Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hapah]

RL happened, post tomorrow.

[Hapah]

Alright, I'm back! And thanks for not posting everyone! I just absolutely LOVE trying to get more scraps of data for my argument and being completely ignored!

I believe that Flying Dice and Shakerag are the two scum in this game. I came to this conclusion based on how their interact with each other, and (to a lesser extent) how they vote. I'll detail it as much as I can below.

Note that Shakerag was MIA on vacation (I think it was vacation) until about page 7, so I didn't dig too much before that. To be honest, there's not a lot to go on D1 period. Both Flying and Shake manage to avoid suspicion the first day. There was exactly one question between them, and it was a softball question at that. It's D1 though, so I really didn't expect much. It is interesting how they didn't interact at all, though.

D2 is a little different story. They each come out guns blazing. They each pick out their respective target, and start laying into them (FD with a little more vigor). Even when Shake asks FD a question, he manages to include a jab at Deathsword.

I will admit that Deathsword did a very admirable job of digging his own grave. But they each have an almost single-minded focus on their target of choice. I also like how most of their questions to each other appear to be asked only to give a way to backpedal, or to strengthen one of their cases.

Spoiler: Just (click to show/hide)

Flying Dice: Why exactly do you feel BMC's vote on Deathsword was an OMGUS?  To me, it looks like the two of them were faffing about at first, Deathsword went paranoid-defensive and WIFOMy (IronyOwl's analysis of his posts around this point is interesting as well), dropped an FoS on BMC for reasons I can't really see, and then BMC voted Deathsword and included reasons for why.  What am I missing?  Also, you stated at some point D1 that Deathsword "hit the top of my list of suspicions" (#83).  What made him fall from the top position?

See above. He and Deathsword were going at each other for pretty much the entire RVS, but BMC didn't bother voting for Deathsword until he had FoSed him (and drawn an opportunist-voter onto BMC); he also tried to justify it by saying essentially "Oh, yeah, all that stuff earlier makes you look scummy, so have my vote.". He also cast that vote pretty much as soon as he saw the vote and FoS on him, and I felt that he targeted Deathsword because he was the root of the pressure on him.

Further clarification to Shakerag:
In short, I was pretending to be thinking about changing my vote to see if Deathsword would bend under pressure. He didn't (or at least not enough to draw my vote), therefore I kept pushing BMC. I wanted to see how he would react.

Spoiler: Like (click to show/hide)

Flying Dice: Honestly, as of right now, I'm not really seeing Chaos Armor as terribly scummy nor a bandwagon starter.  Looking back at early D1, I see newbie behavior, and I see that he possibly had a good point on BMC's claim of "being suspicious of Deathsword the whole game" ... because the game had been going for all of four hours at that point.  Do you think that's valid in context?

Looking back on it, I do, to a certain degree. I've been going over that stretch of time more carefully, and I believe that it could have been either newbish behavior or scummish behavior, hence why I unvoted. I'm going to need to reevaluate my thoughts on this carefully, but I'm suspicious enough that I don't want to simply drop it.

Spoiler: This (click to show/hide)

Shakerag and IronyOwl:

You've had your votes on Deathsword practically since the start of D2 and haven't been talking to him very much in the past few days. How certain of your suspicions are you; and are your suspicions of him primarily based on BMC flipping town after he and Deathsword went after each other? Incidentally, why have you two been (apart from a time around June 15th) pursuing the same person to such a degree?

If I'm voting for someone and not continuing to question them, then I'm pretty confident that they're scum.  BMC flipping town isn't a basis for my suspicions on Deathsword, but that helped to reinforce them.  I'm not going to go back and review IronyOwl's specific reasons, but I'd be inclined to assume that he's picking up on the same things that I am.

FD's characterization of himself taking fire here while he has a whole one vote doesn't help him either (and thanks for pointing it out Tir, I almost missed it). It's scum being over-sensitive to attention. And Shakerag, the hell is up with the entire second half of this post? You know better than that.

And at the start of D3, once the Cop got shot?

Seriously?  Damn.

Shit.

Yeah, I can feel the sincerity.  D3 opens with FD throwing another broadside at Chaos, and then Theo asks this question:

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

At which FD makes the biggest hedge post I've ever seen, AND tries to diffuse Tir's suspicion of  Shake in one go.

