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Author Topic: Magic Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 220627 times)

Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1035 on: May 02, 2013, 05:00:20 pm »

PFP - Stress. Really annoying stress.



Oh come on people. I propose something, and then get suspected for the base idea of giving out a thought. Am I advocating it? I'm proposing it because I suspect TolyK. That's the reasoning behind it and...everything else beforehand isn't answered. Wow. >_>

TOLYK: ANSWERS.

Quote
Ranger's case on you is absolutely conjecture, and pretty much rubbish; as I'm sure your aware.  Why then does your fate hinge on his confirming or denying your ability having targeted him?  Also, you don't have to answer, but what ability did you use that will give him notice of your target?
I resetted Hapah's One-shot.



Hapah needs a replacement. Probably won't get one at 1000 posts. Guess I'll have to modkill.
Oh come on!

OK. Tiruin is almost certainly scum. First, she thinks it's fairly reasonable to kill three players in one foul swoop when there are probably at most two scum remaining and it's not likely Toly would have poisoned a fellow scum if he isn't town. Killing three people just for the off-chance to catch one is pretty lousy odds:

And then she wants to know my lovers picks-- just like Zrk2 had done before her:
Almost. Certainly?!

Goodness. Can you be more passive-aggressive given what everyone has been posting about.

Bloody hell. Let me speak before you condemn me without any conclusive evidence. I was comparing why in the world were you giving off information like that in comparison to your lover'picks. One thing is, you're assuming they're both town. That is the main reason why you're not giving it off. I proposed-

Spoiler: Propose? (click to show/hide)

-you be thrown in with him because of your antics. One is, you keep on doing that claim thing everyday--or perhaps every-mid day and then keep on changing the story based on what I've seen before. First its lovers, then its trapsetting on the lovers. Then you suspected people on an incredibly obvious case on your lovers targeting you even after you stated that your lovers can't NK you. Then you finally come out D3, after a long time of people debating and talking without you to mention that you've NK Immune'd yourself from two people--Vector and Me, N1 and N2 respectively when you could've done the same during the first moments of the day and nothing would've changed.

The funny thing is, that's a rare case out of the multitude on the lover-town thing. You trusted those people being fairly town, sure, that's understandable. However you're so sure about it--but not scumhunting during anything as of recent note, relying more on your power, then going all 'SURPRISE' during the day with big bolded claim caps--I see nothing following the case that you were scumhunting during D3 at all given the lack of posts other than questions on who acted during the night.

Which was really weird given that case of you mentioning the lack of NKs a day before. Let me link it:

This was when you stated immunity from lover kills.
And you still suspected them for some reason? You had a good vague smokescreen here. Check the spoiler above- that's what I'm basing my incredulous reaction on you for--you already stated the trap yesterday, yet still suspect a lover hit you at the time. Now if you'd realize (or probably poke at me back, whatever), I targeted Hapah N2. The reason on why his response is so crucial is because it shatters your case on me; a case that people are picking up for whatever reason, and going along your directional signage.

Alright, with the lack of Hapah claiming anything, you'd go on with what you know without asking anyone else on what they'd think. No. You stated instead on a generality, 'If there was no other block/redirect...and a list of role actions- Tiruin is scum.'

You did not ask the thoughts of others, and are now getting pretty uppity given me proposing the poisoner.

Ability 3: Auto ability protecting me from my targets night kills:[...]
I mean, I already suspected this much from a long time before, when you first stated that notion of the lover bond and that link and you suspect that I'd NK you. Read up on the thread for the context other than relying solely on your actions for one, please.


Toaster:
PPE:  Oh man, modkill threat.  I'll feel silly if digging that up was in vain.
This actually answers my suspicion nicely, so thanks for the reply.


Tiruin:
TheWetSheep, NQT (I'm leaning on saving the lover) however, I've a proposition to think about.

Why don't you kill them both, and then get lynched. Best scenario is that if you're scum...well, one scum poisoner down. If you're town, then conclusions draw into matters on conjunctions--are your targets scum or town? We're decided and debated for more than enough days, the general consensus is in suspicion on TWS due to his antics...While I am suspicious of you because of your antics (and that I'm really against poisoners being town...), the proposition above seems fairly reasonable to me.
So you don't want to him to kill NQT, but you want him to kill NQT... What?

