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Author Topic: Magic Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 221462 times)

Toaster

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #930 on: April 29, 2013, 09:47:56 am »

But yeah, TheWetSheep is totally scum and you should all be voting for him.

Back on D1, after a back and forth with Zrk2, Sheep finally votes him.  He leaves that vote on for a while, without pressuring much else too hard.  But as soon as a fourth vote lands on Zrk2 and he's in line to get lynched, Sheep then unvotes him and begins tunneling Tiruin.  This is a classic distancing move, where Sheep separates himself from Zrk2 then backs off when the heat falls on him.

D2 he just tunnels Tiruin to extreme lengths, until after the modkills.  He votes back on Tiruin, then moves to Zombie Urist to break the tie.  He's confused about the deadline here, but the confusion isn't relevant to his alignment.  It does, however, show him voting for ZU for really contrived reasons (he said that ZU's scumlist was similar to the people who have votes on them.)   Interestingly, after I point out his deadline mistake, he doesn't revote Tiruin, despite Tiruin ostensibly being his top scum pick. 

This is around the point I finally read over Zrk2's interactions and realize that Sheep is scum.  I voted him on a simple vote to provoke a reaction, but I'm already convinced.

Then he hammers ZU with a crap vote.  He throws the Jester card and hammers him anyway.  This is a bullshit sandwich with extra lie-mustard.  He was already scum, but this just seals the deal.

He is scum, and I would say he should be lynched immediately, but...


TolyK
Although I didn't really want to say this until a bit later, I poisoned TheWetSheep last night due to that hammer vote (which felt really off).
I plan on antidoting NQT this day as well, possibly TWS if we get a concensus on that.

Good call, because he's totally scum and needs to die.  However, antidoting him would be silly, scummy, and stupid.  Let me know what you decide so I can go pursue someone else if he's doomed.

Why did I poison someone else this day? Nothing better to do. :P

...Why would you even say this?



As an aside, considering the rash of shit Zrk2 was giving Ranger over minor stuff, I'm willing to bet he's at least not mafia.  This post is a good example.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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notquitethere

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #931 on: April 29, 2013, 11:15:43 am »

Sorry for my relative absence the last few days- busy weekend.

Griff- I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you ever respond to my question asking you whether you took a night action last night?

Toaster- you make some fine arguments. If Sheep flips scum, that would explain him claiming to have possibly been the reason the night one scum attack failed. Who would be your next target though if Sheep flips town?

Sheep
Do you have what you need yet?
No, I need a response from Griff before I make any decision to claim anything. Are you going to use your double-vote to force a tie at the last moment?
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #932 on: April 29, 2013, 11:20:34 am »

NQT:
Griff- I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you ever respond to my question asking you whether you took a night action last night?
Nope, apparently I missed it.

I took no night action.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Reraveling the Universe
« Reply #933 on: April 29, 2013, 11:43:22 am »

Bleh; still unhappy about my reads.  Extend please.


Toaster:
If the last BYOR is anything to go by we have around three(there were five in that game) scum left to lynch.  Who would be your next pick if Sheep flips mafia?


Sheep:
I see jesters as slightly anti-town, they add a smokescreen to the game that confuses scum hunting until they are offed.  As such as town I don't mind killing a jester; I mean why not? You can't really ignore them until they flip so killing them quickly and getting on to the dangerous scum seems to be the normal way to act.  Sure they win, but it's highly unlikely that town will lose because of this. 

On the other hand, I feel scum have a vested interest in keeping a joker alive as long as possible to be able to shift blame to in a defensive reaction.  As well as to keep the smokescreen around for as long as possible.

Zombie Urist: I really hope you're not a jester. You're acting scummy enough, though. You come out with a vote on Griffionday with absolutely no reasoning behind it, then when asked to present your case you switch it. You've been noncommittal the entire game. What is your reasoning for this? Also, you missed my question:
Zombie Urist: Are you a jester?
You've quoted this at least twice now when called to defend your ZU vote, so I'm going to assume it reflects your complete thoughts.  Why are you so concerned that ZU could be a Jester?
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #934 on: April 29, 2013, 11:52:53 am »

Tiruin: Tolyk said he has a fail-safe if he dies so people can't just kill him to get rid of a ton of us. If this is true than its okay to lynch him. Also, Just because he can hold killing others over our heads, doesn't mean we shouldn't kill him if he is being scummy, I see no problem with lynching him for his scumminess if it brings us down to 1 scum.

