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[Toaster]

Tiruin:

PFP

That's quite the narrow viewpoint you've got there, as well as the lack of definitives, Toaster. I take it you're not seeing my context on him when you accuse me of 'defending'? Explain how I would go out of my way to defend someone flailing like that, given your take on me.

Lack of definitives?  Here's a definitive for you.

RangerCado is anti-town and needs to be lynched.

My take on you is that you can spin endless wordy arguments when someone is running counter to your arguments, be it a lynch case on you or someone you don't want lynched.  If you're putting that effort into Ranger, which is pretty much to the exclusion of everything else at this point, you REALLY don't want him lynched.  It's gone beyond "I think he's town and therefore a mislynch" and into "he's my scumbuddy and I want to save him."

PFP Query to those voting Ranger: "How would a claimed Third-Party (despite his antics) be seen as scum due to his flippety-jumpyness? He also has an inspect--something of which would be fairly deadly in scum's hands, but if he flips scum (wherein I read flailing non-mafia), then it would prove that bullies attack via houses--Is that mainly the case on Ms. Cado?"

The first sentence simply makes no sense.  Why are you so ready to believe his claim?  And what?  How the hell would his flipping scum prove anything other than he's a lying liar who lies a lot?

More than anything else from my main post, I want your answer to that last question.

[Tiruin]

You seriously think I'd be going off to defend someone flailing like that, Toaster?..and if he's a lying liar, then why're you pointing over the fact of him being third-party, then accusing of being specifically anti-town? Anyway:

How the hell would his flipping scum prove anything other than he's a lying liar who lies a lot?

I can sense by wording and in judging from his previous posts that he isn't just wasting time in lying lying lying and fluffing the thread with his words as there's quite a fine line between accusing, evading, deflecting and lying. From that line, I find it unrealistic, in any form or way, for someone to just puff out a claim like that out of thin air when nobody currently has stated anything against Ranger (vote or otherwise) and then for him to flip up in his own claim/case on something which is totally related to the claim: house number. How he proceeded onwards at the point puts him in my eye as a newbie, especially since he's being quite frank about everything. The fear of scum targeting him (which, IMO, would hardly be an excuse scum themselves would use when caught in that situation) seems like the simplest idea. He doesn't stand on the notion of post-school/pre-house visits, hence me concluding that.

The hesitation seems to be the defining characteristic of most cases on him. Next is, you advocate a lynch on Ranger yet all I see in your past posts is a facade of aggression, along with the obstinacy of an opinion--something you're not backing up given how you word it. You're quite convinced: Why? What posts led you there?

If you're putting that effort into Ranger, which is pretty much to the exclusion of everything else at this point, you REALLY don't want him lynched.  It's gone beyond "I think he's town and therefore a mislynch" and into "he's my scumbuddy and I want to save him."

Mm, the aggression bleeds muchly. You'd not answer my own question on why you're jumpy on the idea of my 'defending' Ranger?

I think you need to reasses your definition of the word "confirmed."

So what's your case on him? What makes him non-third party?

And why are you only posting now?

[Shinigami_King]

Oh hey Dar Dar~

I find it quite upsetting that you refuse to respond my case against you. The fact is, of course you wouldn't. The pressure is on and you are on the run. If you try to respond to my points you're going to either slip up or run into a wall when you find that my case on you is solid and you have no means to avoid the inevitable. If you really want me to summarize my case for your lazy ass I'll do just that.

Dariush is scum! Now that I have given you a summary as to what my case on you is I think it's time to defend yourself. If you have any questions feel free to ask and if you are interested in the details you can review the OP.

I would like to note that you complain about my lack of content and my fluff posts but when I show meaning behind my posts you refuse to believe it and when I put out a solid case you refuse to even read it. I would also like to note that I have just received some time, not all of my time and I asure you that when I get all of my time I will address your other scumbuddies. Until then I will drive this strongly built and true case down the freshly paved road of scums annihilation.

