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1: NC

2: NC and TR

3: NC, TR and Vanu

[Knight of Fools]

They are pretty ridiculous, though. Compared to the NC Rebel, they do a heck of a lot more damage. 250 versus 350 and 450. So, basically, three body shots with the snub nose give you enough to take out anybody who doesn't have anything better than Rank 1 of Nanoweave, and three body shots with the Commissioner will take out anything except maybe a heavy with full shields. With the Rebel, you need at least four, five if they even have Rank 1 Nanoweave.

Having to deal with them in CQC is a pain, too, especially if the guy with it is lagging pretty bad and strafe spamming. I'm all for pistols that can dish a beating, but I can't say I'm a big fan, balance wise.

The damage is fine, but the high hip accuracy should be toned down. If you want to be acceptably accurate with a heavy hitter like that, you should have to look down the scope. The recoil should be much higher (It's pretty easy to keep firing bullets and still hit stuff with it, even though the Commissioner has the highest vertical recoil in the game), and the recoil recovery should be lowered, or at least lengthened significantly (Seriously: If you jump with it, you're fully accurate again by the time you hit the ground). Even at range they're pretty deadly, their minimum damage still dealing as much as the maximum damage of the highest damage, non-Sniper Rifle primary weapons.

Other, lower damage pistols should be given a mod that lets them be burst or fully automatic. That would help them be a bit close to par, since we're making secondaries that give primary weapons a run for their money.

[palsch]

I haven't played with them myself yet, but just from the numbers and basic details they do seem at least somewhat balanced.

For starters, no silencer. A Rebel with silencer would make for a nice close-in weapon if you are sneaking up on people. You can't do that with the revolvers. Having a silenced secondary, especially a hard hitting one, is very attractive.

Then there is the reload system. The split reload is actually a disadvantage. On most guns you get a faster reload so long as you have a single shot left in the magazine (so you don't have to chamber a round after reload) hitting the long reload time only if you are completely empty. On the revolvers you hit the long reload even when you have two rounds left. And the long reload here is a full second longer than the short, so that's going to hurt. Not to mention that the short reloads are already longer than any other pistol reload time in the game. Makes them much less attractive as a clutch weapon.

They do look like fun almost as an alternative primary weapon playstyle - say, on an infiltrator carrying a sniper rifle and switching given the situation - but I don't think they have a clear advantage over the other pistols as general secondary weapons.

[Reyn]

Uhh, don't know about the rest of you folks, but usually when I take out my pistol it's either to finish off a injured beast thanks to my inaccuracy with the primary which led to a reload, or when I'm playing an infiltrator.

In both cases, the target doesn't need an entire clip of my pistol to go down(maybe with shitty fps), which means that the reloading factor for the pistol never gives me any gripes.

[Silent_Thunder]

Just a reminder that in 3 days this goes live, so save your SC up people!


In other news, I'm really loving the medic tool at second max level. Actually able to get people up in the open field at times now.

[Knight of Fools]

Blargh.

I hate the NC on Helios. The only reason we've captured all of the continents is because they're super zergy. Once an alert rolls around, we lose it half of the time because everyone's too busy using the zerg tactics to try and take a large base, rather than defend the front from the huge armor/air column that's rolling unmolested through our territory. We're lucky if we get more than 20%.

Seriously. It's sad.

[Neyvn]

Remind me... Why do people think that NC is op again???

Lets look at the recent Empire Rocket Launchers...

TR - Locks onto Air/Armour. Can fire Multiple Times. Does ok damage to Armour but great damage to Air, 3-4 will finish off any ESF.
VS - Charge for more damage, can charge without lockon, Fires without lockon, Almost INSTANT FIRE TO HIT. Can Hit anything that the player renders at any distance. FIRES IN A PERFECTLY STRAIGHT LINE.
NC - Guided Missile. Must standstill after firing. Must "exit vehicle" to leave a Rocket to stop guiding. Has a Max Travel Time of up to 300m (TRAVEL TIME) Huge arse turning radius. Slow. Can be shot down. Can be heard easily, has a BIGHT GLOW ABOUT IT...

Synopsis - NC shafted...

Lets look at General Faction Breakdown vs Lore.