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

My perceptions? Yes, obviously, because I have more information. Though it was less the "Suspect the ICs' drum and more the 'Suspect Everyone, Regardless of Who They Are' drum. Anyhow I don't particularly regret doing so, though the story might be slightly different if it had lead to a mislynch. Possibly because the BMXXXIII IC-scumteam was still very fresh in my mind and I didn't want to let anyone be ignored. I'm not going to spread WIFOM by speculating on the reasons (if any) for the scum NKing IronyOwl, if that was what you were pushing for.

Tiruin: What makes Shake's statement so suspicious, I'm curious? I don't doubt that I've posted something similar in the past; new information on alignments often does shoot hypotheses full of holes, after all.

Anyway, that's what I've got. It's far from perfect, so if you've got something better then put it on the table. Post any feedback or questions, shoot holes in my theory, whatever. Just get in here and start posting!

[Flying Dice]

Forgot to refresh my vote for the new day. It still stands on Chaos Armor.

Note that Shakerag was MIA on vacation (I think it was vacation) until about page 7, so I didn't dig too much before that. To be honest, there's not a lot to go on D1 period. Both Flying and Shake manage to avoid suspicion the first day. There was exactly one question between them, and it was a softball question at that. It's D1 though, so I really didn't expect much. It is interesting how they didn't interact at all, though.

This is equal parts bullshit and related to the association fallacy. Two people are largely ignored in RVS (not unusual) and don't interact with each other much, therefore they are scumbuddies? The first is hardly something I could control, unless you suspect that everyone in the game except yourself is a sockpuppet. The second is coincidental (there were several people I hardly interacted with in RVS)--indeed, there are several that I still haven't interacted with, yourself included. So by that logic, you and I are also scumbuddies because we (well, I and your predecessor) didn't interact much. I know I'm not scum, so that alone puts a hole in this bit of fluff pretending to be a sound argument.

D2 is a little different story. They each come out guns blazing. They each pick out their respective target, and start laying into them (FD with a little more vigor). Even when Shake asks FD a question, he manages to include a jab at Deathsword.

I will admit that Deathsword did a very admirable job of digging his own grave. But they each have an almost single-minded focus on their target of choice. I also like how most of their questions to each other appear to be asked only to give a way to backpedal, or to strengthen one of their cases.

More of the same bullshit, with an added side of Too-Town fallacy. I'm scum because I scumhunt someone hard? As for the last, see the above. You're inventing relationships out of whole cloth based entirely on the fact that I'm not pressuring Shakerag heavily and haven't had too much interaction with him. Again, this logic is flawed, as by it virtually anyone in this game could be scumbuddies with anyone else; most of us have only really gone after one or two people, leaving fairly little pressure for others. To me, this says that you don't care about building a real case and just want to throw together something that might push us into a mislynch.

Incidentally, Extend, as most of us seem to be content to lurk through MYLO.

-snip-ed long list of quotes:
So the fact that I was able to provide reasonable rationale for my thoughts and actions means that I'm scum? What?

FD's characterization of himself taking fire here while he has a whole one vote doesn't help him either (and thanks for pointing it out Tir, I almost missed it). It's scum being over-sensitive to attention.

I already answered this

I didn't say anything about a "full assault"; my implication was more akin to a few stray shots zipping by overhead. I offered a more extensive explanation of my reasoning and thought process because my responses were being largely ignored when I responded with the bare minimum or with nothing but the end of my train of thought. Any reason why you're cherrypicking the least-relevant portions of my posts and misinterpreting metaphorical statements instead of scumhunting?

and I honestly don't need to change a single word.

And at the start of D3, once the Cop got shot?

Seriously?  Damn.

Shit.

Yeah, I can feel the sincerity.

And folks, this is why so many townies tend to lurk through MLYO/LYLO: Because someone will invariably attack them for being town or being honest. So Hapah, were you not upset that the cop got NKed, you scumbag?

D3 opens with FD throwing another broadside at Chaos, and then Theo asks this question:

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

At which FD makes the biggest hedge post I've ever seen, AND tries to diffuse Tir's suspicion of  Shake in one go.