I'll agree with Griff, EXTEND. We need another day atleast.
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Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #935 on: April 29, 2013, 12:03:08 pm »

Last post before I head of to the wonderful world of academia.

Tiruin:
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Link
Could you expand on why ZU voting for me was scummy and not just more poor town play?  At the very least it had originality behind it.

Also you keep linking back to that post, but I don't really understand what your case in it is; especially now that he's flipped town.  Could you explain how a confusion about the definition of non-standard and reacting to commentary on the game constitute twisting your words?
Could you answer my questions here?

I recently realized my read on you boils down to "You don't seem to be suspicious of everyone." Which obviously isn't really a scum tell... If I've learned on thing from this game so far it that people act differently than I do and that doesn't mean that they're scum; I'm going to plead inexperience for not knowing that before this game.  I'll start trying to find actual cases from here on out.
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Tiruin

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #936 on: April 29, 2013, 12:31:01 pm »

Moody/stressy day. May be partly forgetful.


Ranger
Tiruin: Tolyk said he has a fail-safe if he dies so people can't just kill him to get rid of a ton of us. If this is true than its okay to lynch him. Also, Just because he can hold killing others over our heads, doesn't mean we shouldn't kill him if he is being scummy, I see no problem with lynching him for his scumminess if it brings us down to 1 scum.
So we've got 3 scum, then? Could'ja explain that fail-safe for TolyK somehow? I'm not getting it.

...He has a fail-safe? I thought he said that he 'made sure'. That's what a fail-safe is, right, because that's not how I saw it (stating an exact time? Not sounding like a fail-safe but more like an action).

The bolded part is not what I was talking about. "He holds our lives, don't kill him" -- what? Not what I was aiming for.

Extend

Toaster- you make some fine arguments. If Sheep flips scum, that would explain him claiming to have possibly been the reason the night one scum attack failed. Who would be your next target though if Sheep flips town?
...Wha? If Sheep flips scum, then he's the reason N1 scum attack failed...Ok? How?

Because he claimed an immune-to-night-actions thing to...probably explain why N1, there was no scumkill.

TWS
Do you have what you need yet?
No, I need a response from Griff before I make any decision to claim anything. Are you going to use your double-vote to force a tie at the last moment?
Better question:

Are you going to use that double-vote for any good reason at all? How are you going to use it?



Bleh; still unhappy about my reads.  Extend please.


Toaster:
If the last BYOR is anything to go by we have around three(there were five in that game) scum left to lynch.  Who would be your next pick if Sheep flips mafia?


Sheep:
I see jesters as slightly anti-town, they add a smokescreen to the game that confuses scum hunting until they are offed.  As such as town I don't mind killing a jester; I mean why not? You can't really ignore them until they flip so killing them quickly and getting on to the dangerous scum seems to be the normal way to act.  Sure they win, but it's highly unlikely that town will lose because of this. 

On the other hand, I feel scum have a vested interest in keeping a joker alive as long as possible to be able to shift blame to in a defensive reaction.  As well as to keep the smokescreen around for as long as possible.
...Slightly anti-town? Have you ever played with a jester before? I'm not sure you did, but seeing all the games they had...It was mostly a catastrophe. Going along the lines of random flailing, cheap or contrived excuses, anything to make scummy scum cry at being scummy...and then the WIFOM induced 'You aren't getting that win so easily Jester--Unvote' thing.

...Where did Sheepy sheep ask you about Jesters  ???


Last post before I head of to the wonderful world of academia.

Tiruin:
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Link
Could you expand on why ZU voting for me was scummy and not just more poor town play?  At the very least it had originality behind it.

