange Wizard]

Here's the thing GM linked in the fourth(?) picture in case people can't be bothered typing the link out themselves.

Ok. I think I need to get back in this.

Poppin' on, maybe. This seems like a bad time...

No, welcome! The more the merrier! Once we sort out this civil war, at least.


Anyway: Goldminer. We are not trying to wreck Dumathoin. If anything, we're trying to bring life to it. If we wanted it wrecked there wouldn't be so much discussion about extending, repairing, and improving the place.

If you have a problem with us doing this, we can discuss the possibility of us leaving. However, if we leave and hand Dumathoin back over to you, it will be on our terms. If you try to force us out, we will fight you.

The rest is up to you. I don't want to see this escalate further.

[TheDarkStar]

Is it safe to go now?

[Elephant Parade]

Is it safe to go now?

I believe so. From what I heard from Goldminer (forgot to grab a screenshot, unfortunately) things have been mostly sorted out. Some people are still upset at tahujdt, though.

So now, I have two requests to make.

Goldminer: Please re-add tahujdt to the forge.
tahujdt: In the future, please don't make threats. It certainly seemed like you were threatening Goldminer, even if that wasn't your intent.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

again like i said to him i said he was not trustworthy not everyone else and i gave him access to ever thing but the diamond cauldron. and then he threaten me if i never gave him access he would brake in to it.

Then explain to me why I *still* cannot open half the doors that should be public.

Edit: I vote changing Kingship over to Elephant, because he is the calmest person here.

[Elephant Parade]

again like i said to him i said he was not trustworthy not everyone else and i gave him access to ever thing but the diamond cauldron. and then he threaten me if i never gave him access he would brake in to it.

Then explain to me why I *still* cannot open half the doors that should be public.

Edit: I vote changing Kingship over to Elephant, because he is the calmest person here.

I don't think that I'm active enough to be the king. I wouldn't mind being the official mediator, though.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I don't think that I'm active enough to be the king. I wouldn't mind being the official mediator, though.

That's why you appoint to do jobs when you are away.  Being leader of the civ (king in this case) is basically equivalent to being the official mediator.

[Elephant Parade]

I don't think that I'm active enough to be the king. I wouldn't mind being the official mediator, though.

That's why you appoint to do jobs when you are away.  Being leader of the civ (king in this case) is basically equivalent to being the official mediator.

Do we not already have a king, though? It doesn't seem fair to displace someone.

[Orange Wizard]

I think I voted for MarcAFK a couple of pages back and every seemed to think that made it official or something.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I think I voted for MarcAFK a couple of pages back and every seemed to think that made it official or something.

I think I voted for Elephant back when we were thinking about who would be each noble for the first time.

[Orange Wizard]

I that case, I'm voting for myself.

[Werdna]

If you go in to fight, it will end very badly.

I don't know if you guys read the Civcraft reddit but not a week goes by without someone getting pearled because they came across an area that looked abandoned and decided to loot it or destroy it.  In Civcraft, nothing is abandoned.  People quit, take breaks, and come back all the time.  B12 has abandoned Dumathoin once already, ourselves.  There is strong server-wide support of anyone that claims land, builds on it, and runs it.  Dumathoin is GoldMiner's.  He built it, and he built a lot.  Half the server knows it, even if it is secret.  That includes several heads of state in our area (if you ran around Dumathoin enough, you might've noticed signs for Itaqi and Sanwi's dwellings).  Dumathoin is still Goldminer's in their eyes.

Obviously that leaves B12 in a questionable position.  If you think Dumathoin is rightfully ours, then you're going to need to press that claim on r/CivCraft, or by talking to other countries and convincing other states to recognize our right to it, or by taking it by force.  I will not end well, and I personally want no part.

GoldMiner is King.  Dumathoin is a monarchy.  Our only two real options are to play ball and find a place as citizens in that monarchy, or go found your own dwarf fortress.  Gold has removed group access because he doesn't know who he can trust in B12 anymore, when you guys are sitting here chatting about who could be the new King.  It is easy to break factories if you have access, and they are expensive.

[Orange Wizard]

I don't want to see this escalate further.