"Let's lynch you and let two others die!" Yes... totally reasonable proposition.
Yeah, guess why. I can't protect anyone from what he does. I'm not even sure if my protect did anything unless we'd account for what happened D1 (or...as far as how my protect was described). Because then, I protected you during that time--explains most of why I trust you, and in lieu of the state of matters during that time. The idea that there were no NKs during both days gets me worried...what if the scum NK is not actually an NK (and all those immunity things)...and what UI could do being an SK. Why I'm saying it now? Because I'm darn tired of waiting for any sort of information to come out and to at least clear things up based on the matter of 'What the hell happened' during those times.

NQT. Tell me this one thing. If a mass claim is not in towns interest because...for that reason you answered me here, detail it. Why do you keep on giving off information like that? Because for one, the primary thought coursing through my head when I see all that is you acting as a directional sign. 'Oh look this is what happened.' > changing the course of action. Now, I'm really concerned given how people are following it -- I don't suspect Ranger much despite his...life preservation skills and begging because I'm holding out the newbie card on him; newbie in the way that he's relying more on his role than on scumhunting, but doing the latter is also sincerely evident in the way that he's trying.

PFP Hate. Hormones.

PPE
We've got a dead mafioso- what happened to looking for scum teams?

What happened is that I have four papers and a final to deal with over the next two and a half weeks, for a sum total of about ~60 pages of writing.
Yeah, I can vouch for her :/ She's darn busy with a ton of work...

Toaster- I was afraid someone would bring that up. Thus far I've tried to only reveal as much of the truth as I can without giving too much away to scum. But okay: here's the reconciliation.
This doesn't make sense. Its the town flailing at this point based on the superficial reason that giving away too much would help scum; that's a good reason, but hanging onto that reason for consecutive days and a prolonged period of time? Scum know who town are and want to kill them. That much is obvious -- I'm not sure on anyone, nor can I see how anything happened before that helped this sort of reasoning - hence my reaction on you given the above statements. Kill me, lynch me, whatever. I am leaning on the prospect of Griffy being town, and Hapah being... :/ well. Given that you redi-

What are the reasons for you redirecting those pairs NQT?

Query.

Toaster- I was afraid someone would bring that up. Thus far I've tried to only reveal as much of the truth as I can without giving too much away to scum. But okay: here's the reconciliation.

The Bigger Claim

I have three abilities. One is a lovers one shot, one is an auto-protect, all as previously described. The third ability wasn't work quite how I described:

Ability 1: One-shot lovers ability as described earlier
Ability 2: Night ability targeting two people, redirecting the actions of one to the other
Ability 3: Auto ability protecting me from my targets night kills: permanently in the case of ability one, temporarily in the case of ability two.

Night One, I targeted Zrk2 to Vector. It's pretty embarassing but I got it muddled in my head and claimed it happened the other way round and I only realised when I was rereading my sent messages the other day (by which time the damage had been done). This still means that Vector could have targeted me with an NK and if she did it wouldn't have worked. It also means that if Zrk2 used his NK, it would have hit Vector. She has soft claimed that it wouldn't have killed her.

Night Two, I targeted Griffionday to Tiruin. This means that Griff probably didn't use an NK last night. Tiruin could have attacked me or Vector in the night and depending on the truth of Ranger and Vector's claims, this could account for the lack of an NK.
So its linear? The weird thing is the bolded parts. The lack of an apostrophe gives me the idea that you made yourself immune from:
a. Your lover bond which is permanent.
b. Your target(s)-meaning those who you redirected, and who you redirected upon. Strangely, you firstly noted that I was redirected to someone else--if so, then someone's one-shot had been resetted. The blue part gives off suspicion, but nothing else as nothing was seen (but really. You misunderstanding your own results and not announcing it in the first place?)

Where did Vector soft claim? Also @ last bolded part: That's what I meant by information...its all on a claim-case basis except that most other facts are still hidden because we're working on what is given out.