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

My perceptions? Yes, obviously, because I have more information. Though it was less the "Suspect the ICs' drum and more the 'Suspect Everyone, Regardless of Who They Are' drum. Anyhow I don't particularly regret doing so, though the story might be slightly different if it had lead to a mislynch. Possibly because the BMXXXIII IC-scumteam was still very fresh in my mind and I didn't want to let anyone be ignored. I'm not going to spread WIFOM by speculating on the reasons (if any) for the scum NKing IronyOwl, if that was what you were pushing for.

Honestly, I didn't think it was that hard to understand. Here, I'll dumb it down:
1. Yes, my perceptions have changed because I have new data.
2. I was pushing for everyone to be considered suspect, not for ICs specifically to be targeted. They were mentioned specifically because of the tendency in BM to not suspect ICs of being scum, and that was happening here.
3. I refuse to spread WIFOM.

So in other words, three clear statements. Sounds like you're scraping the barrel for fluff to dress up as evidence.


In short, you built an argument out of the Too-Townie fallacy, "evidence" that could be applied to just about every pair of players still in the game, and a few dashes of smoke & mirrors. So sorry, try again!

Anyhow:
Everyone: We're on MYLO, people, stop lurking!

Chaos Armor: Not going to respond now that my argument is stated too concisely for you to ignore it and pick at meaningless fluff?

[Tiruin]

Inb4 Hapah and Flying Dice's posts. Separated due to clarity of format. 

FD\Tiruin
Sorry about that, got my names mixed up...

Why do you mix up our names?

Shakerag: I'd love to know what you were thinking when:

Seriously?  Damn.  I'll have to do a full reread now, as my theory was quite neatly shot down. 

I am wrinkling my brow at you, good sir, because I'm not sure what you're getting at.  I claimed you and Deathsword were scumbuddies, Deathsword flipped town, ergo you two can't be scumbuddies.  I thought that was obvious. 

What I'm getting at, was your statement and theorem on me here. I'm wondering how you even got to this conclusion logically, I'm curious as to why my question here was not acknowledged.

And what I want to know is why you chose

Seriously?  Damn.  I'll have to do a full reread now, as my theory was quite neatly shot down.

as the first statement of your post.

Next is the bolded part above, it's like a linking process, you're case on me was based on Deathsword's flip, and therefore if he did flip scum that makes me scum? What isn't obvious is that associative pattern. How and why?

Restate query: What basis do you have that links me with Deathy, and how does him being town mean I'm town? Unless, you know, of course.

[Chaos Armor]

Carrying my vote from yesterday on over. Flying Scum.

Chaos Armor: Not going to respond now that my argument is stated too concisely for you to ignore it and pick at meaningless fluff?

I'm sorry I have a life and have been digging potatoes, washing them, getting them ready to sell, and selling them.


Also, what is with your obsession with "fluff"? You seem to think that everyone's points against you are "fluff". But yet your arguments cannot be "fluff".


Flying Dice:

Summary of Chaos Armor's responses thusfar:
1. Blah blah I don't want to actually address his point so I'll just handwave it.

What point? I guess I missed it because of this fluff.

2. Hey look at all this fluff I can try and make a fake case out of.

I don't know why you consider anything besides your own cases fake or fluff. Is it because you don't have any counter arguments?

3. Bother doing anything beyond saying "Your arguments are invalid but mine aren't"? Hah!

Hypocrite. You just stated that all of my arguments were fluff or rather, invalid. You did the same thing to Hapah too. In fact, that's most of what you have done. Call other people's arguments fluff, not bothering to actually answer. You are doing the exact same thing that you accused me of doing, hand waving it away.

We can all do that, mate.

How about this:
You vote BMC for what (admittedly, much more so in hindsight) was a null tell because it could have been panicked newtown just as easily as it could have been panicked scum.

It was my RVS vote. Simple as that. You seem to ignore that every time I tell inform you.

You then make almost no further pressure on him (and much of that is the same sort of crap you're responding to me with; "You are wrong, answer my questions the way I want you to!") and seem perfectly content to leave your vote on him until he is eventually mislynched.

Not only do you not investigate him to any significant degree, you also avoid pressuring ANYONE else until I start pushing you and you get defensive.

In your opinion I didn't investigate him to any significant degree, but to me I did. I had enough information for me to think him as scum and keep my vote on him. In retrospect I probably should have asked more questions myself.