War is a last resort. I don't want the Bay12 presence to be rudely shoved out. GM made no objection to our resettlement of the city until now. I think a lot of us assumed he was completely gone.
I can accept that Dumathoin belongs "by right of construction" to Goldminer. I am willing to leave it to him, as well.

The conflict came up when GM, after accepting us into Dumathoin, decides to block out tahujdt and then the rest of us. Without any warning or reason given.

[Elephant Parade]

I, too, do not want to see this escalate further.

How about this: we all write up lists of what we want, and then we discuss how to compromise on these things.

I'll start: I would like it if, in the future, any changes made to permissions lists were immediately noted in the thread. Major changes should be posted at least 12 hours before the changes are implemented. This would enable discussion, and reduce confusion.

Unfortunately, I will be unavailable for most of tomorrow. In addition, I will probably be unable to log onto the server itself (slow connection) for a few days. I should be able to check this thread (and hopefully post) in the morning, though.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

As this whole mess stemmed from basically an unregulated monarchy (really more along the lines of no official government and nobility being out of whack), here's a thought of how to change it to a constitutional monarchy:

The King:
In peacetime, the King has a few duties.  The ceremonial are to mastermind non-religious ceremonies that are voted to occur by the council, and officially induct people into the Hall of Legends.  In terms of power over the laws, they are allowed to veto Council laws, war declarations, diplomatic treaties, megaprojects, and the creation of new positions, but can only recommend these actions if they are desired.  This veto power does not extend to the settling of disputes or inducting people into the Hall of Legends.

In times of war, the King's duties expand to being commander of the military.

Impeachment of the king requires a unanimous vote of the council to enact.  When a king is voted out, elections are held from the volunteers who are not council members.

The Council:
The council meets once every other week.  Once a month, the oldest third of the council is put up for being reelected.  Every citizen is up for being elected, excluding the rest of the council, everyone getting 2 votes, neither vote being allowed to be used on themselves.  The council has three, five, seven, or nine members in total.

The Council's duties include making laws, conducting diplomacy, declaring war, create new positions to delegate tasks to, vote to place a person into the Hall of Legends, commission megaprojects, or settle disputes.  When voting, upon these decisions, every member gets 1 vote.  If the King vetoes an action, the council may override the veto.  With three members, it would need to be unanimous, with five, it would need to be a four-fifths majority, with seven it would need to be a five-sevenths majority, and with nine, it would need to be six-ninths, or two-thirds majority.

At the end of meetings, the council votes to elect a regent.  If there are three members, only one is elected, but if there are more than three, then two are elected.  In times when decisions need to be made immediately, then the Regents make the required decisions within the boundaries of the laws created by the Council.  If no regents are online, then the King makes the decision if they are.  The same restriction of having to act within the boundaries of the laws created by the Council applies to the King as well.

Military:
In times of peace, the Armed Forces act as police, apprehending criminals within the cities under control of <name of the civilization>.  Any hired mercenaries or bounty hunters must work with a member of the Armed Forces, and even then, only against members not a part of the civilization.  Each citizen who is not part of the military has their ender pearl count limited to 2, while members of the military are assigned one stack.  Equipment is to be garnered from taxes, which are divided between the Military, and a Treasury where Council mandated bounties are paid from.

Identification:
Within the first slot, citizens carry their Identification <axe or sword?>.  Civilians use wooden for their identifier, basic infantry have cobble, Guard Captains have iron, Generals have diamond, and the King and Council Members have golden.  Priests have enchanted cobble, and the High Priest carries an enchanted gold.  When not using another slot to perform actions, such as eating, placing blocks, or mining, civilization members need to set their active slot to the first inventory slot.

Religion:
Leader of the religion is the High Priest of Armok.  This person sets out the religious practices carried out by the Priests of Armok, all of whom are distinguished as wearing red-leather chestplates, boots and leggings, with chain mail helms.

[Elephant Parade]

I still don't like diamond armour being limited to the military. Coloured hats vs. diamond helms would be much better; a visual display of caste is not worth such a major sacrifice in armour points.

The council system seems okay, but I'm not sure that we have enough people to make it worthwhile.