TR Lore - High Capacity Magazines. Medium Damage/RoF. Max Suit has High RoF, Medium to Low Recoil. Most Agile ESF, Tank shoots TWICE. Tank Rounds have nearly Zero Drop when Anchoured. Spos to be about Alot of bullets.
TR Game - High Compacity Magazines. Medium Damage/RoF. Medium to Low Recoil. Max Suit has High RoF Medium Range,  Most Agile ESF, Tank shoots TWICE. Tank Rounds have nearly Zero Drop when Anchoured. Are a Lot of Bullets.

VS Lore - Low Capacity Mags, Low Damage HIGH RoF. Low Recoil. Max Suit has Medium RoF/Range,ESF Fires Rockets two at a time, Tank strafes and always forward facing where armour is high. Spos to be about Accuracy.
VS Game - Low Capacity Mags, Low Damage HIGH RoF. Low Recoil. ESF Fires Rockets two at a time, Tank strafes and always forward facing where armour is high. Don't need scopes to shoot at large distances cause you just point and click (in loose terms)

NC Lore - Highest Damage Weapons, Medium Mags, Low RoF High Recoil, Spos to be CQC Kings. Max Suit has Shotguns. ESF has Shotguns, Tank has High Front Armour and Shotgun Secondary. All Vehicles have high Armour. Spos to be hit hard and Shotguns.
NC Game - High damage ON FIRST SHOT ONLY. Medium Mags. Low RoF Superhigh Recoil. RoF wins CQC not damage. Max Suit only has Shotguns as main weapon choice (OMG OP TOO MUCH IN CLOSE RANGE... No Shit...) ESF has Shotguns and Armour Levels equalized after launch. Tank has lower rear armour then normal by about 2% or such and secondary has shotguns. All armour buffs were removed at launch due to "OPness". Every Faction has Shotguns, out spammed by TR, Maxsuit is useless outside of 15m range...

Sorry but, the ONLY thing I could consider NC being OP with is the damn Maxsuit in CQC, CAUSE IT HAS SHOTGUNS. Outside of that its a sitting duck. Heck the fact that everything about our Vechiels screams SHOTGUNS, you would also think that NC would be the only faction that should have Shotguns, NOPE. Out classed even there tbh...

What am I missing that makes NC op? Is it cause NC players had to learn how to shoot all over again before we could be dangerous that when we finally started kicking arse the TR and VS were like "Oh shit, they can bite back when we poke them with our sticks, better put them down." Every time I see a "NC MAX IS OP" thread or complaint I feel like pointing out everything that is fucking OP about TR and VS which is part of their damn norm that every player starts with and everything like that. The list is larger for TR and VS compared to NC...

[Tack]

That's one issue I have.

Scattermax and Haxmax is incredibly powerful in biolab fights. And nowhere else.

Mercy max is incredibly powerful in biolab fights. And everywhere else.


I, personally have never played VS, but the fact their AT weapon has no noticeable drop is a bit painful.

[Chosrau]

VS - Charge necessary for reasonable damage, charging cannot be aborted, can charge without lockon, Fires without lockon therefore needs to be aimed, has no scope making it a pain to aim at targets that are far away, Almost instant fire to hit. CANNOT hit everything that the player renders at any distance. STRAIGHT BRIGHT GLOWING LINE tells everyody where you are. Chargeup sound announces your presence to everybody.
NC - Guided Missile. Must standstill after firing. Can "exit vehicle" to leave a Rocket to stop guiding. Has a Max Travel Time of up to 300m (TRAVEL TIME) Actually has a turning radius. Can fire from cover. Slow. Can be shot down. Can be heard easily, has a BRIGHT GLOW ABOUT IT...

fixed that for you

[Neyvn]

VS - Charge necessary for reasonable damage, charging cannot be aborted, can charge without lockon, Fires without lockon therefore needs to be aimed, has no scope making it a pain to aim at targets that are far away, Almost instant fire to hit. CANNOT hit everything that the player renders at any distance. STRAIGHT BRIGHT GLOWING LINE tells everyody where you are. Chargeup sound announces your presence to everybody.
NC - Guided Missile. Must standstill after firing. Can "exit vehicle" to leave a Rocket to stop guiding. Has a Max Travel Time of up to 300m (TRAVEL TIME) Actually has a turning radius. Can fire from cover. Slow. Can be shot down. Can be heard easily, has a BRIGHT GLOW ABOUT IT...

fixed that for you

Truth be told, those downsides are nothing mate, fucking nothing compared...
I have played VS to test out the rocket, I could hit a target nearly across the AV Trainning with it. The line means nothing cause it dissipates quickly, only those looking for it can find ya, even then. The charging sound matters little when your miles away from them. Dumbfiring a Nearly zero drop launcher is 100x better then locking onto something...