Actually, I was going to attack you D2. You appeared scummy enough to warrant pressure at the end of D1 so I decided to pressure you at the start of D2. Guess what results my pressure came up with, scum?

So yes, I think it could be argued that you started the bandwagon on BMC in that you made a vote which (while initially valid) went practically unsupported.

You're saying that I started a bandwagon and then sidelined. Yet the IC definition of starting a bandwagon is egging other players to start voting for that player. How did I start a bandwagon and sideline? bandwagon.

On top of that, you appear to have been sidelining for much of the game, avoiding drawing anyone's attention

How many times do I have to explain that I haven't been able to post as often as I would like because of RL and my internet. Also, I'm pretty sure I have been drawing attention. Considering I was the second choice for a lynch yesterday and one reason was because I had been "sidelining".

and instantly turning on the one person (myself) who did start seriously pressuring you about your negligent vote.

As I stated earlier, I had planned on pressuring you and you coincidentally attacked me.


Hapah:

I'm mildly suspicious of everyone, although Theodolus seems town and Flying Dice is definitely scum.

Reasons for Flying Dice being scum:
1. Accusing me of starting a bandwagon. Which isn't possible.
2. Failing to recognize that I didn't vote BMC for any reason at first. He was my RVS vote.
3. Stating that anything anyone says about him is "fluff".
4. Over sensitivity to being pressured. He becomes angry cornered when pressured.
5. Falsely accusing me on many occasions.
6. Generally following the crowd with his votes.


Theodolus:

Chaos Armor
You have to realize that with both BMC and now Deathsword turning up town that it would cast a lot of suspicion on you. I'm curious who your top two suspicions are and why.

How does Deathsword turning up town cast suspicion on me? I didn't want us to lynch him in the first place.

[Flying Dice]

Flying Dice:

Summary of Chaos Armor's responses thusfar:
1. Blah blah I don't want to actually address his point so I'll just handwave it.

What point? I guess I missed it because of this fluff.

The one you answered below. Are you blind, do you have short-term memory loss, or are you trying to muddle the waters?

2. Hey look at all this fluff I can try and make a fake case out of.

I don't know why you consider anything besides your own cases fake or fluff. Is it because you don't have any counter arguments?

When you address peripheral parts of someone's post while ignoring the core of their argument as a way to shift suspicion from yourself, that's building a case on fluff, at least from my perspective.

3. Bother doing anything beyond saying "Your arguments are invalid but mine aren't"? Hah!

Hypocrite. You just stated that all of my arguments were fluff or rather, invalid. You did the same thing to Hapah too. In fact, that's most of what you have done. Call other people's arguments fluff, not bothering to actually answer. You are doing the exact same thing that you accused me of doing, hand waving it away.

So in other words, you're saying I'm scum for doing the exact same thing you are? Why, by that logic, we must be scumbuddies and you're trying to bus me. 

I will also note that I answer every part of your accusations, while up until now you have ignored most of my posts whenever it was convenient to do so. My case against you is built on the facts that you sidelined for most of the game and voted based on minimal, RVS-based evidence. Yours is based on, what, the fact that I called you on your bullshit?

We can all do that, mate.

How about this:
You vote BMC for what (admittedly, much more so in hindsight) was a null tell because it could have been panicked newtown just as easily as it could have been panicked scum.

It was my RVS vote. Simple as that. You seem to ignore that every time I tell inform you.

You then make almost no further pressure on him (and much of that is the same sort of crap you're responding to me with; "You are wrong, answer my questions the way I want you to!") and seem perfectly content to leave your vote on him until he is eventually mislynched.

Not only do you not investigate him to any significant degree, you also avoid pressuring ANYONE else until I start pushing you and you get defensive.

In your opinion I didn't investigate him to any significant degree, but to me I did. I had enough information for me to think him as scum and keep my vote on him. In retrospect I probably should have asked more questions myself.

Actually, I was going to attack you D2. You appeared scummy enough to warrant pressure at the end of D1 so I decided to pressure you at the start of D2. Guess what results my pressure came up with, scum?

