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[Aqizzar]

Anyway, if you want some more perspective from A Real Female Type Person Who Totally Actually Gets To Have Sex And Stuff Sometimes (I am married), ask away.

Well, if it's not too forward, I'd ask for a story of how one becomes ForeverAlone in the female world.

As trite as it sounds to say, I don't think anyone here is going to deny that on the whole the "meeting the opposite sex" thing is something men are expected to more proactive at, and certainly that's the societal pressure strongest behind the male side.  That if you don't go out and successfully hunt something down you're a failure.  Which leads to the generality of girls-avoiding-nerds since we've all met the guy that makes women among beta-males a lion's den situation.

So for the sake of a joke, against a world of the opposite sex ready to through fire just to not be slapped (as long as they don't have to talk to anybody), what is the female side of the ForeverAlone coin like?  (And I'm not even trying to make a point here, I just think it's a funny juxtaposition.)

[darkrider2]

@ Aqizzar: I wonder about that too.

One time we were trying to hook up my anime freak friend with some guy she liked, and the cliches came rolling out, she just wouldn't do it. And it wasn't until I saw it from someone else that I realized how much of a complete fool I was for thinking the exact same things about myself.

Speaking of skirtchasers, my own brother had a horde of girlfriends throughout his K-12 education, it was always a big downer for me, I always felt that I had to compete with "the king" in order to actually matter. But I look back and I realize, I had tons of opportunities, I just never acted on them due to fear of rejection, and when I think about them, I'm completely filled with regret.

Never let a good chance pass you by.

[Kagus]

The feminine side of the coin, as far as I understood it, is having to deal with a number of non-serious, desperate losers and the lies they spout in order to try and get into your pants and out of your life as quickly as possible; while being seemingly incapable of attracting the attentions of the guy you really do like, and not only being uncertain or too scared of what would make him notice, but knowing that you'll make some infinitesimal mistake and forever ruin your chances should you ever actually spend time with the guy.


Really, there are more similarities than one might assume when one's alone for a long period of time.  It's not "easy" for anyone really, although I would still opine that the men are expected to take more responsibility in the matter, due to our societal norms and history.

[Sensei]

I'd say, definitely start with female friends. Get to know some women, talk to them, ideally in a group where there's less pressure. Even or especially if there's no chance of romance involved. You'll get more comfortable with women in general and you might learn a thing or two. I'd also say the best relationships start out of a combination of dumb luck and a pre-existing friendly, platonic companionship, so just maximize the one half and the dumb luck will come on its own sooner or later... it only takes once, so one in a hundred or a thousand ain't bad.

[thryn]

Kinda confused how the idea that "all a girl has to do to get some is wait" could not lead to a bunch of female ForeverAlones carefully perfecting their cross-stitch technique while never, ever leaving the basement where their prince will inevitably eventually find them. I mean, if the prevailing theory is all you have to do to find love is nothing, then why wouldn't you do ... nothing?

That is not the whole story, though. The shit we get fed culturally tells us that to get a man (and you MUST GET A MAN) we must be pretty, and then rather a lot of us get to find out that we are not pretty, and probably will never be pretty, and are thus totally fucked. Couple that with the idea that everyone else is getting laid - because of course all women can get laid at any time - and you get a dry spell (or even just "being 16") turning rapidly into "Well if every girl on earth can get sex but me, I must be the MOST HIDEOUS SHE-BEAST IN ALL THE LAND." Ta-da: crippling insecurity = ForeverAlone. True of everyone, even if it's reached through different paths.

[Hanslanda]

I must be the MOST HIDEOUS SHE-BEAST IN ALL THE LAND."

This is being placed in the out of context quote thread immediately.

Also, having female friends is indeed a very good way to work your way toward a relationship.

[darkrider2]

(and you MUST GET A MAN)

I'm not a female but I've definitely sensed this before.

I'm also incredibly disturbed that the female flip of the coin seems to be 'make yourself the most attractive piece of merchandise in the store', or that that is somehow considered the cultural standard.

[MaximumZero]

I think I'm gonna be ForeverAloneGuy for a while. My situation is pretty bleak.