Why are you afraid that someone would bring that up? Appealing to your conscience and not telling it earlier, huh.

Griff
Just as a preference I'd prefer not to be poisoned in the night at least not until we get a more complete ability claim from you, but if you insist on continuing down your statistical list that's your prerogative.
Why are you fearing a poison?
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1036 on: May 02, 2013, 05:12:25 pm »

Ugh, i hate being sick. I'll post something substantial in a bit.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1037 on: May 02, 2013, 06:26:47 pm »

Tiruin
Oh come on people. I propose something, and then get suspected for the base idea of giving out a thought. Am I advocating it? I'm proposing it because I suspect TolyK. That's the reasoning behind it and...everything else beforehand isn't answered. Wow. >_>
The problem is by proposing it, you imply that this is something that should be actively considered.  Seeing as it's contradictory to your vote for who TolyK should poison/antidote I'm unsure what exactly your feelings on it are.  So it feels like you're going "Hey think about this" and then when we do and decide that its a bad idea (at least according to us) you turn around and say "I never advocated it"; which seems like you're flip-flopping.   

Yeah, guess why. I can't protect anyone from what he does. I'm not even sure if my protect did anything unless we'd account for what happened D1 (or...as far as how my protect was described). Because then, I protected you during that time--explains most of why I trust you, and in lieu of the state of matters during that time. The idea that there were no NKs during both days gets me worried...what if the scum NK is not actually an NK (and all those immunity things)...and what UI could do being an SK. Why I'm saying it now? Because I'm darn tired of waiting for any sort of information to come out and to at least clear things up based on the matter of 'What the hell happened' during those times.
Two things:
I'm assuming you're role claiming doctor yes?
About TolyK: He's claimed he's a vig.  I'm choosing to treat him as such: If he doesn't follow through with what he said he would do I'll try to get him lynched, if he doesn't act in a way that he's capable of defending as pro town, I'll try to get him lynched, if it comes down to lylo (which I really need to check the timing of... later tonight) and only one scum has turned up I'll try to get him lynched.  If you can show me how he's not acting in the intrest of town, more than "I just don't like a town poisoner" then I'll happily help try to get him lynched; but right now he seems to be willing to let the town direct his kills, so I'm fine with him.  I probably should press him on the details of who dies when, but for now I'm reasonably satisfied with his actions.  Why are you so insistent on killing him before he's allowed to prove himself reasonably trustworthy?

Griff
Just as a preference I'd prefer not to be poisoned in the night at least not until we get a more complete ability claim from you, but if you insist on continuing down your statistical list that's your prerogative.
Why are you fearing a poison?
He's claimed that he doesn't see me as scum, so I wanted to see his reaction to the suggestion that I was his most likely next target due to his statistical list.


TolyK:
Could you be a bit more explicit on what your poision ability does, what your antidote does, and what happens in the various ways you could die (night-kill, lynch, and any others you can think of)?

Why do you keep posting your "statistical list" when it really has NO effect on how you play?  Are you just trying to be confusing?
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TheWetSheep

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1038 on: May 02, 2013, 08:03:23 pm »

Woah. I can't keep up with all this. I really don't want to have to request a replacement, though. I'm really confused right now. (I guess it doesn't really matter a whole lot, though, since I'll probably die by poison soon.

Toaster:
Sheep:
Your case on me is a crap case. No, I'm not going to give any reasoning for why it is. I'll just say it's a crap case, and it should be good enough for people, right? Granted, there's not much wording around that vote, but that's not the only place I showed my suspicion. Also, it had a whole lot more reasoning than your previous two votes for me.

Okay, then I won't unvote you.  Not like I was likely to anyway, but hey.
That was me poking at you saying my vote on ZU with a crap vote without expanding on it.

TolyK:
This had me thinking... Can you vote the same target twice?
I'm pretty sure. My ability just gives whoever I choose another vote.

Quote from: TheWetSheep
Vector: Why did you put ZU at L-1 without mentioning it?