HAHAHAHA. More bullshit dressed up as a case. If you were going to attack me and thought I looked like scum, why didn't you? Because you're making this up on the spot to cover your ass. You had completely ignored me until I started poking you, then turned around and did your damndest to turn suspicion from yourself onto me. Your pressure? Hah, all you've been doing is ignoring most of my posts and pretending that you didn't behave the way you did.

And "It was my RVS vote" is hardly adequate explanation for not scumhunting. Yeah, a random vote is normal. Letting it lie with no further investigation isn't. You can spew all the crap you want, scumbag, but you're still guilty.

So yes, I think it could be argued that you started the bandwagon on BMC in that you made a vote which (while initially valid) went practically unsupported.

You're saying that I started a bandwagon and then sidelined. Yet the IC definition of starting a bandwagon is egging other players to start voting for that player. How did I start a bandwagon and sideline? bandwagon.

Maybe that was poor wording, but that was how I saw it. Your vote was the start of BMC's downhill ride, and it was downright irresponsible to not bother looking for reasons to keep your vote where it was. You were content to have your vote on someone, and you were happy to have a lynch, as long as it wasn't you. You didn't act like you cared who was lynched, and you didn't act like you were suspicious of me at all until I pressured you. All of that adds up to one thing in my eyes, scum.

On top of that, you appear to have been sidelining for much of the game, avoiding drawing anyone's attention

How many times do I have to explain that I haven't been able to post as often as I would like because of RL and my internet. Also, I'm pretty sure I have been drawing attention. Considering I was the second choice for a lynch yesterday and one reason was because I had been "sidelining".

and instantly turning on the one person (myself) who did start seriously pressuring you about your negligent vote.

As I stated earlier, I had planned on pressuring you and you coincidentally attacked me.

Bull. Shit. I've never been getting on you for lack of posts, I've been getting on you for lack of content. If I could only post once every few days, I'd cram as much content into it as I could. You were making posts with minimal investigation and content; in other words, you were trying to avoid saying anything incriminating while still looking like you were active in the game. Aka sidelining/active lurking.

And even more crap; I said it above and I'll say it again: You can claim all you want that you were suspicious of me, planned on pressuring me, yadda yadda yadda, but the fact of the matter is that you showed no suspicion of me, put no pressure on me, and gave no indication of any sort that you thought I was scum until after I started pressuring you. Make all the excuses you want, scum, but they certainly aren't fooling me.

[Jim Groovester]

[1] Shakerag: Tiruin
[2] Flying Dice: Hapah, Chaos Armor
[1] Chaos Armor: Flying Dice

Day ends Monday 9:00 PM MST.

[Tiruin]

Flying Dice.

Hrrrrm, wait. Could you clarify how you concluded these?

3. Bother doing anything beyond saying "Your arguments are invalid but mine aren't"? Hah!

Hypocrite. You just stated that all of my arguments were fluff or rather, invalid. You did the same thing to Hapah too. In fact, that's most of what you have done. Call other people's arguments fluff, not bothering to actually answer. You are doing the exact same thing that you accused me of doing, hand waving it away.

So in other words, you're saying I'm scum for doing the exact same thing you are? Why, by that logic, we must be scumbuddies and you're trying to bus me. 
[...]

So yes, I think it could be argued that you started the bandwagon on BMC in that you made a vote which (while initially valid) went practically unsupported.

You're saying that I started a bandwagon and then sidelined. Yet the IC definition of starting a bandwagon is egging other players to start voting for that player. How did I start a bandwagon and sideline? bandwagon.

Maybe that was poor wording, but that was how I saw it. Your vote was the start of BMC's downhill ride, and it was downright irresponsible to not bother looking for reasons to keep your vote where it was. You were content to have your vote on someone, and you were happy to have a lynch, as long as it wasn't you. You didn't act like you cared who was lynched, and you didn't act like you were suspicious of me at all until I pressured you. All of that adds up to one thing in my eyes, scum.

On the second, you do know that BMC's downhill ride was based on how he reacted, yes? BMC did act scummy, but in my honest opinion, all I could see from CA was that he did lack time to post, and (well, for me) posts in Mafia take time to organize due to analysis and observation.

What makes you believe that CA is content to have his vote on someone and therefore happy to have a lynch in that method?

What is your stance on a mislynch?

Chaos Armor

Hapah:

I'm mildly suspicious of everyone, although Theodolus seems town and Flying Dice is definitely scum.