Also you keep linking back to that post, but I don't really understand what your case in it is; especially now that he's flipped town.  Could you explain how a confusion about the definition of non-standard and reacting to commentary on the game constitute twisting your words?
Could you answer my questions here?

I recently realized my read on you boils down to "You don't seem to be suspicious of everyone." Which obviously isn't really a scum tell... If I've learned on thing from this game so far it that people act differently than I do and that doesn't mean that they're scum; I'm going to plead inexperience for not knowing that before this game.  I'll start trying to find actual cases from here on out.
Missed this :/

...And about that last paragraph, I think you should re-read more.

Quote
Could you expand on why ZU voting for me was scummy and not just more poor town play?  At the very least it had originality behind it.
...'More' poor town play? What's the 'more' got to do with what he was doing then?

And originality indeed. He misused terminology to backup a case (chainsawing...really?) and in that way, the word loses meaning and becomes fluff. There were more sidecomments than actual comments regarding his case on me, but I've to address that poor town play is hard to diffrentiate from 'scummy', well, for me.

I'm confused about the second part (and your whole paragraph, tbh. Originality? More poor town play? What.)
Quote
Also you keep linking back to that post, but I don't really understand what your case in it is; especially now that he's flipped town.
Especially now that he's flipped town? Huh? So his flip has any relation to what I said before...except what I said before was related to what I said in that scumpoint link.

Did you read my case back then? If so, can you explain what you're doing now, in that quote up here?

Quote
Could you explain how a confusion about the definition of non-standard and reacting to commentary on the game constitute twisting your words?
I'm pretty sure this is only a minor part of what I meant in 'twisting my words'. The definition of non-standard games was not what was part of any of my case on him, but as a reply to him accusing me of being dismissive (and his question which I missed between standard/non-standard games). Now, the reaction to commentary shows what the person prioritizes: replying to a remark made on the person (and thus missing the point in turn, like what I said right there) and instead missing the question as a whole would give more of a read on what the person is doing--leading to a follow up. Twisting my words was in how he accused me there. What I saw was that he was trying to avert the situation by using terminology that would shift suspicion or cause it on the player invoked, so I poked at it.

...Are you relating him being town, currently, to disclaiming my case back then because he is town or something else?
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Toaster

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #937 on: April 29, 2013, 12:48:02 pm »

Extend.


NQT:
Toaster- you make some fine arguments. If Sheep flips scum, that would explain him claiming to have possibly been the reason the night one scum attack failed. Who would be your next target though if Sheep flips town?

Good question.  I need to do some digging to get verification, but there are some things I want to check out.


Griff:
Toaster:
If the last BYOR is anything to go by we have around three(there were five in that game) scum left to lynch.  Who would be your next pick if Sheep flips mafia?

See above.  However, I disagree with your numbers.  With fourteen players, I'd expect three mafia.  Given we have a dead SK already, I would expect one more third party that may or may not be hostile, but I'd doubt it.  Likely something akin to a survivor, and a second SK is unlikely.  Personally I am looking for one more past Sheep.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #938 on: April 29, 2013, 12:55:02 pm »

Very quick thing before a big post:
Tiruin, you seem to be defending TWS. Why's that?
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At this point?  TolyK.

TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #939 on: April 29, 2013, 01:00:29 pm »

I hate these walls of text. My wording might be off in some places, as I wrote this in several stages.

TolyK:
So N1 - NQT; N2 - TWS; you can multi-antidote...Day action. Interesting.

So that means your vote on TWS is mostly pressure as you hold the keys to his demise, huh.

Tell me. Is your antidote a PM-the-Mod type which activates it upon PM, or do you PM him once, and then it takes effect. Does it take effect at day end or upon PM (pre-day end)?

Because you're being vague and dismissive of one point. Griffy's question here, bud.
(See below)
It works like a normal day action - I PM Wuba who to save, and that's it.
I take it that it activates as soon as he gets the PM, though I should ask him about it.

Quote from: Griff
Aren't you our resident arsonist?  I highly doubt that there would be more than one person whit a primed kill in the game.