TolyK is now at L-1. Please don't hammer. (I voted him to prove my double-vote power, but I might as well vote someone who I find scummy)
... What? Explain the second part in the parenthesis...
Since no votecount ever showed me voting twice at once, he asked me whether I was lying about the ability. I decided to put my second vote down to prove it, and decided that, since I thought you were scummy for what I asked you about, I decided I'd put it on you.

Griff:
I find meta arguments against a specific player to typically be wifom (as Ford pretty conclusively proved with Zrk2), especially when drawn from outside games that you haven't played in.  I also ignored the one about the votes because I consider it to not be a scum tell, as that whole sentence was to point out the parts of your case I consider valid.
Okay, but I still think that being noncommittal and vague like ZU was is scummy.

The reads correlating to scumpicks? It's the same thing as bandwagoning, but on a mass scale. It allows him to blend in. I mean, when someone lays down a bandwagon vote, you don't say, "well, it's not scummy since he agrees with the majority opinion".
Nope; completely different.  A bandwagon vote is scummy because it show that the voter didn't have a valid argument of their own when they cast a lynch vote, and are piggy-backing off of other players when determining where to cast their vote.

Having a similar read as the rest of town just means that you agree that in general most of the rest of town is doing a decent job so you're letting them do the leg work until they dig up enough that you can put together a case on their target.  Typically a player's one or two people their pressing will not be as in sync with the rest of town, because that's where you can be productive in developing a case.[/quote]
But did he have good reasons for his scumlist?

Sorry, not enough time to compile my argument for ZU. There was someone who compiled everyone's cases on ZU, though, right? It should be there.(I'm rushing now)
That was me.  I'm asking you to compile a more complete one when you get the time.
Alright.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
How is agreeing for the most part on who seems scummy with the exceptions of where you are personally poking at all a scum tell?
The bolded part is fundamental to the question.
It isn't, necessarily. If you have good reasons for your scumlist it's fine. But ZU was adding very little of substance, especially relating to his reads.

How do you pay enough attention to the votes to be able to say that his reads are suspicious because they match who is being voted for at the time but not enough to know you were hammering?
I looked at his list, looked at the votecount, went down and noticed how they correlated, and called him out on it. In the games I've read I haven't seen many hammers, so I wasn't really expecting one.

Tiruin: I'm seeing what you're getting at now. Sorry about the blood pressure.

I've explained why I think you're lying. And I think I've explained why lying makes you scum here:

Quote
You as scum would have a little bit to gain(you said you had indicated your suspicion of TolyK before, but you hadn't. If this was just a misjudgement on your part, saying you had forgotten to send in your post would have been a lot less scummy, and I was already suspicious of you), whereas I can't see a Towny doing that.
I'll amend "a little bit to gain" to a moderate amount; something like that would have at least put some considerable suspicion on you.

I've already given reasons for why posting that post doesn't clear you. It's the kind of post that could have been written at any time, not to mention that you said posts, not post.

I know it's not really the kind of thing you can defend against, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make you scummy.

About RangerCado? I can see your point, but it feels different to me. I mean, I'll need to look closer at the Ranger thing, but there was definitely a townie motive for it.

Suspected lying, as in, I think you're lying, therefore I think you're scum. I can't be sure about anything.
And lying is no longer the only thing that makes you scummy!

First: Convenient, isn't it, that the only person who can confirm you is up for replacement?

Second: You say you're done playing the newb card on me. You continually say that you find me at least somewhat suspicious. Why don't you vote me? And why are you so quick to give me the benefit of the doubt?



Really sorry I can't do more; hopefully I'll catch up sometime(probably the weekend).

Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1039 on: May 02, 2013, 08:46:32 pm »

Tiruin
Oh come on people. I propose something, and then get suspected for the base idea of giving out a thought. Am I advocating it? I'm proposing it because I suspect TolyK. That's the reasoning behind it and...everything else beforehand isn't answered. Wow. >_>
The problem is by proposing it, you imply that this is something that should be actively considered.  Seeing as it's contradictory to your vote for who TolyK should poison/antidote I'm unsure what exactly your feelings on it are.  So it feels like you're going "Hey think about this" and then when we do and decide that its a bad idea (at least according to us) you turn around and say "I never advocated it"; which seems like you're flip-flopping.
...>_>

I never said I never advocated it. I said that it was a proposition, something to be considered--inasmuch as people say 'if there's anything I've missed, please do say.' or 'Opinions everyone?' See the spoiler I've posted on the meaning of propose/proposition because that's what I meant on it. Tell me, how my usage of English fails me once again, please.