[thryn]

I'm also incredibly disturbed that the female flip of the coin seems to be 'make yourself the most attractive piece of merchandise in the store', or that that is somehow considered the cultural standard.

You and me both.

[Reudh]

Aye, tis the problem with a patriarchal society.. but that's a derail.

[Kagus]

That is not the whole story, though. The shit we get fed culturally tells us that to get a man (and you MUST GET A MAN) we must be pretty, and then rather a lot of us get to find out that we are not pretty, and probably will never be pretty, and are thus totally fucked.

There's a very dark, vile, inhuman part of me (that only recently started playing the new version of DF) that just had a thought pop into mind about how the Wicked Night Hags with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks always seem to manage to find a guy to spousify...  And thought that that was contextually funny.


Although, really, if you take a look at your band of friends; you'll find that it really is the Wicked Night Hag with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks that gets the action.

[darkrider2]

That is not the whole story, though. The shit we get fed culturally tells us that to get a man (and you MUST GET A MAN) we must be pretty, and then rather a lot of us get to find out that we are not pretty, and probably will never be pretty, and are thus totally fucked.

There's a very dark, vile, inhuman part of me (that only recently started playing the new version of DF) that just had a thought pop into mind about how the Wicked Night Hags with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks always seem to manage to find a guy to spousify...  And thought that that was contextually funny.


Although, really, if you take a look at your band of friends; you'll find that it really is the Wicked Night Hag with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks that gets the action.

Beware its deadly spittle?

That made me feel way dirtier than it should have.

[Hanslanda]

That is not the whole story, though. The shit we get fed culturally tells us that to get a man (and you MUST GET A MAN) we must be pretty, and then rather a lot of us get to find out that we are not pretty, and probably will never be pretty, and are thus totally fucked.

There's a very dark, vile, inhuman part of me (that only recently started playing the new version of DF) that just had a thought pop into mind about how the Wicked Night Hags with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks always seem to manage to find a guy to spousify...  And thought that that was contextually funny.


Although, really, if you take a look at your band of friends; you'll find that it really is the Wicked Night Hag with the bubbling rolls of lard and ichor-stained tusks that gets the action.

Beware its deadly spittle?

That made me feel way dirtier than it should have.

It should, you filthy filthy [insert gender here]!

[Kagus]

Remember to protect yourself with full coverage and a shield, or suffer a terrible syndrome.

...yeah, no, this is starting to get out of hand (DAMNIT).


I do recommend making friends with some girls (and the guys, for that matter).  I do *not* recommend making friends with some girls for the purpose of potentially having sex or a more "serious" relationship with them...  Friendship should be for friendship's sake, otherwise it can be destructive.  I'm not saying something won't happen, or that you shouldn't pick up on it if it does (and you honestly, truly think it's a good idea, rather than just snapping it up for the sake of nothing else being there at the time), I'm just saying you shouldn't get to know people and become their friend with an ulterior motive.

Love, feelings and relationships are all part of that group of things that just sort of "happens"...  Another very important concept to realize, understand and accept (this can be the tricky part) is that unless you're the odd one out on some astronomical odds, you're not going to meet the girl of the rest of your life on the first go.

Another important bit to remember is that that's not a bad thing.  For every relationship you have with every individual you have them with, you learn a bit more about emotions, relationships, how to understand and react to yourself and others; and you grow a bit more as a person.  You shouldn't expect a Princess Charming home run on the first swing; not only because it's *highly* unlikely, but also because you probably wouldn't know what to do with her if you did.


So just chill out, appreciate and develop your own mojo, follow the council of head, heart and gut, and take things as they come.  If you can approach things in a relaxed, calm manner as what they are when they are, you'll get a heck of a lot more out of it than you otherwise would.


Oh, yeah, and one piece of advice that my father gave me the complete opposite of:  Don't be/get intimate with more than one person at a time.  It *will* get complicated and spiral horrifically out of control.  Just a friendly heads-up.