Reasons for Flying Dice being scum:
1. Accusing me of starting a bandwagon. Which isn't possible.
2. Failing to recognize that I didn't vote BMC for any reason at first. He was my RVS vote.
3. Stating that anything anyone says about him is "fluff".
4. Over sensitivity to being pressured. He becomes angry cornered when pressured.
5. Falsely accusing me on many occasions.
6. Generally following the crowd with his votes.

On the sixth, does this pertain to what he did on D1, or on the proceeding days? What do you see in following the crowd with votes that makes that person scummy? He stated evidence on why he believed people were scum (though a bit frantic, I guess), but reasons were present.

Why does Theodolus, out of all the people here, seem town to you and why exactly?


Theodolus

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

Chaos Armor
You have to realize that with both BMC and now Deathsword turning up town that it would cast a lot of suspicion on you. I'm curious who your top two suspicions are and why.

On FD: Why ask what a person thinks of a person's roleflip?
On CA: Why tell him this, then ask him for his suspicions? How does both BMC and Deathy cast a lot of suspicion on CA?

Also, if that casts a lot of suspicion on him, why aren't you voting anyone?

[Hapah]

Flying Dice: I'm going to address your points by without quoting that whole mess, to avoid a huge wall-o-text. If you think I've done wrong (posts out of context, misquotes, etc) then call me on it. Can't promise I'll be able to post a lot, but I'll see if I can address them, at least.

• It was really just a precursor to my argument. I didn't want people to think I'd ignored D1 entirely, but there's wasn't much of interest going on. Way to make it seem like a big deal, though.
• I never said you were Too-Town, quit putting words in my mouth. You and Shake each picked out a target, and attacked your target. You're just a little more vocal about it. You also mis-characterized the relationship between you and Shake. It's not that you didn't interact (because you certainly did), it's the fact that your interactions only bolstered each others cases. Damn near every post between you two was either a lead-in to pouring more fuel on the fire or gave you an avenue to back away from a controversial statement.
• See above. Damn near every interaction between you and Shake has been to bolster each other's cases.
• I think Tir's comment hit the mark, despite what you say. Did you know you use more quantifying/waffling words (I don't part when you get nervous?
• Oh fun, an OMGUS. Thanks. And of course I'm bummed that the Cop is dead, but I don't have to make an effort to fake it. I thought it was funny that you and Shake (and only you and Shake) posted questions like that. And before you shoot back, this isn't some grand lynchpin of my case like I'm sure you'd make it out to be. It was an interesting (to me) note that got exactly one sentence.
• Hey, thanks for breaking it down, it's appreciated. I'll do the same: What are your thoughts on Shakerag? Considering you've written a small novel in BM terms since my post and haven't so much as glanced at him sideways, y'know, I'm curious.

It's all a bit of a moot point, though: I don't have to convince the person I'm trying to hang. I've got to convince Tir, Theo, and Chaos (I don't expect Shake's vote). So gentlemen:

Chaos: Looks like you don't need convincing, seeing that FD has been shooting at you since his opening D2 post. Please do give my post a read, though.
Tir: You've got a vote on Shake and a FoS on FD. Do you have reservations about lynching FD, or do you simply believe that Shake is the better lynch? Do you have any questions?
Theo: You've got some heavy thinking to do when you get back. I can't promise I'll write huge responses if you have any questions, but I'll try to at least hit the high notes and get the gist across.

[Tiruin]

Tir: You've got a vote on Shake and a FoS on FD. Do you have reservations about lynching FD, or do you simply believe that Shake is the better lynch? Do you have any questions?

Shake isn't replying.

Clarify the last two questions please? Any questions for-...?

[Hapah]

Any questions for me, or about my argument. If Shake and FD pile onto someone (Chaos, probably) they could get the game to a no-lynch as it stands now. Though....we wouldn't lose if it was a no-lynch, so I guess that's alright, in the grand scheme of things.

[Shakerag]

I'm here now; give me a few hours to whip up something constructive.

[Theodolus]

PfP

Theodolus

Flying Dice
What do you think of IronyOwl turning up Cop? You were hitting the 'Suspect the ICs' drum for a bit (#212, #201) and now one of them turns up dead and town. Does that change your perceptions at all?