On that note: if you die, will the people you poisoned die as well?  If so please tell me you didn't target anyone last night, as now the scum just have to off you to get a triple kill. 
I have already answered this, though if you want I can say it again.
I'm not an arsonist, I'm a poisoner. If I die, the people I poisoned will die unless I specifically prevent it.

Quote from: Tiruin
I really should joke less.  ::)
And you should try answering for once with a straight post. FOR ONCE. Unlike in D1 - your attitude has become lax and carefree. Care to explain that?

Because your joking mood does not help.
I always try to be cheerful. I don't remember what was different with D1. Sorry 'bout that, though.

Quote from: Tiruin
And why I asked whether anybody did anything on me: I wanted to know if any town person redirected me. Why? I don't want folks to die unless they're scummy, and I want to know who to save near day end. :P
At least here, this explains that you've got two distinct actions and that you should name and choose your antidote-receiver.

However. Funny thing?
Quote
Q: Can't scum just kill you and, with you, two (or even 3, if lovers) more people?
A: Nope, I made sure before the end of N1.
Oh so now we've another day action which does something funny, huh. Or something working in tandem with you poisoning NQT. Because 'before end'.
I don't get what you're asking. I asked Wuba about my role, and got an answer, and so I felt it was okay to do.

EBWOP:
Quote
Q: Will you poison next night?
A: I don't know yet, probably not, unless someone does something really silly today.

Q: Are you out of your mind?
A: Maybe, but I don't think so. :P
Probably? Just like you did TWS because of boredom?

The second line -- joke ain't helping, bro. Answer it straight. And by that I mean answer straight, not that specific question I'm addressing so that you won't squiggle out of this.
... What? As I understand your last sentence...
"Probably" means "not likely, considering the current state of things, but if they change my answer might change.
And I did not poison TWS out of boredom. I poisoned him due to his quick and fairly unbased hammer.

Why did I poison someone else this day? Nothing better to do. :P
Can't scum kill me and get a triple kill? No, I've got a safeguard against that.
Query: was this answered before on if TolyK dies? Searched using the search engine, nothing came up on 'If TolyK dies, then his targets also die for lack of antidote'.
Why would you search for such a specific phrase? That's irrational.

Quote from: Vector
The best part was "I really hope you're a jester..." when he really should've been saying "I really hope you're scum" :P
Why that, TWS? No time for others to think? Meh.

Zombie Urist: I really hope you're not a jester. You're acting scummy enough, though.

This is the quote you're operating off of, in my understanding.  This is... a really, really lazy misquote.  If you were suspicious because of the hammer, why not mention that you were suspicious because of the hammer?  Instead, you misquote and give information we later discover to be bad...
Yes, he said similar stuff before that, as well.
And that was a quick post. And people talked about the hammer right before that.
What information do we discover to be bad?

After all, you yourself said:
If he wasn't scummy enough to lynch, why were four other people voting him?
. . . After all, you seem to really enjoy bandwagoning.
:P

Horseshit.  You misquoted TheWetSheep as the reason for your vote and then quote me saying something unrelated?  This "argument" is so full of holes I could drive an SUV through it >:I
What you say is related, since it is YOU pointing out that TWS "enjoys bandwagoning", on the lynch of ZU, which is TOTALLY related. I agree that I either read or remembered that incorrectly, however the point that he did indeed hammer without letting people say anything still stands.

Tolyk: That role seems to have a lot of parallels to an Arsonist. Is there a reason you didn't claim the failsafe mechanism? (a yes or no will do here)
When did I not claim the "failsafe mechanism"? I'll take that you mean at any time (up until the point that I did claim).
I wanted to see who would vote for me to try and kill NQT as well. Not the case, though.

TolyK:
A couple things about your use of your ability concern me.

1: You are essentially able to cause a lynch vote on your own, and yet you target people who everyone is already focused on rather than tunneling your fainter reads to force them to crack after all you essentially have the ultimate pressure vote.  This feels a bit like you're trying to get town's approval of your actions rather than doing your own scum hunting.  Why the search for approval?