The base reason why I'm going for a TolyK lynch is that it seems too strange for a poisoner-type to be town. The case of missing NKs either prove a very good redirector/delayer/doctor. The fact that I can't protect against TolyK's power is also a factor...except that my protect is worded in a way that I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect poison...Wait. Ok, I'm not sure at all because I didn't explicitly ask him. Like, it doesn't say that I protect him[target] from a kill, it says that 'I make sure e' stays safe by healin' em up'.

Yes, I see the problem by me proposing it, but perhaps that's one thing with the definition of words over other things considered. Was my wording wrong when I said propose instead of 'what do you think?'? TolyK himself addressed the thing about scum NK'ing him, but he never addressed it from the point of him being lynched at all.

Quote
I'm assuming you're role claiming doctor yes?
About TolyK: He's claimed he's a vig.  I'm choosing to treat him as such: If he doesn't follow through with what he said he would do I'll try to get him lynched, if he doesn't act in a way that he's capable of defending as pro town, I'll try to get him lynched, if it comes down to lylo (which I really need to check the timing of... later tonight) and only one scum has turned up I'll try to get him lynched.  If you can show me how he's not acting in the intrest of town, more than "I just don't like a town poisoner" then I'll happily help try to get him lynched; but right now he seems to be willing to let the town direct his kills, so I'm fine with him.  I probably should press him on the details of who dies when, but for now I'm reasonably satisfied with his actions.  Why are you so insistent on killing him before he's allowed to prove himself reasonably trustworthy?
Yes. I'm tired of all this beating around the bush regarding information so I'm giving it all out here. I did you in during N1, Griff. I acted upon Hapah during N2.

Also, he's claimed he's like a vig. He didn't claim a vig.


If you choose to treat him as such, then very well. If he doesn't follow through with what he said would do? That part is fallible. Where I see he's not acting in the interest of town is how his day-game was done, he adapted a joking attitude and a wishy-washy manner regarding answering people's questions--pretty much picking out the superficial reasons leading to continuous questions later on rather than stating the answers directly to the point, and his reason for joking is being 'cheerful.' I can imagine being cheerful can be done in any other way when regarding serious business such as this. How is he allowed to prove himself reasonably trustworthy? You tell me that. The only way I guess that you can see if he's trusted is if people die according to what he stated.

He isn't answering my questions.

Query here. What were you thinking.



...TWS.
Quote
First: Convenient, isn't it, that the only person who can confirm you is up for replacement?
Ooohh, I'm scummy for that too. How reasonable. Did you know that Hapah requested a replacement during Day 3? How would I know that. Also, prove how this makes me scummy. How convenient is it regarding my case?

Quote
Second: You say you're done playing the newb card on me. You continually say that you find me at least somewhat suspicious. Why don't you vote me? And why are you so quick to give me the benefit of the doubt?
Because your only case is actual BS on me. You vote me due to me lying, and yet you've subtly evaded me query of how you see Ranger - it feels different?! What kind of reasoning is that. There's definitely a townie motive? Heck, you should remember it by now since you're somewhat more believing of him than on me, especially since my 'lying' case is only your opinion on something that was already fricking done. I still can't fathom the reasons of you poking me in that way, and tbh, my intuition isn't ringing well with you. But heck, I've one vote. The idea of you having two votes really prods me that it indicates town because giving it to scum? Yeah, well, this is a BYOR but that factors in.