Chaos Armor
You have to realize that with both BMC and now Deathsword turning up town that it would cast a lot of suspicion on you. I'm curious who your top two suspicions are and why.

On FD: Why ask what a person thinks of a person's roleflip?
On CA: Why tell him this, then ask him for his suspicions? How does both BMC and Deathy cast a lot of suspicion on CA?

Also, if that casts a lot of suspicion on him, why aren't you voting anyone?

On FD, I was curious what his feelings on the matter were. Despite what he said about it being more of a 'Nobody should escape suspicion' drum I felt like he was really hounding the ICs specifically. As such I thought he might have had some insights. Granted that probably wasn't the best way to go about asking that question...

On CA, it seemed to me that despite his extreme lack of time and whatnot, there was a noted lack of interest in who was lynched. With both BMC and Deathy being fairly certain that CA was scum that pulled a fair amount of weight when they both flipped town. However I've been thinking pretty hard on where I'm getting my suspicions and how I've been forming them. I've come to the conclusion that I've been using faulty logic on what are valid points and what's probably just newbie town behavior. I'd have cited his lack of pushing the RVS vote for more information and the lack of additional scum hunting afterward as proof before, but I'm fairly certain now that he wasn't side-lining and he wasn't trying to form a bandwagon, and that he was just being newbie town with a lack of time and will to post much.

Unfortunately, what this also means is that now I have a lack of solid suspicions. Which is a horrible thing to have on MYLO. I have a couple sneaking suspicions but I need to go back over the last couple days before I can say anything for certain. I'll be looking over everything again as I get time today and will try to have something a bit more extensive later today.

Also, because having the weekend be part of MYLO makes it difficult to post: Extend

[Tiruin]

Pre-sleep: Weekends don't count as day-time in a BM. 

Ends on...Tuesday, I believe? Extend anyway. It is Tuesday in GMT +8...

[Shakerag]

Shakerag
I'm curious what your feelings on Tiruin are now. Do you still feel like he's scum due to your prior stated reasoning, or did Deathsword turning up town make you change your mind on his alignment?

Deathsword turning up town makes me have to get a fresh read on Tiruin, so I'd say that his alignment in my mind changed to "undetermined".  That, of course, may change as I re-read his posts. 


Hapah: Yes, I was on vacation for a good chunk of D1.  As far as my interactions with FD this game are concerned, I haven't had cause to pressure him much because I have felt he's been playing fairly solidly.  I don't think any questions I've sent his way have been softballs.  Also, I like how you only quote part of my D3 opener, as I was referring to Deathsword being town, not IO being a cop. 


Tiruin: I'm getting a headache trying to parse all of your questions to me.  I'll try to state my line of thinking here as clearly as possible.  Borno name-dropped Deathsword D1 in part of a response to a question of mine.  It didn't seem to make sense why he would have mentioned DS at that point.  To me, that seemed like a newscum slip where you have your partner's name in your head and it pops out where it wouldn't seem to make sense to. 

abculatter_2 was (in my opinion, were I scum) a prime mislynch target because of his non-serious behavior.  Those kinds of people, in my experience, are the ones that are the easiest to get (mis)lynched.  So, suspecting you and DS to begin with, then seeing you vote abc, and then DS switch to abc ... it looked like coordinated behavior to me, especially since you called DS on his bullshit handling of questioning/voting abc without pressuring him too hard about it.  In my mind, if you and DS weren't scumbuddies, then you would have laid into him hard when he pulled the crap he did D2. 

And, to clarify, softballing to me is when you need to question/pressure someone (because otherwise it would look scummy of you to not do so) but you only do enough to keep up appearances.  You're not trying to get the person to crack and/or you're not trying to call much attention to them. 

Also, I'm not saying you're town because DS flipped town.  I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

If I missed anything specific, fire it at me again. 

 
[musing]
I'm noting that IronyOwl stated that his top suspicion at the end of D1 was Chaos Armor.  IronyOwl was a cop.  IronyOwl did not claim inspect results D2.  I want to believe IO inspected CA N1 and got a town result, but I also realize it's too easy to WIFOM myself about this as well.
[/musing]

More later, but I suppose to answer Hapah from early D2:
Flying Dice
and one of either Theo or Tiruin. 
I'll expound upon that later today.