Bah so much posts. ;(
Oh come on people. I propose something, and then get suspected for the base idea of giving out a thought. Am I advocating it? I'm proposing it because I suspect TolyK. That's the reasoning behind it and...everything else beforehand isn't answered. Wow. >_>
TOLYK: ANSWERS.
... I don't have any pending questions, do I? If I do, please. Link. Me.
TolyK:
Could you be a bit more explicit on what your poision ability does, what your antidote does, and what happens in the various ways you could die (night-kill, lynch, and any others you can think of)?
Why do you keep posting your "statistical list" when it really has NO effect on how you play? Are you just trying to be confusing?
TolyK:
This had me thinking... Can you vote the same target twice?
I'm pretty sure. My ability just gives whoever I choose another vote.
Vector: Why did you put ZU at L-1 without mentioning it?
TolyK is now at L-1. Please don't hammer. (I voted him to prove my double-vote power, but I might as well vote someone who I find scummy)
... What? Explain the second part in the parenthesis...
Since no votecount ever showed me voting twice at once, he asked me whether I was lying about the ability. I decided to put my second vote down to prove it, and decided that, since I thought you were scummy for what I asked you about, I decided I'd put it on you.
The base reason why I'm going for a TolyK lynch is that it seems too strange for a poisoner-type to be town. The case of missing NKs either prove a very good redirector/delayer/doctor. The fact that I can't protect against TolyK's power is also a factor...except that my protect is worded in a way that I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect poison...Wait. Ok, I'm not sure at all because I didn't explicitly ask him. Like, it doesn't say that I protect him[target] from a kill, it says that 'I make sure e' stays safe by healin' em up'.
Yes, I see the problem by me proposing it, but perhaps that's one thing with the definition of words over other things considered. Was my wording wrong when I said propose instead of 'what do you think?'? TolyK himself addressed the thing about scum NK'ing him, but he never addressed it from the point of him being lynched at all.
Yes. I'm tired of all this beating around the bush regarding information so I'm giving it all out here. I did you in during N1, Griff. I acted upon Hapah during N2.
Also, he's claimed he's like a vig. He didn't claim a vig.
If you choose to treat him as such, then very well. If he doesn't follow through with what he said would do? That part is fallible. Where I see he's not acting in the interest of town is how his day-game was done, he adapted a joking attitude and a wishy-washy manner regarding answering people's questions--pretty much picking out the superficial reasons leading to continuous questions later on rather than stating the answers directly to the point, and his reason for joking is being 'cheerful.' I can imagine being cheerful can be done in any other way when regarding serious business such as this. How is he allowed to prove himself reasonably trustworthy? You tell me that. The only way I guess that you can see if he's trusted is if people die according to what he stated.
He isn't answering my questions.
... considering I haven't posted. And WHICH QUESTIONS?
I promised this so here it is:
I'm aiming to calculate worst case here; my assumptions reflect that.
There are nine of us alive.
Hapah is town will be Mod-killed today or tomorrow
There are two scum left
No SKs are left.
Town lynches Tiruin, but she was town all along.
TolyK lied: he is a scum, and more than that he plans to go out in a blaze of glory. He doesn't antidote anyone and lets both people die. During the night, he NK's me, who he knows is not protected by any measures, leaving five people alive: Three town and two scum: one who's just outed himself.
Hapah is Mod killed, bringing the total down to 4; wining the game for scum.
Let's assume the same as the last time: we lynch Tiruin, she turns out town; yada yada:
TolyK proved himself honest at least for the night, killing sheep and leaving NQT alone
During the night we finally have a mafia kill, and come the next day Hapah is eliminated due to mod kill.
This leaves us at five people: three of whom are doomed. Why? Well it doesn't matter who we lynch, two of the town are poisoned and will die before the day ends. Bringing town down to one poor soul who will be killed in the night. Game fin. Scum win.
Let's say we lynch a town TolyK and both his poisoned targets die.
There is a night kill + Hapah mod kill so were down five town.
3 town, 2 scum live.
It's lylo to be sure, but that isn't the instant death we face is TolyK is scum.
Conclusion: TolyK is FAR too dangerous to leave alive.
WARNING: L-1 DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY AGREE AND CAN PROVIDE A CASE.
Second: Shes being a hypocrite by voting Tolyk. I know this isn't a scum tell but hear me out. I voted Tolyk today saying that we shouldn't be afraid of the backlash of killing someone that you believe to be scum. Tiruin was totally against this despite suspecting him herself. Shes now voting him with the same disregard of him poisoning people that i did previously and has acted angrily to anyone pointing out what the backlash might be.
I'm still clarifying whether I can save the people who were poisoned or not...While TolyK has answered the scumkill effect, (and something about him being in a certain state for it to work...), he hasn't answered whether it carries on in a lynch.
...Why am I being a hypocrite in voting TolyK?
I don't get his logic as well... What?
TolyK I asked you about how you did those ties back there.
I "made sure that I can prevent a scum multi-kill" by asking Webadict what would happen if scum killed me in a certain state.
What certain states are that? And, is there any situation wherein your poisoned targets die if you do? I can see that a scumkill doesn't equal your targets dying if you die, however does the same happen any other way?
See end of post.