What can I gain by a moderate amount of suspicion. You're not making any sense at all with that.
Quote
I'm pretty sure. My ability just gives whoever I choose another vote.
So why don't you vote me, huh? Expound on your reasons on Ranger in comparison to mine, and expound on your case on me -- why do you think I'm scum. I'm asking this to you again because you've never explained the basis of lying = scum here. This concept of lying is only in your mind, btw. Can you prove it? Not unless you go against international laws and try to hack into the Philippine networking system. But that's all moot, the post is down and you're still prodding me for fluff.

Your explanation of lying making me scum for the consequences it entails? Unreasonable. Let me rephrase your attack on me:
Quote
You as scum would have a moderate amount to gaint; something like that would have at least put some considerable suspicion on you. (You said you had indicated your suspicion of TolyK before, but you hadn't. If this was just a misjudgement on your part, saying you had forgotten to send in your post would have been a lot less scummy, and I was already suspicious of you), whereas I can't see a Towny doing that.
Why can't you see a towny doing that? What do you consider, equals a townie? How can you define people as town here?


Darnit I feel people are only acting on the posts on the page they see instead of going back to read the intentions and motives of the person in question. Whatever, too busy now.
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Vector

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1040 on: May 02, 2013, 09:25:05 pm »

I'm sticking with my vote on TolyK.  I feel like by open-sourcing his poisoning, he's abdicating responsibility for the results.

After all, he said himself that he wasn't really being careful about it.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1041 on: May 02, 2013, 10:31:20 pm »

I have a terrible headache as i post, and read back so please forgive me if i ramble.

Tiruin: I trust NQT's claims because i day inspected him yesterday. I toyed with the idea he was godfather-esque, but he's given me no reason to believe that theory. And could you tell what you mean by my "take on day 2?"

Griff: I've been getting rather sick lately so i've ended up being more reactive than active lately. I have the day off tomorrow so i should be able to be more precise.

My case against Tiruin: For most of Day 1 i saw her as town. Day 2 she showed some slight scumminess in the way she answered questions in a way that felt... deflective but i gave the benefit of the doubt as i was going after ZU at the time. Day 3 has really shaken things up.

First: We have her discounting every theory given for the lack of an NK that, while not much of a scum tell, seems to be showing an aversion to finding out why there have been no NK's.

Second: Shes being a hypocrite by voting Tolyk. I know this isn't a scum tell but hear me out. I voted Tolyk today saying that we shouldn't be afraid of the backlash of killing someone that you believe to be scum. Tiruin was totally against this despite suspecting him herself. Shes now voting him with the same disregard of him poisoning people that i did previously and has acted angrily to anyone pointing out what the backlash might be.

Third: And finally we come down to NQT's claim. I stated the way i saw the facts from this and I trust NQT for reasons i explained to Tiruin. The theory i made on last nights events holds true for me and unless Hapah can 100% clear Tiruin's name, my vote stays.

Ugh, this took awhile. I'm gonna go drink some milk, maybe eat, and then come back. ciao
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1042 on: May 02, 2013, 11:58:13 pm »

I promised this so here it is:
Spoiler: Assumptions (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Worst Case (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Just as bad (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: As contrast (click to show/hide)

Conclusion: TolyK is FAR too dangerous to leave alive.
WARNING: L-1 DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY AGREE AND CAN PROVIDE A CASE.


Tiruin
I never said I never advocated it. I said that it was a proposition, something to be considered--inasmuch as people say 'if there's anything I've missed, please do say.' or 'Opinions everyone?' See the spoiler I've posted on the meaning of propose/proposition because that's what I meant on it. Tell me, how my usage of English fails me once again, please.
Your English is fine actually; it's that by proposing the route you become the target of people who disagree; much the way I was with my cult thing.  When you then say: "I never said it was a GOOD idea" it comes off as backing off without providing thoughts on the subject.  I agree with you now for what it's worth.

Yes, I see the problem by me proposing it, but perhaps that's one thing with the definition of words over other things considered. Was my wording wrong when I said propose instead of 'what do you think?'? TolyK himself addressed the thing about scum NK'ing him, but he never addressed it from the point of him being lynched at all.
True and scary considering above calculations.

Also, he's claimed he's like a vig. He didn't claim a vig.
True enough, that was me putting words in his mouth.  Something I shouldn't do.