2: This:
Q: Will you poison next night?
A: I don't know yet, probably not, unless someone does something really silly today.
Uh... what? There doesn't seem to be any downside to using your ability; why not just use it to crack someone who you feel is being dodgy?

3: Then there's the whole issue of why you, a claimed vig before last night, aren't dead.  WIFOM possibly?
1.This logic is flawed, in that I poison people BEFORE day start. N1 I used it to get needed info out of NQT (both direct info and other things), he might've got something as well. N2 I used it on TWS because he was my /main suspect/. I voted him to see his reaction. I hadn't actually read any of the posts before that as I was short on time.
2. There's the chance that scum will really want to either redirect me this night (which can make someone accidentally die next day), or flat out kill me, in which case I need to be sure of folks not dying.
3. I don't know. Protect, redirect, or smart scum? I won't try to guess which.

Tolyk:For the sake of the town, i hope this doesn't kill a bunch of people. I just can't trust you. Your logic is flawed, you've poisoned those who were going to be under heavy questioning anyway, and you have yet to ask people questions. Yes you said your too busy answering them yourself but really, you couldn't fit any in during your wall of text?
"For the sake of the town" is such a cliche phrase. You really want to seem like you're townie townie townie. Correct?
About your questions and comments...
a) as I already said, I poisoned at night, before anybody goes under heavy questioning, about TWS.
b) I could, which I try to do. I'm sorry I disappointed your question-savoring part.

Tiruin
TolyK can hammer? How?
He can't; well, no more than I can.  What I meant is that he is capable of offing someone at the end of the day even if no-one is voting them.  This translates in my mind to a LOT of available pressure on his part, as he can effectively say: "Even if no-one else agrees with me entirely, you will be lynched at the end of the day if you don't satisfy me that you're town."  Does that make more sense?
Thank you for explaining.

But yeah, TheWetSheep is totally scum and you should all be voting for him.

Back on D1, after a back and forth with Zrk2, Sheep finally votes him.  He leaves that vote on for a while, without pressuring much else too hard.  But as soon as a fourth vote lands on Zrk2 and he's in line to get lynched, Sheep then unvotes him and begins tunneling Tiruin.  This is a classic distancing move, where Sheep separates himself from Zrk2 then backs off when the heat falls on him.

D2 he just tunnels Tiruin to extreme lengths, until after the modkills.  He votes back on Tiruin, then moves to Zombie Urist to break the tie.  He's confused about the deadline here, but the confusion isn't relevant to his alignment.  It does, however, show him voting for ZU for really contrived reasons (he said that ZU's scumlist was similar to the people who have votes on them.)   Interestingly, after I point out his deadline mistake, he doesn't revote Tiruin, despite Tiruin ostensibly being his top scum pick. 

This is around the point I finally read over Zrk2's interactions and realize that Sheep is scum.  I voted him on a simple vote to provoke a reaction, but I'm already convinced.

Then he hammers ZU with a crap vote.  He throws the Jester card and hammers him anyway.  This is a bullshit sandwich with extra lie-mustard.  He was already scum, but this just seals the deal.

He is scum, and I would say he should be lynched immediately, but...
... yep. I didn't say anything about this myself, but I agree with this logic. However, I'm still unsure what to do with him.

Quote from: Toaster
TolyK
Although I didn't really want to say this until a bit later, I poisoned TheWetSheep last night due to that hammer vote (which felt really off).
I plan on antidoting NQT this day as well, possibly TWS if we get a concensus on that.

Good call, because he's totally scum and needs to die.  However, antidoting him would be silly, scummy, and stupid.  Let me know what you decide so I can go pursue someone else if he's doomed.
Hm. I don't know. You should go "pursue someone else", since in the end you can still vote for him if you want.
Why are you asking me "permission" to do that, though?

Quote from: Toaster
Why did I poison someone else this day? Nothing better to do. :P

...Why would you even say this?
Jokes. Although, they seem to be what got me into this mess, so I'm laying off them for now.