In case I die, my projected scumteams:
Vector-Ranger-Tiruin/TWS
Hapah-Vector-Tiruin/TWS
Hapah-Toaster-Ranger
NQT-any_2_other_folks
What is the use of this and how does this matter? You missed Zrk2.
I missed Zrk2 because I'm assuming 4 scum.
And that was a last-word-before-death sort of thing, when the day was coming to an end.
1) Can you refresh us on your statistical list? How does that help catch scum?
2) Why'd you summon a planet?
3) What's with this comment regarding NQT? It's quite obvious it was showing his inclination.
1) That was what was left from D2.
2) Just fun. Why'd you ask Wuba about your blood pressure? Same thing. Why did Vector conjure a crown? Same thing.
3) In case he missed it, I know that I sometimes miss things that don't have my name in bold written.
Back to TolyK
...Actually, could you explain your poison/antidote thing more closely? A full explanation is necessary in this case. Why should you hide your catch?
See end of post.
Your Poison is a night ability. Your Antidote is a multi-day ability. You've clarified with Web that if scum kill you, your poisoned targets won't die - does this work in any other kind of way wherein you die: Day-kill/Nightkill or Lynch?
Yes. Yes. Yes, and it works with all methods of my dying.
Why did Arsonist be the first thing you stated?
That was the first thing that came to mind to explain the lack of NK.
...And at this rate, and the time before Monday, I'm really going for full-claim-status.
That might be for the best, yes.
PPE: How do you believe I'm town again, Griff?
...And re-reading and re-reading my PM again I believe I can save people from poisoning. Err...I guess. (Look, I checked the dictionaries on what it was described as...Yeah, you people can laugh at me given its obvious description, but I'm making sure.)
... what?
WARNING: L-1 DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY AGREE AND CAN PROVIDE A CASE.
...Ok? We've until Monday btw. Happy Weekends.
While I do see and understand you taking the assumption-worst/bad case as poisoned targets being town, could I ask on one point?
Let's assume the same as the last time: we lynch Tiruin, she turns out town; yada yada:
TolyK proved himself honest at least for the night, killing sheep and leaving NQT alone
During the night we finally have a mafia kill, and come the next day Hapah is eliminated due to mod kill.
This leaves us at five people: three of whom are doomed. Why? Well it doesn't matter who we lynch, two of the town are poisoned and will die before the day ends. Bringing town down to one poor soul who will be killed in the night. Game fin. Scum win.
[
...TBH, That bad case thing is scaring me in a bad way on how you took things. May be a personal mistake or lack of detail but...what?
Considering that scum usually have a vanilla "Mafiakill" ability, it's actually very likely (if this was the case).
TolyK: As I've not really presented a case that you can fairly defend yourself against, I must apologize for that. Here is an actual case to compensate:
Heh. I can't fairly defend myself against that? True, but that's because I likely have the most killing power (minus a possible arsonist
).
Your list has been bothering me for quite a while: you presented it as "here, I'm doing things, have some math" then hand-waved the math away as "just based on gut instinct" then hand-waved the whole thing away as "just pseudo-statistical, not actually my reads"... Then you posted an updated version. Why not just save everyone a ton of trouble and just post your reads rather than that list that you say doesn't have any real bearing on your play?
Wait, what? When did I say the math was baised on guy instinct? Nobody asked for my reads, however I most gave them with the "possible scum teams if I die".
You don't seem to have thought as carefully about your ability as the rest of town did after you presented it. You miss problems that your ability has and aren't seeing the shear power it gives you to tunnel people and force them to crack, preferring rather to be a puppet of the town. Why did you stop pressing sheep near the start of the day to defend your action? It's not like sheep didn't post between your previous post and your WoT.
What are you going on about. I got my read on NQT D2. I was planning to do something similar on Sheep, when people pestered me with "Why poison Sheep when there are already so many people voting for him" (even though I did the poisoning BEFORE the day started, so I couldn't have known). And then I get bogged up with questions.
You then don't interact with sheep until here. And you're not really poking him here, just defending yourself from him.
From that same post:
Also, why exactly are you suspicious of Griffionday?
If the next ones to look at are Griff, Ranger and Tiruin, why aren't you poking at them?
I ain't suspicious of Griff for any reason other than statistical, which I believe I explained before.
As for your second question, you do have a good point. But I'mma do that as soon as the mess settles down a bit more.
Why wait? You're not really doing all that much right now.
You see the mess settling down yet?
I have yet to be useful enough right now.
As you noticed.
Finally I must insist that you give us all the details you know about your two abilities, including what happens on various types of death.
As I said to Tiruin, see end of post (coming up soon).
About a complete complete claim.I'm still not sure about whether I should do that or not. If we all do a fullclaim, then I'm all for it. However, before we do, I'm gonna be talking with my lawyer.
What I have told you so far:
(Night) Poison [target] - I poison my target. They will die at the end of the next day.
(Day) Antidote [target] - Multiuse per phase - I give an antidote to my target, which let's them live one more night and one more day.
I have a third ability, which I won't say yet.
If I die in any way, the people I poisoned don't die (poison stops working). If I get lynched, then NQT and TWS will live.
Are we doing a massclaim?
Author
Topic: Magic Mafia - Game Over! (Read 222235 times)