[RangerCado]

Dariush: So let me get this straight. You're saying my arguement that you're tunneling me is void... Because you started hunting the only other player voting you? Well after the fact that i accused you? And now you're not even going to read their case against you because they showed no interest in you previously!? Why are you even playing? You're being lazy and self centred, hunting someone without even reading their posts? Go and read it, answer Shinigami's questions, and answer the ones i just gave you. Also, so what if Solifuge is lurking, there are 11 other players you could be hunting, trying to figure who my buddies would be if i were mafia. And i think this is appropriate for what your doing:

Dariush used deflection! Its not very effective. (rant against him over... Now to Toaster)
Toaster: I'm not using the "go hunt others" thing as a defence. Every context i've used it in has been to accuse Dariush of tunnelling me and ignoring everyone else. He's convinced i'm mafia and isn't likely to change his vote, so why doesn't he look for my other Mafia buddies as well if i'm so guilty? Leafsnail did similar things, but he is actually answering questions posed to him, and thinking his posts through. Unlike Dariush who has just jumped at every oportunity to yell profanity at me, and now Shinigami as well.

Why have you been gone so long? (most of that time was weekdays so no using that excuse) Why am i "anti-town" and not mafia? And why, like Dariush and Leafsnail, do you believe lynching me regardless of whether i'm telling the truth or not, will not harm the town? (If i'm telling the truth, town loses another vote working with them)

[notquitethere]

"I'd much rather Dariush-yōgisha be suspended than Ranger-kun. One thing we can be sure of is that she isn't a bully, so even if she's not very useful, we're wasting our time worrying about her."

[Toaster]

Tiruin:

You seriously think I'd be going off to defend someone flailing like that, Toaster?..and if he's a lying liar, then why're you pointing over the fact of him being third-party, then accusing of being specifically anti-town? Anyway:

Believe it?  I'm watching you do it.

Because he's anti-town, as in his interests are against the town.  Even if he's telling 100% truth, his interest in town only lies in a single male townie finding his way to his doorstep- he has no true investment in scum hunting.  More likely, he has an actively anti-town alignment, up to and including mafioso.

How the hell would his flipping scum prove anything other than he's a lying liar who lies a lot?

I can sense by wording and in judging from his previous posts that he isn't just wasting time in lying lying lying and fluffing the thread with his words as there's quite a fine line between accusing, evading, deflecting and lying. From that line, I find it unrealistic, in any form or way, for someone to just puff out a claim like that out of thin air when nobody currently has stated anything against Ranger (vote or otherwise) and then for him to flip up in his own claim/case on something which is totally related to the claim: house number. How he proceeded onwards at the point puts him in my eye as a newbie, especially since he's being quite frank about everything. The fear of scum targeting him (which, IMO, would hardly be an excuse scum themselves would use when caught in that situation) seems like the simplest idea. He doesn't stand on the notion of post-school/pre-house visits, hence me concluding that.

This doesn't answer my question at all.  What relevance does this have to attacking house number as opposed to player?

The hesitation seems to be the defining characteristic of most cases on him. Next is, you advocate a lynch on Ranger yet all I see in your past posts is a facade of aggression, along with the obstinacy of an opinion--something you're not backing up given how you word it. You're quite convinced: Why? What posts led you there?

Why do I need to quote something that bloody obvious?  Hell, you admit you see it as well? [1]

If you're putting that effort into Ranger, which is pretty much to the exclusion of everything else at this point, you REALLY don't want him lynched.  It's gone beyond "I think he's town and therefore a mislynch" and into "he's my scumbuddy and I want to save him."

Mm, the aggression bleeds muchly. You'd not answer my own question on why you're jumpy on the idea of my 'defending' Ranger?

If I missed a question, can you point it out?  I'm not sure what you mean about being jumpy about you defending him.

I think you need to reasses your definition of the word "confirmed."

So what's your case on him? What makes him non-third party?

Oh no, don't you dodge that.  I'm not ruling out him being third party, but you have zero grounds to confirm him as non-mafia.

And why are you only posting now?

Because I just now got to it.

[1] Since I know you won't drop it until I quote the obvious for you, here:

I've said many times in many games before that dribbling out a claim rather than putting it all out in one piece is scummy.  Ranger executes the dribble claim here:

Spoiler: Spoilered claim- note each quote is a separate post by him (click to show/hide)

I'm claiming a pro-town third-party role. Didn't think it smart to claim day 1, (look how that ended last time) so i waited. (plus my win-con just got harder, so better to help you guys)

I can also confirm a few things. Abilities can target a house, affecting all the occupants. I believe i know which house Tiruin is in so yes someone was there with her. Theres probably a third-party helper for the bullies.

