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[griffinpup]

Griffionday

Griffinpup:

Well... My quick thoughts on the matter.  I really dislike your team...  My read on Nerjin is fairly town, while my reads on TWS and dariush are scummy. My read on Lenglon is pitiful, especially with this recent power play that had nothing to show for it.

So you'd prefer me to switch the three I have off team (You, Nerjin, & NQT) for Lenglon, Sheep and Dariush?

Absolutely not!!!  Why on earth would you think that's what I'd prefer?  Have I made my opinion of NQT unclear?  I will not upvote a team with NQT on it.  I would of preferred you to switch Nerjin and I with one of the three.

Griffionday:  What do you think about Remuthra's actions?  And can you state concisely why you think Nerjin or I am scum?  A link to your argument would work too, I'm just really busy at the moment and don't have time to find it.

Honestly, I don't like them; he acted idiotically and defensive.  Lenglon has done a lot to restore my confidence in the slot though.  My reason for including him (and Sheep) is process of elimination, I don't want NQT for reasons that he's acting like an total scum basket.  Nerjin or you are scum because I don't see NQT as likely to attempt risky communication unless a campaign had already failed.

It would be just as likely for two scum to screw up on the first mission as on the second.  I think that NQT would of risked communication before the first mission if there was another spy on it.  RVS is just a better place to hide that stuff.  I believe that the fact that he waited until the second mission before attempting to communicate doesn't reflect that there was another scum on mission one, but that there was, or almost was scum on mission two.

DarIUsh:

[/sarcasm]I'm tired of cretins like you and GP getting my name wrong. Get it right or I'm ignoring all vomit you spew until you do.

Dariush, it totally makes sense to get annoyed at people who spell your name wrong.  I UNDERSTAND THAT, and I'm more then willing to spell your name correctly.  Spelling your name wrong, however, ISN'T a scumtell.  Let's make a deal.  I'll stop spelling your name wrong, and you actually attempt to play this mafia game.  Namely, answering my posts and questions.  How's that sound?

GriffionDay: (again)

Griffinpup:

Griffinpup: What's your general take on the situation at hand if a spy: How would you push for distrust within the town?

Hmm...  I think I would play off of the reads of other people.  Point out people that appear to be trying to communicate and make them appear to be spies.

And I wondered why he was so cagey about calling NQT out on communicating.  Outside of that isolated event, his play has NOT been up to the level I expect of him from playing across from him in the BM. 

So let me get this right...  This argument is poorly put together, so I'm kinda going out on a limb to understand what your case is.  What I get from this is that you think that I'm scum because of meta-tells from the one game you've ever played with me.  This particular meta-tell is namely "not playing as well as last time".  That's scummy how?  Also, to answer the post you quoted.  Do you really think that I'd be so stupid as to tell the truth on a question like that if I really was a spy?  If my strategy really was "point out what looks like communication" I wouldn't really tell everyone about it.  Also, where did the rest of your reads go?  You promised them, but they haven't appeared yet.

And silence from NQT...  Why am I not suprised?  Actually, my link might be broken.  I'll try it again

[griffinpup]

Everyone: Please mention your top 3 town picks and your top spy suspect. Please mention why for the suspected spy.

Good:
Griffinpup
Nerjin
GriffionDay/Turuin

Bad:
NQT
Communication attempt, fallacious reads, ignoring my posts multiple times, etc.

[notquitethere]

griffinpup

So you admit to not reading posts without you name BOLDED in them?

Yes. I made it clear at the beginning of the game that I didn't think (unlike in regular mafia) what people say matters much in Revolution, but rather how they vote. You may recall me saying as much, given you've read all the posts.

I read the questions you quoted, then read this paragraph, read the questions you quoted again, then read the paragraph again. You know what I noticed? You didn't answer a single one of the questions you quoted. Now let's try this again.
STOP DEFLECTING MY QUESTIONS, AND ANSWER THEM.

