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[Cthulhu]

I'm of the school of thought that the Friend Zone doesn't exist.  The Friend Zone is (I'm going with the traditional gender orientation here for simplicity, not implying it only happens this direction) when the girl "just wants to be friends" despite all the guy has done for her.  The tacit assumption is that she owes him.  She's a vending machine, he pushes the right buttons and receives sex/a relationship.  "I'm in the Friend Zone" is code for "I was nice to her under the assumption I'd get laid for it, and she isn't holding up her end of the bargain"

That's fucked up.

[forsaken1111]

I agree with Cthulhu. The whole 'friend zone' thing only exists for people who think the ultimate goal of any relationship is physical intimacy. There is nothing wrong with just being friend with someone, male or female. If you are 'stuck' in the friend zone, it just means that you are friends. Celebrate the friendship, don't resent it. It may blossom into something more, it may not, but that isn't for one party in the relationship to decide. Escalating a relationship has to be mutual.

[Aqizzar]

Word.  I'm trying to stay optimistic with my little spiel and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but there's definitely a portion of guys out there like that, not limited to but pretty common among guys with little social experience with girls or concepts beyond the desperate quest to get some.

[MaximumZero]

ForeverAlone.com

Just so you're aware, that's taken, and it's an homage to the foreveralone meme.

[Kagus]

I have this bizarre feeling that I've been misunderstood somewhere along the line, but no real clue as to how or where...

I was just trying to say that you shouldn't try to be "just friends" with someone, act like "just a friend" with someone, and earn their trust "as a friend" with the goal in mind of becoming more than a friend.  Just so it was clear.


And I'm not entirely sure what you're all talking about with the "Friend Zone" not existing...  I always was under the assumption that it was when one party wanted more from the relationship than the other party did.  In that sense, it most certainly exists.  I've been on both sides of it.  A fair amount of the "Friendzone Stories" are about people going out of their way to do things for the other person because they're inspired to do so out of their affection, not as an "insert charm, receive genitals" shtick (although that also happens, by all means...).

So...  Yeah, color me confused.  Friend Zone in that sense most certainly exists, and it sucks like hell to be in it.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Women "friend zone" unless you become attractive to them, that's about the gist of it. Works that way vice-versa.

It doesn't work any other way, heh. You'd be surprised how the whole "I just want to be friends" thing fails to stand up to the test when you get in shape and know a woman for years. But I suppose that's my own experience.

[Cthulhu]

Honestly, I've never seen a friend zone story that didn't boil down to "She isn't repaying my kindness with a relationship, something is wrong here."  It's often dressed up nicer than that, but when you read into it the subtext is there.  The other side of the coin is the doormat who bends over backwards for her and puts her on a pedestal.  That's just as bad, and when he complains about the friend zone it's the same thing.

[Kagus]

Women "friend zone" unless you become attractive to them, that's about the gist of it. Works that way vice-versa.

It doesn't work any other way, heh. You'd be surprised how the whole "I just want to be friends" thing fails to stand up to the test when you get in shape and know a woman for years. But I suppose that's my own experience.

I've a personal friend whose best friend is a guy, and has been for several years.  She finds him quite attractive, physically and in all other aspects.  But, as fate would have it, they both (yes, both) feel that friendship is what their relationship is meant to be, and where it should stay.

Heck, she finds me attractive, and I her.  And while we do care about each other deeply, love just isn't in the cards.  You can't really plan these things.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

You'd be surprised how compatible people who are actual friends end up being. Really; when you actually know someone things like that are much easier. Getting to know a woman just because you want to be with them is rather asanine [and an easy way to set yourself up for disappointment/hurt], friendship should generally always be the motivation unless you tell them from the beginning that that is not your objective. [Which can work; you'd be shocked... But there's always those types.]

And no, I'm not saying that's how it always works, just in general when a guy considers himself a "friend zoned" person, there's a reason behind it. Women can be odd about stuff like that. Whenever I'd get feelings for someone I know; I'd tell them and move past or work on it; but truthfully, one of my best relationships was with my best friend of three years before that. Of course she ran away to Canada and broke my heart, but that's a different story.

It's just not as cut and dried as it seems with things like that, is all I mean. Just have hope, fellas. If a woman isn't coming your way, it's easier to move on and show that you're not clingy. Hell, sometimes that even motivates a woman to woo a man.

[Kagus]

Hell, sometimes that even motivates a woman to woo a man.

Yet another of the many ironies of passion...


Yes, I agree with you absolutely, a relationship works best and can only "really" work long-term if the people like each other, rather than just love each other.  A partner should, in a sense, be your best friend.  But, as you said, things aren't exactly cut and dried.  There are many different types of friends, and again trying to make any sort of clear, understandable definitions in a relationship between people is almost bound to fail on some level.

All I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't try to become someone's friend for the explicit purpose of one day becoming their lover.  You should try to become someone's friend because you want to be their friend.  Anything more "serious" above and beyond that will, and should, happen of its own accord if it does at all.


As an aside, I remember reading someplace that women have a built-in filtering mechanism that will, within a few minutes of meeting a new person, determine whether or not they are friend potential or lover potential...  And thus overshadow any other interactions after that determination is made.

Can't recall where I read that though...  Might just be talking out of someone else's arse.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I am also in agreement that the Friendzone is not really a thing, and if the internet gets any more petty and dense in its complaints about relationships the whole thing will collapse into a Baaaawwwww Singularity and destroy us all.

[Korbac]

Hell, sometimes that even motivates a woman to woo a man.

A partner should, in a sense, be your best friend.

But my bro's, dude! Come on. Who's going to go to the pub with me every other night? And play action rpg's until 5am? And go to rock clubs? And make whimsical threads about make believe games on forums of dwarves? And go to the gym? And Poultrygiest? And and and

And from that day forth Korbac knew he would never have a girlfriend.

EDIT: I currently have 2 (3 but one's away for the year) of these ultimate bros. Who needs a life partner when you've got ultra mates? 

[darkrider2]

As an aside, I remember reading someplace that women have a built-in filtering mechanism that will, within a few minutes of meeting a new person, determine whether or not they are friend potential or lover potential...  And thus overshadow any other interactions after that determination is made.

I firmly believe that apart from some biological differences, both sexes are mentally identical, they are just put under separate cultural/societal expectancies, which we've done a good job discussing in this thread.

For instance the myth that men's minds are dirtier, that one is DEAD WRONG.

So either the quoted doesn't exist at all, or it is inherent to both genders.

EDIT: On the friend zone thing, I can say that it does not exist in the sense of "I did these nice things and she owes me, but she's renigging on it", yeah that's just bullshit and obscenely shallow.

Technically speaking the friend zone is supposed to mean a relationship status where you are friends with each other but can never have sex with each other. By that logic all straight men have been putting all their male friends in the friend zone since the beginning of time.

That's just downright cruel.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm pretty sure that it's one of those PUA things, in other words, completely illegitimate and kind of creepy to boot.

[Kagus]

Hell, sometimes that even motivates a woman to woo a man.

A partner should, in a sense, be your best friend.

But my bro's, dude!

Hence "In a sense".  You'll always have your purely platonic best friend, but that's kind of a different category...  As mentioned, not particularly cut and dried.

As an aside, I remember reading someplace that women have a built-in filtering mechanism that will, within a few minutes of meeting a new person, determine whether or not they are friend potential or lover potential...  And thus overshadow any other interactions after that determination is made.

First (semi-proper) link I found on the topic:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1340868/Basic-instinct-Women-just-minutes-make-mind-Mr-Right.html