I also can inspect a house to know how many people were in it during the night. And I can't leave my house. Ever. It bites.

Tiruin: Because my win-con requires the town alive, it got harder with Lenglon's death, and i'm betting theres some sort of alignment checking role that will find me not town. (seriously, my luck is terrible when i care what the outcome is) And i inspected a house and was told there were two people in it so i may know where you live... dang it creepy sayings.

creepy saying: I know where you live.

I also didn't inspect house 8 so that narrows it down a bit.

I need town-alignment players whos roles are male alive. Lenglon had a male role so that made it harder for my win-condition now that she's dead. Helping the town as a whole works better for this because i have no clue who has a male role.

I must spend a night alone with any town boy to win. And since i can't leave my house, it is very difficult to do this without a lot of luck, and since me dying doesn't hurt the town as much as it would a full town role, i can just buffer a hit from a stray NK.

Dariush: Tiruin said someone visited her house. I got a result that two people were in a house together.  (I'll say which if Tiruin thinks i can be trusted) So i guessed i may have gotten her house. As far as i know, my house just becomes unenterable. If i say my house number, i just labeled myself as an NK target. And if they do target and kill me, fair guess is the NK works normally. If not, it could be house based.

Five posts to dribble out a claim, and that's before the house number nonsense.  That's way too long to do a claim.

Speaking of house number nonsense...

Spoiler: Spolied again- note these posts are chronological order (click to show/hide)

If 2 more people ask for my house number, i'll give.

Claim your house.

Dariush: lets put this up to the public. you as well as 2 others (i think) have told me to claim my house. If 3 more ask, i'll do it, and i'll blame you if i die tonight.

If that doesn't set your scumdar ablaze, it's time to get it recalibrated.  Or replaced.  Or it doesn't matter because you're his scumbuddy, one of the above.



NQT:

"I'd much rather Dariush-yōgisha be suspended than Ranger-kun. One thing we can be sure of is that she isn't a bully, so even if she's not very useful, we're wasting our time worrying about her."

How?


Ranger:

Toaster: I'm not using the "go hunt others" thing as a defence.

It sounds like you are.

Why have you been gone so long? (most of that time was weekdays so no using that excuse) Why am i "anti-town" and not mafia? And why, like Dariush and Leafsnail, do you believe lynching me regardless of whether i'm telling the truth or not, will not harm the town? (If i'm telling the truth, town loses another vote working with them)

I missed Friday.  Sue me.

I consider it possible that you are some other flavor of third party (SK, some sort of abductor who will run off with a townie) so saying anti-town just encompasses all possibilities.  The last question is answered by your own statement- all we have to go on is your word, and I put zero worth in your word right now.  Also, see above- even if you're telling 100% truth, you're still inherently self-interested.

[RangerCado]

Toaster: Self-interested yes, but not in anyway against the town. We already have an SK dead, (atleast a few people think that judging from Vecoosters role name) so unless you believe there is a second, I'm not an SK. An abducting role i could see from the person with the satelite picture, but Ford has claimed he just smashes a house and then becomes a normal townie in that house (Which also explains why we can't vote him. He's in space... Is he also immune to NKs?) ... I wonder if it can be an abandoned house... And where have i used it as Defence? I can think of ONE time it could be seen like that. And you can't discredit that as just being me defending myself, They were tunnelling and Dariush only went after Shinigami when he placed his vote on him. Dariush has basically OMGUSed Shinigami and i wouldn't be surprised if he does the same with NQT... though he should give better reasons than just the fact that he thinks lynching me isn't worth it.

[RangerCado]

EXTEND. We're still missing solifuge. Ford has disappeared along with Death, and Birdy. And we need a replacement for Phantom. Thats 5 players that should put some input in today. (Note: If solifuge doesn't show up by the time the lynch happens, he should be replaced)

[Shinigami_King]

Hello my ninja friend, I was just about to say the same thing. Extend. There has been a deafening silence over the weekend. I want Dariush to properly respond to my case. Ford, while not capable of voting is still capable of giving some insight on the situation from his throne in the sky and I am curious to hear what he has to say. GriffionPup and Birdy are relatively active members and neither of them are voting. PotL has requested a replacement and I had actually forgotten Death was still playing so I would like to hear from him and see if he still stands beside his vote. I'm also curious as to what he thinks of the cases flying around in the forum.
In other words. Deathsword- I want your reads, not on players themselves but on how much weight their cases carry. Who in your opinion is weak, bandwaggony, chainsawing or strong. In this case a percentage out of 100 would be nice. (100 being perfect no flaws and 0 being no reasons what so ever). Also, I think it would be interesting to hear an honest opinion of where you would place your case on that scale as well. I think it's important that things are concrete and everyone has a say in our vote so I do encourage others to extend and put in some content.