[palsch]

Eh, I don't know about that. I've definitely tracked down some VS HAs based on the light and sound of the Lancer.

And I hate to be a killjoy, but some numbers. Not that much to go on, but I think the story they tell is fairly intuitive.

The Phoenix gets the most vehicle kills due to it's outright damage levels (bigger damage spike always means you are more likely to get the last hit). It's somewhat safer to use than the Lancer (equally obvious where you are, just easier to stay in cover during use) but strategically used in more direct confrontations than the Striker so you will still die more often than TR. Slow firing, so not the greatest cert farming weapon ever.

The Lancer is extremely effective when it comes to outputting damage, but less strategically valuable and less likely to get outright vehicle kills. This makes it less popular but with an overall higher damage output (and cert take) per user.

The Striker is largely an Annihilator replacement, even less likely to get outright kills and mostly useful in mass fire, area denial tactics. Guaranteed but low damage output, cert take close to the NC balanced along faction philosophy lines.


EDIT: while I'm talking about rocket launchers, the new Shrike reload animation bugs me. It looks cool and all, but it also looks like it has finished about half a second before it actually does. I've switched away thinking it's already reloaded more times than I care to admit, making me sit through the reload again once I switch back, and once tried to leave cover and fire only to completely mess up the timing and get taken down before it's ready.

[Neyvn]

Wait, your saying that because the Pheniox kills more means its the better weapon???
Those Numbers are faulty. There is no common factor that can be measured by. If the number of people using the damn thing was equal then you could say something but I very much doubt that the Pheniox would be anywhere near the top. There is no way you can use that statistic thing for anything to prove anything at all...

People need to stop doing this. If something has no COMMON FACTOR. You can not compare anything at all to something else.

[bluejello]

the Phoenix is a camera-guided missile, it can be far more accurate at its max range than the VS one, which for some reason does have some inaccuracy when scoped, or at least it did.

Also, it is one thing to hit a non-moving target and another to hit a moving one, as the VS ESRL has a bullet travel time, yes, it is very fast but it is not a hitscan weapon.

[Neyvn]

the Phoenix is a camera-guided missile, it can be far more accurate at its max range than the VS one, which for some reason does have some inaccuracy when scoped, or at least it did.

Also, it is one thing to hit a non-moving target and another to hit a moving one, as the VS ESRL has a bullet travel time, yes, it is very fast but it is not a hitscan weapon.

FAR MORE ACCURATE!?!?!
The thing will self destruct as soon as it hits 300m, that means that it will do no damage, not hit anything or anything like that. Its MAX RANGE is Zero Damage. Its turning Radius is fucking slower then fuck, taking forever to turn or even move higher or lower. Do you think we can shoot from the ground to the top of a biolab or something...
That stupid arse VS Launcher is too powerful for its own good, your just a speck on our screens when your shooting at our tanks with it...

[palsch]

Wait, your saying that because the Pheniox kills more means its the better weapon???

Erm, no. The only word I used to describe any of them was balanced. I was just trying to go from the impressions people get of the weapons and their basic statistics/mechanics to the actual effects these have on the battlefield, which is all I really care about. I'm using those numbers, what I've seen in game and what I've seen in videos/posts elsewhere to try to work out how the weapons are being used and what that means about faction balance. Long and short of it, they seem to have a reasonable asymmetric balance going.

As an exclusive NC player I certainly don't think NC are overpowered. I actually think balance is pretty good right now, with the possible exception of the Reaver being straight up worse than the other ESFs. You could make an argument for the Vanguard deserving a buff, but I feel it's nearly balanced if you have a gunner in the secondary weapon, with any secondary and I think the imbalance there is mostly the Prowler still being a great AI platform.

[Jim Groovester]

Remind me... Why do people think that NC is op again???

They outnumber me and have the Gauss SAW.