I thought I gave a rather fine answer, but here- I'll reformulate: my supposed 'communication' was just idle talk with my ol' buddy Nerjin. I can see why you'd see it as outlying a spy strategy, but it merely unadvisable rebel play on my behalf. That's my last word on the matter, believe what you like.

So you're OK with putting 2 untrustworthy people on the team, but don't want anything to do with the person that put them there? Why?

I have explained my rationale for the picks for the latest mission, whether you take them at face value or not is up to you.

[Griffionday]

griffinpup:

Griffionday
-snip-
Absolutely not!!!  Why on earth would you think that's what I'd prefer?  Have I made my opinion of NQT unclear?  I will not upvote a team with NQT on it.  I would of preferred you to switch Nerjin and I with one of the three.

I know, I may be out of it, but I'm not completely zombiefied yet.  Yet you had advocated pulling three people off my team... I'm guessing it was to give me options on what team I finally submitted?

So let me get this right...  This argument is poorly put together, so I'm kinda going out on a limb to understand what your case is.  What I get from this is that you think that I'm scum because of meta-tells from the one game you've ever played with me.  This particular meta-tell is namely "not playing as well as last time".  That's scummy how?  Also, to answer the post you quoted.  Do you really think that I'd be so stupid as to tell the truth on a question like that if I really was a spy?  If my strategy really was "point out what looks like communication" I wouldn't really tell everyone about it.  Also, where did the rest of your reads go?  You promised them, but they haven't appeared yet.

*ducks head* yeah you read the case right, sorry it was not... elegant.

Your not playing as well isn't scummy by itself, however your focus seems to have shifted away from things that you would have noticed last time I played with you.

Uh... because telling the truth is the easiest way to lie.

Also, sorry about the reads, I've been coming home and crashing these past few nights, so I've been unable to follow up on that promise.  I'm getting

NQT:

EBWOP-- I meant Remuthra as the obvious suspect (I mix up the players in my head just as I always conflate Deathsword with Toaster), but frankly if there was only one scum on the first mission there's good reason to lie low so in my mind Nerjin and Griffpup are almost equally as suspicious.

It depends-- if I were a spy and there were one or two other spies on the team I dare say I'd be tempted to lie low. In general though I would tend to sabotage. That got the spy team in the last game off to an excellent start (especially when the other rebels idiotically voted in Leafsnail for a second time).

Any comment on the contradiction?

[notquitethere]

That is quite the contradiction! I suppose it's fair to say that there are good reasons to either lay low or to sabotage the first mission. I would tend to sabotage as a spy, but how I would act shouldn't be generalised for everyone. Many strategies can lead to a spy win and so we shouldn't make any sweeping assumptions about the spy-to-rebel composition of the first successful mission.

[griffinpup]

I'll get back to you eventually, Griffionday. 

Nice selective manipulation of posts, NQT.  Responding to half my post, ignoring several questions, and answering questions as if they were addressed to a different time period.  Please, try again.

[notquitethere]

Nope. If you didn't like my first two sets of answers I don't think you'll like a third. I answered all the pertinent points.

[griffinpup]

That would be a valid point if you actually answered the questions.

[TheWetSheep]

Nerjin: Good: Myself, Griffinpup, and... I'm not sure about the last one. Scum: NQT. After most people started assuming he was scum, he had a very "meh" reaction to it. If you're town at this point and 80% of town thinks you're scum you will lose the game if you don't do anything to defend yourself. Also, he has failed to deliver his analysis of votes that he's been promising for a very long time.

Why are you posting in the BM but not answering my question here?

Why did you not ask us to give reasons for our three town picks?

NQT: Where is your vote analysis?

[notquitethere]

Oh! I did collate all the votes and the only significant thing at the moment is that Tiruin is most likely town and one or more of Nerjin, Griffpup and Lenglon are spies. I said as much a few RL days ago, when I posted the full record for others to use (though apparently no one has looked at it).