[ToonyMan]

EXTEND. We're still missing solifuge. Ford has disappeared along with Death, and Birdy. And we need a replacement for Phantom. Thats 5 players that should put some input in today. (Note: If solifuge doesn't show up by the time the lynch happens, he should be replaced)

There's no need for Solifuge to get replaced since he's playing.  I've sent Webadict and Ottofar PMs about Phantom of the Library.


Vote Count

(1)Griffion - Zombie Urist
(1)Leafsnail - Tiruin
(0)Captain Ford -
(0)Toaster -
(0)Tiruin -
(3)Dariush - RangerCado, Shinigami_King, Notquitethere
(0)Zombie Urist -
(0)Phantom of the Library -
(0)Shinigami_King -
(4)RangerCado - Toaster, Dariush, Deathsword, Leafsnail
(0)Deathsword -
(0)Notquitethere -
(0)Solifuge -
(0)Birdy51 -

(5)Not Voting: Giffion, Captain Ford, Phantom of the Library, Solifuge, Birdy51

Day 2 will last until Monday 6/17 at 11 PM EST

RangerCado and Shinigami_King have requested an extension.  If four more people request an extend day will be extended 48 hours.  I'll count Phantom as extending because why not.

[RangerCado]

Solifuge is playing??? He's been gone from this thread for almost a week or more... wait... What if he's the cat person and he takes a nap every other day? Probably not correct but... what else do we have to go on?

[Shinigami_King]

Silly Ranger "cat can't catch no fish". What I'm insinuating is while I'm pretty sure that was a joke it kind of sounds like weak role fishing -__-

Quote from twilight princess 

[birdy51]

Oh, and on the subject of tunneling - the textbook definition is 'relentlessly attacking someone without any or extremely weak reasons'. And yet the only defense you have presented to me is that I am only attacking you. Except I am not, but you ignored it, because you're fuckdamn stupid.

Wrong answer Dariush. Get your facts straight before you go flying off the handle again.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tunneling

Confirmation Bias or Tunnel Vision is when a player becomes convinced by their own arguments by virtue of how long or how strong they hold them. It is a form of Logical Fallacy, much like Appeal to Probability but applying to the person who makes the argument, not their audience.
 
It is not always a false assumption, but it can be blinding to new or better options that come along, because they do not match the player's "pet theory".

Whether or not you might realize or acknowledge it you, Toaster, and Leafsnail have become fixated on the idea that Ranger is scum. Quite frankly, I don't quite see your point in forcing out a dis-involved Third-Party and thereby wasting a lynch in the process. If that makes me look scummy, so be it. I've said my piece about there being two kinds of arguments.

You are so damnedly set on whatever perceived "targets" you may have, that you refuse to even acknowledge the very thought that you might be wrong. Rather, you seem to believe that sitting around and hurling insults until people leave you alone is the correct course of action. If another player isn't doing what you want, then you insult their integrity until they leave. In other words, you have become a manipulative bully in both contexts of this game.

Dariush, I do not trust any notion of yours in the slightest. If anyone is to be lynched, I would prefer it to be you. You are a tunneling, bullying fool and I am tired of your incessant bullshit that has somehow persisted through this entire game.

EXTEND. We're still missing solifuge. Ford has disappeared along with Death, and Birdy. And we need a replacement for Phantom. Thats 5 players that should put some input in today. (Note: If solifuge doesn't show up by the time the lynch happens, he should be replaced)

Calm down. I haven't disappeared anywhere.

Also, I am not going vote to extend this time around. This Day has lingered around long enough.

[zombie urist]

pfp You tied the vote >_> Rangercado

[RangerCado]

pfp You tied the vote >_> Rangercado

So i'm scummier than Dariush? And theres 5 hours left still. Reasons please.