Tiruin:
a) Tolyk said he has a fail-safe if he dies so people can't just kill him to get rid of a ton of us.
b) If this is true than its okay to lynch him.
c) Also, Just because he can hold killing others over our heads, doesn't mean we shouldn't kill him if he is being scummy, I see no problem with lynching him for his scumminess if it brings us down to 1 scum.

I'll agree with Griff, EXTEND. We need another day atleast.
Extends are in bold, btw.
a) Basically, yes.
b) I wouldn't say so, but I guess it's your call.
c) How are you sure we had 3 scum in the beginning?
Do you have any arguments yourself, or are you using others' arguments?

That reminds me.
Why did I make a theory if I don't use it later?
And Extend
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« Reply #940 on: April 29, 2013, 01:23:21 pm »

Alright, looking back...
Fun stuff.

{some info omitted}

So... my theory is in the Ranger-NQT department (see above), the Vector-Zrk2-NQT department, and the Hapah-Toaster department.
Zrk2 was shown to be scum, so that lowers Vector's and NQT's likelihood of being scum. Vector is weakly-confirmed Town.
Toaster was actioned by Hapah to know his alignment (basically), though Hapah wanted to do a multiple-detect, so I'm inclined to believe him. That makes Toaster medium-confirmed Town, and Hapah weakly-confirmed Town.

That leaves Griffon, TWS, Tiruin, Zombie Urist and Me. I know that I'm town, though you don't need to believe me just yet, so I'll assume that.
We have a Scum and SK down, so at most 3 scum.
Given TWS and Tiruin, they got really distanced, so I am inclined to believe they're different alignments, or both town. That leaves 2 of Griffon, ZU and me to be scum, unless off course one or both of NQT/Ranger are scum, which we can find out any ways. So, my likelihoods?

Name - Likely alignment (% chance scum - not statistical, but gut feeling)

Griffionday - Possible scum (50%)
Hapah - Probably town (10%)
notquitethere - Alignment checked by Ranger (40%)
RangerCado - Tied in with NQT (40%)
TheWetSheep - Tied in with Tiruin (35%)
Tiruin - Tied in with TWS (35%)
Toaster - Probably town (10%)
TolyK - :P
Vector - Likely town (20%)
zombie urist - Possible scum (50%)

That is 290% in total, so that's about right, considering I didn't give myself a percentage.

How this has changed:
Griffionday - Possible scum (35%)
Hapah - Probably town (15%)
notquitethere - Alignment checked by Ranger + logic (20%)
RangerCado - Tied in with NQT (30%)
TheWetSheep - Tiruin stuff + hammer + other (45%)
Tiruin - Was tied in with TWS (30%)
Toaster - Probably town (10%)
TolyK - {smiley deleted}
Vector - Likely town (25%)
zombie urist - DEAD TOWN (0%)

Makes 210% total.

Cleaned up:
(45%) TheWetSheep
(35%) Griffionday
(30%) RangerCado
(30%) Tiruin
(25%) Vector
(20%) notquitethere
(15%) Hapah
(10%) Toaster
(0%?) TolyK

TWS is poisoned, so logically the next to look at are Griff, Ranger, and Tiruin. Note, though, if TWS is scum then Tiruin's very likely town.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #941 on: April 29, 2013, 01:40:25 pm »

Tiruin:
Let me know If I missed anything in my explanation:

...Slightly anti-town? Have you ever played with a jester before? I'm not sure you did, but seeing all the games they had...It was mostly a catastrophe. Going along the lines of random flailing, cheap or contrived excuses, anything to make scummy scum cry at being scummy...and then the WIFOM induced 'You aren't getting that win so easily Jester--Unvote' thing.

...Where did Sheepy sheep ask you about Jesters  ???
Never played with them, and don't really recall any notable games with them so...

He didn't, I'm just trying to explain the exact angle I'm pressing him on in the next section.  He essentially said "If you're a Jester, I don't wish to kill you" which I see as a wtf thing.