How is he allowed to prove himself reasonably trustworthy? You tell me that. The only way I guess that you can see if he's trusted is if people die according to what he stated.
He can't; see above.  I was thinking that if he stuck to what town advised we could trust him for a night: turns out I was wrong

Query here. What were you thinking.
I was imagining an ability that if it drew enough votes could eliminate those who were voting for it, with the key term being blood pressure.
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Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1043 on: May 03, 2013, 12:09:04 am »

PFP - Ranger
Discounting every theory? Ok. Aversion to finding out why there's no NK? Now that's blatant misrepresentation.

Thing is, we can't exactly point out the cause or reason of the lack of NKs, but guess at the most probable point. While NQT has a direct hint (targeted Griffy &...me? He hasn't answered whether both people could target him but regardless-) that a NK can't hit him at that time, that doesn't explain much. Sure, the prospect of that being the reason for no-NK is obvious (that being I NK'd him. My defense lies in: Hapah, and any discernible motive back in the thread.). But it is one among the many variables in the game. I know I didn't target NQT (and neither would I have done so) during that time, and the only way that suspicion falls on me is probability - something unproved except that NQT has labelled me as non-NQT'KILLABLE.

The fact that you're going along with it as a vote-thing regardless of most is intriguing Ranger. That comes off to me as subtly undermining my ideas.

Quote
Second: Shes being a hypocrite by voting Tolyk. I know this isn't a scum tell but hear me out. I voted Tolyk today saying that we shouldn't be afraid of the backlash of killing someone that you believe to be scum. Tiruin was totally against this despite suspecting him herself. Shes now voting him with the same disregard of him poisoning people that i did previously and has acted angrily to anyone pointing out what the backlash might be.
I'm still clarifying whether I can save the people who were poisoned or not...While TolyK has answered the scumkill effect, (and something about him being in a certain state for it to work...), he hasn't answered whether it carries on in a lynch.

...Why am I being a hypocrite in voting TolyK?

Ugh, this took awhile. I'm gonna go drink some milk, maybe eat, and then come back. ciao
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


TolyK I asked you about how you did those ties back there.
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I "made sure that I can prevent a scum multi-kill" by asking Webadict what would happen if scum killed me in a certain state.
What certain states are that? And, is there any situation wherein your poisoned targets die if you do? I can see that a scumkill doesn't equal your targets dying if you die, however does the same happen any other way?

In case I die, my projected scumteams:
Vector-Ranger-Tiruin/TWS
Hapah-Vector-Tiruin/TWS
Hapah-Toaster-Ranger
NQT-any_2_other_folks
What is the use of this and how does this matter? You missed Zrk2.

Can you refresh us on your statistical list? How does that help catch scum?

Why'd you summon a planet?

What's with this comment regarding NQT? It's quite obvious it was showing his inclination.

NQT/Ranger: What would be your judgement if I or Hapah flip town (hypothetically given the thinking). Why do you think I would've targeted NQT given that case?

Back to TolyK

...Actually, could you explain your poison/antidote thing more closely? A full explanation is necessary in this case. Why should you hide your catch?

Your Poison is a night ability. Your Antidote is a multi-day ability. You've clarified with Web that if scum kill you, your poisoned targets won't die - does this work in any other kind of way wherein you die: Day-kill/Nightkill or Lynch?

Why did Arsonist be the first thing you stated?

Webadict: Do NOT modkill until the last conscious hour you have on Sunday. Hapah is a working man and is busy during the weekdays due to...err, 12+ hours per day. I guess.

...And at this rate, and the time before Monday, I'm really going for full-claim-status.



PPE: How do you believe I'm town again, Griff?
...And re-reading and re-reading my PM again I believe I can save people from poisoning. Err...I guess. (Look, I checked the dictionaries on what it was described as...Yeah, you people can laugh at me given its obvious description, but I'm making sure.)

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WARNING: L-1 DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY AGREE AND CAN PROVIDE A CASE.
...Ok? We've until Monday btw. Happy Weekends.