[Nerjin]

Sorry, forgot about these. Now to answer them.

What I meant was that she threw caution to the wind with her own reputation. She still deliberated a huge amount with the other people she was putting on the team. But do you disagree with her logic that, as a rebel, she needed to be on the team?

If she were town it does make perfect sense that she needed to be on the team. BUT of everyone else she put on that team I had a MUCH better read on them. It also makes sense as scum that she "needed to be on the team." Sorry Sheep but I just can't see Lenglon being town at this point.

I feel that these players have shown nothing but townie tendencies for the most part with any deviations being forgivable for a variety of circumstances.I cannot say the same for the remaining players. Dariush is, of course, the weakest pick however I feel that he is a better choice than the remaining three [NQT, Lenglon, and Sheep]

So. You, the person who was imploring me to give full, detailed explanations on every one of my picks because I was team leader, give the same explanation for every one of your five picks. An explanation that boils down to "they look townie".

Since I have to pick five people I felt it easier to say why I didn't want the other three on the mission. Process of elimination left the other five as the best choices.

NQT is out due to his communication attempt and utterly terrible play.

You are out due to what I see as tunneling and a LOT of weak cases that you didn't really seem to believe [I viewed it as throwing stuff at a wall to see what stuck] Though you are by far the "scum" player I'm least sure of I'll admit as I can see it being somewhat bad town play just as much as bad scum play.

And Lenglon is out due to her power play, being on 100% of failing missions [I and pup were on 66% of failing missions I'll admit but we were also on a suceeding one.], and adding in that bit with Remuthra... i just don't trust her.

Why are you posting in the BM but not answering my question here?

Cause I'd forgotten about/Hadn't seen them. Plus those in the BM need me a bit more than you fine folks. Adding into the fact that no one has said much and... well I figured my time was better spent there.

Why did you not ask us to give reasons for our three town picks?

If I made it a home-work assignment I get the feeling that most people wouldn't do it. Plus you all took so long to get even that in that I had to just go ahead with my team pick. I had planned to build a team using my own reads as well as the towns "votes" but that didn't pan out so well.

[griffinpup]

Oh! I did collate all the votes and the only significant thing at the moment is that Tiruin is most likely town and one or more of Nerjin, Griffpup and Lenglon are spies. I said as much a few RL days ago, when I posted the full record for others to use (though apparently no one has looked at it).

I am always amazed by your cognitive skills.  Turuin's is probably town because she downvoted a failed mission, and out of Nerjin, Me, and Lenglon, one of us must be spies because we were on failed missions.

But since you're into analyzing over answering questions, here's some for you.  Let's ignore everything everyone has ever said.
On mission two there was one sabotage, making it certain that there was at least one scum on that mission.  On mission three, there was three people from team two.  However, there was STILL only one sabotage attempt.  It's statistically unlikely for there to be two scum on BOTH missions with a sabotage attempt.  Therefore, It's likely that only one of the three constant variables are scum.

[griffinpup]

Dariush! buddy
I would greatly appreciate it if you stopped lurking, ol' buddy ol' pal.

[TheWetSheep]

NQT: So you're just going to say "Well, I didn't learn much from that, but I guess it's all I can do?


Nerjin:

[I viewed it as throwing stuff at a wall to see what stuck]

What is the difference between this and scumhunting as seen in Dak's scumhunting Bible?

[Griffionday]

That is quite the contradiction! I suppose it's fair to say that there are good reasons to either lay low or to sabotage the first mission. I would tend to sabotage as a spy, but how I would act shouldn't be generalised for everyone. Many strategies can lead to a spy win and so we shouldn't make any sweeping assumptions about the spy-to-rebel composition of the first successful mission.

This answer tells me nothing about what was going on in your mind when you made both those statement.  Please go into as much detail as possible on what you where thinking in each of those situations; or if it's more relevant, please let me know what changed your opinion between the two posts.