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Could you expand on why ZU voting for me was scummy and not just more poor town play?  At the very least it had originality behind it.
...'More' poor town play? What's the 'more' got to do with what he was doing then?
Meaning that he'd been doing a really bad job holding down his case and refused to re-read the thread.  This was just more of the same.  I'm trying to determine if anyone's case feels like they should have known better when they were voting for him.  I'm starting to read

And originality indeed. He misused terminology to backup a case (chainsawing...really?) and in that way, the word loses meaning and becomes fluff. There were more sidecomments than actual comments regarding his case on me, but I've to address that poor town play is hard to diffrentiate from 'scummy', well, for me.
Obviously for me as well.

I'm confused about the second part (and your whole paragraph, tbh. Originality? More poor town play? What.)
Well, I don't think being original pays dividends if you're scum (possibly a sign of me never having played scum, but I digress).  Why bother putting yourself at the forefront of everyone's minds by trying to get a read on someone no one else is casing if you can build a safe case on someone else?

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Also you keep linking back to that post, but I don't really understand what your case in it is; especially now that he's flipped town.
Especially now that he's flipped town? Huh? So his flip has any relation to what I said before...except what I said before was related to what I said in that scumpoint link.

Did you read my case back then? If so, can you explain what you're doing now, in that quote up here?

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Could you explain how a confusion about the definition of non-standard and reacting to commentary on the game constitute twisting your words?
I'm pretty sure this is only a minor part of what I meant in 'twisting my words'. The definition of non-standard games was not what was part of any of my case on him, but as a reply to him accusing me of being dismissive (and his question which I missed between standard/non-standard games). Now, the reaction to commentary shows what the person prioritizes: replying to a remark made on the person (and thus missing the point in turn, like what I said right there) and instead missing the question as a whole would give more of a read on what the person is doing--leading to a follow up. Twisting my words was in how he accused me there. What I saw was that he was trying to avert the situation by using terminology that would shift suspicion or cause it on the player invoked, so I poked at it.

...Are you relating him being town, currently, to disclaiming my case back then because he is town or something else?
What I mean is: seeing as he's town, he obviously was not deliberately twisting your words.  Okay then, on that basis what do you think he was doing, and why did he interpret your words that way?

Please understand: I DO get that he was scummy and deserved his lynch: I did vote him after all.  What I'm more curious about now is your analysis of how he was playing, and if you feel that in retrospect you should have seen in retrospect that he was town.

...And about that last paragraph, I think you should re-read more.
Tell me something I don't know.


PPE: TolyK:
1.This logic is flawed, in that I poison people BEFORE day start. N1 I used it to get needed info out of NQT (both direct info and other things), he might've got something as well. N2 I used it on TWS because he was my /main suspect/. I voted him to see his reaction. I hadn't actually read any of the posts before that as I was short on time.
2. There's the chance that scum will really want to either redirect me this night (which can make someone accidentally die next day), or flat out kill me, in which case I need to be sure of folks not dying.
3. I don't know. Protect, redirect, or smart scum? I won't try to guess which.
1. I don't see how this prevents you from tunneling them to the point of exhaustion, but on the other hand I don't have your perspective.

2. I'd... not thought of that.  Is there a way you can antidote everyone you're not targeting in the case that a scum DID redirect you?

3. See above.
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TolyK

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #942 on: April 29, 2013, 01:43:20 pm »

That's possibly a good idea, however I'd hate to trip on a "mine" or something...
Hm..
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Griffionday

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #943 on: April 29, 2013, 01:52:56 pm »

Consider it.

I think we're up to five votes for an extend, so you should have a reasonable amount of time.
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RangerCado

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Re: Magic Mafia - Day 3: Bacon And Begging
« Reply #944 on: April 29, 2013, 02:17:57 pm »

Tolyk: My reasoning for 3 scum are as follows.
1: We had an SK around who wants to kill everyone so there is the third-party danger.
2: Combined with the SK, 4 town enemies seems the max Web would have put in with the number of players.
3: I play an FPS deception game called trouble in terrorist town. I make a point of figuring out the ratio of innocent vs traitors in that game so i know how many people i should be watching out for, which is similar to how you'd balance a Mafia game.

Tolyk, this may be a little early to say this but i wouldn't try to poison me. I don't want to give it away yet, but there will be chaos for the town if this happens.
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