While I do see and understand you taking the assumption-worst/bad case as poisoned targets being town, could I ask on one point?

Spoiler: On that bad case (click to show/hide)
...TBH, That bad case thing is scaring me in a bad way on how you took things. May be a personal mistake or lack of detail but...what?
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1044 on: May 03, 2013, 12:13:43 am »

I thought the Day was ending tomorrow... if we have till monday i'll be next to inactive the entire time. Now i go to bed before my head splits open.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1045 on: May 03, 2013, 01:40:29 am »

Tiruin:
PPE: How do you believe I'm town again, Griff?
I'm confused about you, and unsatisfied with my read on you; however, I feel your claim of doctor is consistent with your actions (especially your constant insistence that you can accept people as completely town... I'm not writing you off as town; but you make a lot more sense to me now.  If you're talking about being used as "town" in the examples, well; you second highest voted.

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WARNING: L-1 DO NOT VOTE FOR HIM UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY AGREE AND CAN PROVIDE A CASE.
...Ok? We've until Monday btw. Happy Weekends.
  Well, I may be gone after tomorrow and people keep complaining about the person who put it at L-1 not being clear about it.

While I do see and understand you taking the assumption-worst/bad case as poisoned targets being town, could I ask on one point?

Spoiler: On that bad case (click to show/hide)
...TBH, That bad case thing is scaring me in a bad way on how you took things. May be a personal mistake or lack of detail but...what?
Right sorry: that case also was assuming TolyK was scum, just not completely blatant about it.  And by finally I meant that one occurred after two nights with no night-kill.


TolyK:  As I've not really presented a case that you can fairly defend yourself against, I must apologize for that.  Here is an actual case to compensate:

Your list has been bothering me for quite a while: you presented it as "here, I'm doing things, have some math" then hand-waved the math away as "just based on gut instinct" then hand-waved the whole thing away as "just pseudo-statistical, not actually my reads"... Then you posted an updated version.  Why not just save everyone a ton of trouble and just post your reads rather than that list that you say doesn't have any real bearing on your play?

You don't seem to have thought as carefully about your ability as the rest of town did after you presented it.  You miss problems that your ability has and aren't seeing the shear power it gives you to tunnel people and force them to crack, preferring rather to be a puppet of the town.  Why did you stop pressing sheep near the start of the day to defend your action?  It's not like sheep didn't post between your previous post and your WoT.

You then don't interact with sheep until here.  And you're not really poking him here, just defending yourself from him.

From that same post:
Quote from: TheWetSheep
Also, why exactly are you suspicious of Griffionday?

If the next ones to look at are Griff, Ranger and Tiruin, why aren't you poking at them?
I ain't suspicious of Griff for any reason other than statistical, which I believe I explained before.
As for your second question, you do have a good point. But I'mma do that as soon as the mess settles down a bit more.
Why wait?  You're not really doing all that much right now.
I have yet to be useful enough right now.
As you noticed.

Finally I must insist that you give us all the details you know about your two abilities, including what happens on various types of death.
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webadict

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1046 on: May 03, 2013, 09:15:07 am »

This bacon's getting awfully cold...

Vote Count
------------------------
Griffionday -
Hapah -
notquitethere -
RangerCado - Hapah,
TheWetSheep - Toaster,
Tiruin - RangerCado,
Toaster -
TolyK - Tiruin, Vector, TheWetSheep, Griffionday,
Vector -
No Lynch -

Not Voting - TolyK,

5 To Hammer. Day Ends Friday 9 PM Central.
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Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1047 on: May 03, 2013, 11:09:26 am »

PFP- Sleep.

Ok, web addressed it straight. I can't protect vs poison...

Eat bacon...I guess.
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Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1048 on: May 03, 2013, 11:10:32 am »

EBWOP

...Ok. I can't block poison is what was replied. Ugh, sleep ensued understanding.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #1049 on: May 03, 2013, 11:33:24 am »

Okay, we have this day only so everyone place their final vote and arguements. I'll be back in a bit to answer any questions. I hate being sick, makes me groggy
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The best ship is the one where one of them is literally allergic to the other~
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