[Aqizzar]

I do recommend making friends with some girls (and the guys, for that matter).  I do *not* recommend making friends with some girls for the purpose of potentially having sex or a more "serious" relationship with them...  Friendship should be for friendship's sake, otherwise it can be destructive.  I'm not saying something won't happen, or that you shouldn't pick up on it if it does (and you honestly, truly think it's a good idea, rather than just snapping it up for the sake of nothing else being there at the time), I'm just saying you shouldn't get to know people and become their friend with an ulterior motive.

Can I be the first to point out that this isn't always the issue?  I've had plenty of friends, including plenty of female friends.  I don't know how many guys are actually as bitter about the whole Friend Zone phenomenon as you hear, but it's never bothered me.  Especially since most of the time, it wasn't so much that I shot and missed as that in the course of ingratiating myself I found out they're already in a committed relationship of some form.  Pretty much all of them would later tell me that most guys upon hearing that would go "oh okay" and immediately walk away; I have a pathological aversion to being rude, and I figured hey I can always use more friends.

It was never some fear of the alien species known as "women" that stopped me from trying very hard or a general lack of social skills, just that good old overbearing fear of failure.

Kinda confused how the idea that "all a girl has to do to get some is wait" could not lead to a bunch of female ForeverAlones carefully perfecting their cross-stitch technique while never, ever leaving the basement where their prince will inevitably eventually find them. I mean, if the prevailing theory is all you have to do to find love is nothing, then why wouldn't you do ... nothing?

That is not the whole story, though. The shit we get fed culturally tells us that to get a man (and you MUST GET A MAN) we must be pretty, and then rather a lot of us get to find out that we are not pretty, and probably will never be pretty, and are thus totally fucked. Couple that with the idea that everyone else is getting laid - because of course all women can get laid at any time - and you get a dry spell (or even just "being 16") turning rapidly into "Well if every girl on earth can get sex but me, I must be the MOST HIDEOUS SHE-BEAST IN ALL THE LAND." Ta-da: crippling insecurity = ForeverAlone. True of everyone, even if it's reached through different paths.

That makes a lot of sense, the highlight disturbingly so.  A self-sustaining cascade of believing you've failed at your end of the social bargain, by virtue of the obvious fact that you're alone, and gets a little more obvious every time you think about it, which when you're alone is usually every hour on the hour.

I can't be, no, I know I'm not the only person who's ever seen the bitter irony in this.  That there's a bunch of dweebs of both genders sitting around out there, wondering where everybody else is and why they're not meeting them.  You might even doubt the existence of such similar people, figuring that your area just doesn't have them or you're nerdier than you even think you are, especially if you're male since the existence of male nerds is well documented but the female variety are pretty well out-of-sight-out-of-mind.  Being depressed makes it easy to believe that you really are the only true fuck up.

That's about when you hit on two realizations.  One is that, if these other hypothetical dorks are as reclusive as yourself, then statistically speaking yeah you're not going to see them very often.  And even if you do, you meet a weird phenomenon - dorks are not inherently magnetic, since by nature they're a little paranoid of any unknown human contact.  It never ceases to amaze me when I'll go to a shabby used bookstore and check out the fantasy-sci/fi section, and there will be people at least as dweeby as me orbiting around it, trying to make sure no one sees them go in, and if they're already in there when I arrive (and like Hell don't I look like I belong there) will hunch up and quietly step away.  We don't want to admit to being nerdy around strangers, even when by definition the strangers must be nerds themselves.  Nobody wants to be that obnoxiously loud nerdy-and-proud-of-it guy.  (The irony being that, like my Chuck Norris obsessed hambeast bro with no volume-control, they actually get laid.)

Which really makes me wonder about the other realization.  That if what you're looking for in an another person is understanding, as ultimately all people think they do and especially people who spend a lot of time rattling around in their heads, then surely what you're looking for most is an understanding of what its like to feel lonely and unworthy.  We as humans seem to be hardwired to be incapable of admitting this, or at least bitterly ashamed of it, even in the presence of people we can empirically expect to know exactly what we mean.

One of these days, I should start a dating site.  ForeverAlone.com, all ages welcome but specializing in 15-30, photos optional but sob-story and personal interests required, and they better be up to snuff.